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Oh as an aside. If you're doing construction for your hobby, and your hobby isn't construction then you may well have gone off the deep end!

I have no idea if I'm ever going to be releasing tracks commerically again. I'd love to, but if not I want a room I can grow old, fat and happy in. :-)

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd I'd love to, but if not I want a room I can grow old, fat and happy in. :-)

Beautifully said.

quote:

Originally posted by jahnlay Polystyrene is porous, just the air gaps are very small, do some research and you'll see.

Absorbing Sound is not just a matter of porosity. In fact is's true that polysyrene has a low structure factor, which means that there is a lot of air enclosed in a defined volume of material. But porositiy is not to be confused with a low structure factor. For a material to be porous it also has to have a low air flow resistance (? german: Str�mungsresistanz)... you should be able to blow rigth through the material... well... kinda

Hey Diginerd,
This is really interesting stuff.. I know people dream of things like this but when I get a place of my own, I'm going to convert a loft into a studio so I'll be keeping an eye on this thread.

Best of luck!

Thanks for the support..


Ok here's some chicken scratch drawings.

1st up Floorplan:-



And here's how I plan to build the walls, once I rip off the panneling. The scribble is rockwool.

Say goodbye to the window....

1st of all put up black plastic so from the outside nothing looks too untoward...




Next put up a piece of 1" ply and fix and fill (Great stuff) around the edges.



Finally rip off the chintzy wooden panneling, put up a second piece of Ply (packign the gap between the two panels with rock wool, seal that in too and coat the whole lot in Dry Lok. Add some hydraulic cement to seal up all the cracks around the windows whilst we're at it.






Next up, destruction of the Power panel closet and the first lot of studding is going to go up..

Are you going to make hardcore ?
You`ve wrecked that place before you began.

Lol


______
never the less, you can make a nice place of it.

You should see the mess I made when I trashed the closet and ripped all the panneling off the walls..

So, this weekend was productive.

Finished ripping out all the panneling on the walls, ripped down the closet containing the breaker board, painted the window wall with sealant, got the studing up on the window wall (And moved a power cable), & packed the gaps between studs with rockwool

I also finished packing out the ceiling with rock wool, and sealed up all the holes. I also decided to fill the gaps between the wooden slats with an additional layer of sheetrock (For mass).

Unfortunately all that condenses to two pics!





I do promis I'll get around to posting some pics and graphs of my models explaining the method behind my madness.

Also at some poitn I suppose I need to consider patchbay design too.

Nice work.

Just two things:

Why not close the window with concrete ore bricks? Those would give you way better sound insulation.

Why cover the whole wall with another layer that basically does nothing more than take away some space? Wasn't your room below the ground up to the lower edge of the window?

1. I have to leave the option of at some point restoring the window. Replacing the window would have been permit hell), so my sealing although looking pretty brutal is considered "Temporarary"!

Also the way I've sealed it is pretty effective, neither one of the 1" boards is connected to the same timber frame mounted to the wall, and there is an air gap half packed with rockwool.

2.

A) I needed to reduce the dimensions of the room.

B) Once there is an airgap infront of the rock wool and 2 layers of sheetrock infront of that the whole wall acts as a LF Absorber (As will the others).

At the end of that I should be in the fortunate position of only having to damp mids and highs in the rooms using foam (ie the infamous eggcrate foam that everyone considers as treatment). LF which is the usual problem in this kind of space is being taken care of by room construction. No need to in-room bass traps.

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd A) I needed to reduce the dimensions of the room.

Why is that?
Reduced dimensions will raise the lower cutoff of the room response.

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd B) Once there is an airgap infront of the rock wool and 2 layers of sheetrock infront of that the whole wall acts as a LF Absorber (As will the others).

Right, but membrane or panel absorbers are effective only in a very small range. Building them without proper planning will likely cause more low frequency problems than cure.

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd (ie the infamous eggcrate foam that everyone considers as treatment)

Using plain acoustic foam is more effective than the eggcrate types. But that's an old argument

A) Because by tweaking the dimensions I got to make the trade between cutoff and modal response.

Given the dimensions I had to start with I'm shooting for 85" high, 105" wide, and 157" Long as the overall inside "Box".

It's not quite accurate (nor is it anywhere near as big as I'd like), I'll will have to have a small protrusion for an new Power cabinet, and a couple of recessed doors.

