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-- Tips & Low Prices, or No Tips & Higher Prices
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Originally posted by simms327 no, i haven't served, but i see your point. like all arguments, it depends on where you work, and what the arrangment is. The place I worked was crappy. I left after a month, and got a non-service job. the previous post was a vent...

i could tell. It's all good. I've seen it from your point of view too, and I think that restaurants that depend on a tip-out for their kitchen staff are taking a cop-out, and it shouldn't be allowed. Just pay them properly. They work HARD. I don't think I could do it, but that being said, having to smile and serve someone who has just told you that you suck... is pretty hard too.

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Originally posted by Enraptured Actually... you would think so... but the longer I do this, the more I realize that people will tip EXACTLY what they were going to tip, more or less regardless of the service they receive.

maybe you see this often, but honestly, not ONCE have i walked into a restaurant with a pre-determined tip amount.

and in regards to coat check, all they need to do is flash a smile, ask me how my night is going, and be pleasant, and they get a toonie.

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Originally posted by Sasha oh shit. anyone studying economics? there's a VERY good explanation on how tips are beneficial to the Economy.

They reduce the operational costs (overhead) of businesses by allowing them to pay their employees a lower wage. This effectively transfers part of the cost of labor from the business to the consumer, without a corresponding increase in the price of the goods sold.

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Originally posted by simms327 ^^ its crap though, cause you in the coat check do exactly what cosmic_fur says you do. take a coat, and hang it up. whoop de fuckign do i worked in a kitchen in a busy restaurant, and the kitchen got 10% of the total monthly tips (and thats even if the waiters reported it). we worked WAY harder than the prissy short skirt-ed boobs hanging out smiling waitresses and got paid the same. A junior line cook makes the same as waiting staff (At least in BC) next time you are in a restaruant and get good service, think about the people making the food - thats a MUCH tougher job than the waitress. the waitress/waiter just smiles and brings it to you.

ok wow,

I never said that the kitchen staff didn't work as hard or harder, nor did I know that you never got tips (having never worked in one before.) My sister-in-law is a chef so I can understand how hard you guys work. I was basing my reply on what I know.

Now on another note, just to let you know, it was not just taking a coat a hanging it up... I worked my ass off everytime I was behind there. Moving coats around to make more room, and making sure that nothing got lost... Not to say that that never happened as I am sure most of you remember NYE 2005. I would work from 12:30 am - 10:00am (sometimes later) every weekend. Same when I was behind the bar.

As well the people upfront serving and what not have to deal with the customers. Do you know how many times people would yell at me or throw shit at me. Really not fun. So getting tips throughout the night basically made me come back every weekend.

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Originally posted by simms327 ^^ its crap though, cause you in the coat check do exactly what cosmic_fur says you do. take a coat, and hang it up. whoop de fuckign do

correct me if im wrong but dont they also make sure that nobody steals your stuff?

dont you think that somebody who will sit all night long (especially at old boa where party would start at 1 and end 10-11-12-1-2) deserves something little extra?

tipping bartenders and waitress is very simple. you are paying for the service, better tips = better and faster service.

i dont see a problem with tipping at all.

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Originally posted by TJB ok wow, I never said that the kitchen staff didn't work as hard or harder, nor did I know that you never got tips (having never worked in one before.) My sister-in-law is a chef so I can understand how hard you guys work. I was basing my reply on what I know. Now on another note, just to let you know, it was not just taking a coat a hanging it up... I worked my ass off everytime I was behind there. Moving coats around to make more room, and making sure that nothing got lost... Not to say that that never happened as I am sure most of you remember NYE 2005. I would work from 12:30 am - 10:00am (sometimes later) every weekend. Same when I was behind the bar. As well the people upfront serving and what not have to deal with the customers. Do you know how many times people would yell at me or throw shit at me. Really not fun. So getting tips throughout the night basically made me come back every weekend.

I think he was just blowing off steam about the crappy place he worked.

As for the coat check, anyone who has to stand back there while everyone ELSE is out enjoying themselves, DESERVES a tip, IMO. I always tip the coat check.

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Originally posted by Enraptured I think he was just blowing off steam about the crappy place he worked. As for the coat check, anyone who has to stand back there while everyone ELSE is out enjoying themselves, DESERVES a tip, IMO. I always tip the coat check.