As an aside, I'm going for 1 hour rated solid core fire doors as they're much cheaper than dedicated accoustic ones.

B) Aware of that, hence mucho modelling prior (And a fair amount of discussion)

C) I was joking.. We'll see what it needs when it goes up. :-)


Below are some modelled responses.

This one is the raw untreated room (With wall construction as described)



And What CaraCad Has to say about it:-



Here's with some Accoustic foam scattered around the model



and again CaraCAD's Take



Of course until it's built we'll not know the accuracy of the model, but I'm pretty sure it will be close enough to tweak in.

My main concern is bass trapping, and this overall build handles that. Mid and HF Absorbtion / diffusion comes later.

More studding tonight.. :-)

This is taking some time.. :-)

Most of the studding is up on the long wall, hoping by the end of the weekend to have all the insulation in place, the duct in and possibly some sheetrock up on the first wall.

I look like I may have scored 45 Pieces for free which can't be bad!!

They just finished building out a new cafeteria at work and these were left over, slightly damaged pieces. Since 2/3 of the sheetrock I'm going to use is going to be hidden this could work out really well.

This is taking some time.. :-)

Most of the studding is up on the long wall, hoping by the end of the weekend to have all the insulation in place, the duct in and possibly some sheetrock up on the first wall.

I look like I may have scored 45 Pieces for free which can't be bad!!

They just finished building out a new cafeteria at work and these were left over, slightly damaged pieces. Since 2/3 of the sheetrock I'm going to use is going to be hidden this could work out really well.

In terms of room acoustic treatment, I would suggest a few things...

-make the studio space rectangular, rather than cubic, as cubic rooms have far too many modes to deal with and are a mess in terms of acoustic value in general.

-considering the inherent costs, don't bother with floating the room in the sense of neopreme support with cement/wood on top. It would require a wealth of other work to have the rest of the room's treatments live up to the isolated nature of the floated room concept.

-to get rid of your cable mess and allow for acoustic treatments, I would suggest just as you brought up woth your first chicken scratch drawing... to hand the cables inside a cable duct in the ceiling. Try to figure out your best workable number of inputs/outputs possible at one time for your console and computer interfaces. From there, you'll know what kind of audio snake you'll need.

-A largely ignored part of home studio design is HVAC. Keep ventilation as much as possible (both you and your gear take value in CLEAN, quality air. Insulate where the air ducts lie in the walls and ceiling using some foam tubes and such inexpensive insulating materials to avoid rattling and ricketting ducts.

-Revolve your designs around your ideal listenning position. Your console, computer, patch bay and rack gear should revolve around your working habits and not the other way around.

-What's under the stairs? Take advantage of the space under the stairs, and work around and support structure in there. It's a great place for power and HVAC/cooling conditionning equipment.

-take a measurement of the rectangular space in the basement (I'm talking 100% rectangular) and disclude the stairs. Post the measurements here and I'll work up some dimension, treatment, and design suggestions. I love attacking a home studio space. I designed a space for my final project in college for this type of stuff (audio engineering)

-post up these measurements...
computer system desktop space required, monitor dimensions, console dimensions, rack (rectangular) space, projected space for keyboards, etc.

-lastly... $2000 is a strict and very doable budget, but with the right DIY creativity and throughtful choices at the hardware store, you can make a shweet studio space. I was recently thinking up ways to turn half of my basement bedroom into a production space with a $500 budget for treatment and structure alone.

quote:

In terms of room acoustic treatment, I would suggest a few things... -make the studio space rectangular, rather than cubic, as cubic rooms have far too many modes to deal with and are a mess in terms of acoustic value in general.

Exact room dimensions were a key part of my thinking long before I got to picking up the first tool. Dimensions are in my previous post, but I'll repeat them here:-

85" high, 105" wide, and 157" Long

This is as non-correlatory as I could get whilst keeping the room a reasonable size.

As an aside, technically a cubic room has the same number of modes as a cuboidal one, it's just that the ratio of intervals between them that makes a cubic room undesirable for accuracy. ;-)

But point is well made for others reading this. the goal is to have the dimensions o your room be as mathematically dissimilar as possible.

ie, Room ratio of h:w:l of 1:1:1 (a cube) is extremely bad news, 1:2:2 (Square room) is also awful, 1:2:1.5 is also bad (Exact ratios) is ungood too.

There's lots of stuff on this out there, if you're interested go read, thought he maths can get ugly quick.

Also the bigger the room the better (to a point), unfotunately my half basement limits my options, but can still be made reasonable.

quote:

-considering the inherent costs, don't bother with floating the room in the sense of neopreme support with cement/wood on top. It would require a wealth of other work to have the rest of the room's treatments live up to the isolated nature of the floated room concept.

Isolation serves two purposes.. Sound in (Not bothered in this case) and Sound out (Very bothered in this case). I don't want to be waking people up in the middle of the night when my 808 boom goes off in the middle of the track!

Many of the "Ideal" solutions are either very costly, or impractical in this space (Lack of height), or both.

I'm going for as many boundaries as I can (Sheetrock > Air > RoockWool > Floor boards) vertically. Sound proofing (as opposed to room treatment) implies non transmission of vibration. that can be done by floating, or large amounds of mass (In this case 3 x 1/2" sheetrock). Each layer needs to be fully sealed (Tape & Joint compound) for it to have real value.

In addition, the walls and ceiling should all not touch, but be caulked and left to vibrate independantly. Not sure how well I'm going to do with that, but we'll see. :-)

quote:

-to get rid of your cable mess and allow for acoustic treatments, I would suggest just as you brought up woth your first chicken scratch drawing... to hand the cables inside a cable duct in the ceiling. Try to figure out your best workable number of inputs/outputs possible at one time for your console and computer interfaces. From there, you'll know what kind of audio snake you'll need.

the ceiling duct is for screens, keyboards, mic and whatever desktop units I have lying around. 4" duck will be tight for the amount of signal cabling going to the desk. Damn I wish everything was on fiber..

Anyway, if you look at the plan, I'm going to build the racks into one wall. This will remove most of the clutter from the studio. I do have to knock a duct through the partition wall for the cables from the rack to the console (ie there are two sets of cabling ducts in the room).

Looking around my hardware store I see that Toilet rings make great duct openings in sheetrock! Think I'll use those for this.

http://remodelist.com/product.php?productid=38483

As for Snakes, without thingking too hard I need at least the following to / from the desk:-

24 Analog ins
12 Inserts
12 Aux Sends
8 Aux Returns
8 Bus Out
8 Bus In
Assorted 2 track returns
Assorted monitoring and master outs
3 x TDIF (24 Digital I/O)
6 x ADAT (24 Digital I/O)

That's a pretty hefty chunk of cabling!

And of course doesn't include the outboard FX, Insturments and assorted goodies in the racks.

quote:

-A largely ignored part of home studio design is HVAC. Keep ventilation as much as possible (both you and your gear take value in CLEAN, quality air. Insulate where the air ducts lie in the walls and ceiling using some foam tubes and such inexpensive insulating materials to avoid rattling and ricketting ducts.

Under control, but not ideal.

Cheapest (but not the quietest) method is a spilt (2 unit) aircon mounted to one wall in the studio. This has a compressor outside, and a fan / heat exchanger inside. No mucking about with large bore, low velocity ducting. It also helps with audio leakage nicely.

My other opion is to take a feed off of the central air unit and put a vent in ont he partition wall.

That partition wall is going to be might useful, as I can deliver services to the back of it with impunity. I don't care if there is a isable duct on the far side of the wall.

quote:

-Revolve your designs around your ideal listenning position. Your console, computer, patch bay and rack gear should revolve around your working habits and not the other way around.

This is mostly true. Give that ideally the best mix position is about a third of the way down the longest dimension (for avoidance of modal nulls which are a fact of life) I need to work where my gear will live in relation to that spot.

Also if I want to wallmount the racks I only have a limited area of the wall I can put them in due to two columns holding up the house (No, I AM NOT MOVING THEM!) :-)

I have a pretty decent idea of how this will work in practice. I will need a rolly chair to move from side to side when working solo, but that is unavoidable if I want there to be enough space for two people to reasonably fit.

quote:

-What's under the stairs? Take advantage of the space under the stairs, and work around and support structure in there. It's a great place for power and HVAC/cooling conditionning equipment.

Under the stairs is going to be packed with rock wool and will act as a substantial trap. In addition sice the construcion of the stairs is far from soundproof I need to prevent leakage as much as possible up them and into the house. Good idea though..

quote:

take a measurement of the rectangular space in the basement (I'm talking 100% rectangular) and disclude the stairs. Post the measurements here and I'll work up some dimension, treatment, and design suggestions. I love attacking a home studio space. I designed a space for my final project in college for this type of stuff (audio engineering)

85" high, 105" wide, and 157" Long. These dimension are actually smaller than what is available (With the exception of the height which is all I have). It's not too late to tweak them a little (A couple of inches either way), but were picked after a bunch of time sat working on room modes. If you can come up with something better though i'd be glad to see the results..

There will be a partition wall up blocking off the stairs with a 1 hour firedoor at the bottom in the same plane as the wall.

quote:

-post up these measurements... computer system desktop space required, monitor dimensions, console dimensions, rack (rectangular) space, projected space for keyboards, etc.

Console (d8b) will be sat on a cutdown Ikea Jerker. Computer screens will sit on a Jerker Desk (Not the adjustable one). Racks are going in the right wall when you are looking at the speakers.

1 keyboard will be infront of the racks. I know that cuts my manipuable rackspace by about a 1/3, but with a planned 84u going in I think I can live with that.. The wall next to the stairs is slated for decks, but not right now (I am already planning on embedding cabling in the wall to tie them to the patchbay.

quote:

-lastly... $2000 is a strict and very doable budget, but with the right DIY creativity and throughtful choices at the hardware store, you can make a shweet studio space. I was recently thinking up ways to turn half of my basement bedroom into a production space with a $500 budget for treatment and structure alone.

I got the free sheetrock. That's saved about $600 right there.

Studs are about $3 each, but I'm muching through them like candy.. :-).

Joint compound and the sandpaper is going to add up too though. Effectively I'm building three rooms (Remeber three layers of sheetrock!)

The really expensive parts are going to be all the fixtures and fittings (Outlets, BX cabling, track lighting (I want track lighting!!!) dimmers, doors & Handles (Doors are around $120 each and I need 3).

Paint and carpet shouldn't be too bad, not sure how much the trim will be but hey, corss that as I go.

Oh and the rack strip is free. I cannibalized a Compaq server rack and removed the front and rear rails to give me the racking for the wall.

Ayway thanks for your commetns and keep 'em coming!

Holy crap that was a big post.. Covered a lot of gound though.

Sorry guys!

For the doors try to find some cheap light wooden doors, remove the filling and fill up with fine sand.. should be a little cheaper than the fire doors with nearly the same effect.

According to Bolt (Bolt, R.H., Note on Normal Frequency Statistics for Rectangular Rooms, J. Acous. Soc. Am. 18, 1 (July 1946) p. 130-133) your room dimensions could be further improved with a length of about 135"-144". This would of course also affect room cutoff.

Got the room to 142" long.. Not too shabby..

Also lots of construction over the last couple of days:-

Sealed up the long wall:-





And built studding and insulated the long wall:-





The black pipe running vertically is the end of the cable duct running accross the ceiling.

Finally here's the lurverly main breaker panel that used to live in the big closet.. The loose power cable is going to go to the outlets in the stusio, and is NOT live.

its comng on well! are you doing it all yourself or do you pay sparks, builders etc?

Digi, as soon as I get my monitors you are so going to have to help me sort out my room acoustics because frankly, they eat donkey nuts.

I thought of getting some aurelex panelling but if I was honest about it, I havent got a clue how to set them up and have no idea whether they work better than DIY sound insulation. They cost muchos $$$ as well

I'm doing everything myself, I'm not to shabby in the old handiwork department. :-)

The only bit I get slightly nervous about (even though I fully understand it) is mucking about with the main breaker board.

That is :-

a) Very dangerous, and will easily kill if done wrong

b) Very dangerous, and will easily kill if done wrong

c) Very dangerous, and will easily kill if done wrong

In short don't try this at home...

Oveall this build has been very rewarding so far..

maybe some rubber shoes come in handy.

I have some gloves, but still I'd rather not touch.. :-)

Between causing ruckuses in other threads I've got my first two bits of sheetrock up and the first set of studding for the partition wall.



Mounting the racks is going to be fun.

I'm planning on placing a wooden 2 x 3 vertically behind each of the steel studs that are going to have the rack strip screwed to for additional strength and load bearing capabilities..

quote:

Originally posted by Diginerd I have some gloves, but still I'd rather not touch.. :-)

check for holes first :-P
maybe use two pair

or more, i don`t want your last performence to be grease lightning


it`s electrifying

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