It's not that I'm against tipping or anything like that. But how is this an argument? Lots of people have shitty jobs. Lots of people are working when everyone else is having fun. If you don't like your job, get a better one. Why should people feel sorry for people that don't like their jobs?

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Originally posted by Enraptured As for the coat check, anyone who has to stand back there while everyone ELSE is out enjoying themselves, DESERVES a tip, IMO. I always tip the coat check.

do u also tip the bouncers at the doors?

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Originally posted by TO guy Why should people feel sorry for people that don't like their jobs?

TIPs have nothing to do with the sympathy... scroll up and read what i wrote

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Originally posted by Sasha do u also tip the bouncers at the doors?

no, they get nuff cash from greasing, and they also get random blow jobs from girls who like teh muscles and dont want to pay to get in.

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Originally posted by Floorwhore no, they get nuff cash from greasing, and they also get random blow jobs from girls who like teh muscles and dont want to pay to get in.

lol

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Originally posted by Sasha do u also tip the bouncers at the doors? TIPs have nothing to do with the sympathy... scroll up and read what i wrote

I read what you wrote, but I was more reffering to what Enraptured wrote.

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Originally posted by TO guy It's not that I'm against tipping or anything like that. But how is this an argument? Lots of people have shitty jobs. Lots of people are working when everyone else is having fun. If you don't like your job, get a better one. Why should people feel sorry for people that don't like their jobs?

I didn't say that people SHOULD tip the coat check, I just said that I do. I'm not here to tell YOU what you should and shouldn't do, you have a conscience for that, I assume.

I'm just saying that's MY opinion... I have a pretty strong suspicion that the people working coat check don't make very good money. So a couple of bucks, if they get it from every person coming through their line, will make them happy. And I'm all for making people happy.

What's a toonie to me? But if say... five hundred people leave their coats, and a toonie, well that's a very good night for coat-check, no?

Think about what a club would be like with NO coat check, because they couldn't get anyone to do it? Yeah. Not fun. Or a coat-check you couldn't trust?

As for the bouncers, they are paid WAY WAY better than the coat-check... it's not the same thing. They are not "service" personnel.

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If my server... a.) is friendly and polite b.) comes by and asks how the meal is c.) checks every once in a while for refills d.) asks how every thing was when bringing the bill i usually tip 20% if they fail to do any of the above mentioned, knock off roughly 5% for each missed.

That's roughly the system I follow. I base my tip on the service provided.
But there are exceptions. For example; there's a new mexican food (practically fast food) store, and their Interac machine allows the tip option. I hate "non-full-service" restaurant staff asking for tips. Fcuk off, they make the legal minimum wage, and I had to bust my balls for years working those jobs too. We all gotta do it at one time or another. Don't like your job, quit.
My gf used to work in the food industry, and as a waitress as well. Thanks to her urging, I now spend a fortune on tips. All the while grumbling

trying to talk with "servers " etc about tipping is like trying to get a square block into a round hole ...

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Originally posted by Euphorica trying to talk with "servers " etc about tipping is like trying to get a square block into a round hole ...

Heh... are you detecting a bias??

But really, all kidding aside, even BEFORE I was a server I tipped well.

Now that I see how hard it really IS to be aserver, especially when it's really BUSY... i can appreciate the amount of work it takes.

Perspective is everything, right?

Servers make 6.25 h, without tips they make nothing so they highly depends on it. Also working on the floor and in the kitchen is not comparable. Kitchen is strictly a physical job, do this, do that and youre done. When you're on the floor you have to be constantly smiling and be happy no matter whats on your mind. Customers always complain no matter how good you are and most of the time you bust your ass off to make the money you do. I used to carry like 5 plates in each hand because we had no time to go and comebck and they would burn the hands and forearms because the food was so fucking hot and the plates jsut came out from a dishwasher. People always bitch that its not what they ordered so when you have to comeback you have another tables food coming out so you had to deal with already busy kitchen to remake the food for that table which caused extreme confusion for everyone. There is way way more things i dont have time to mention right now but you basically bust your ass for the money you make so tipping is important.

Interesting article...

http://www.newyorker.com/talk/conte...talk_surowiecki

"In an extensive survey of tipping studies, Michael Lynn, a professor at Cornell, found only a weak correlation between the quality of service that people report receiving and the tips they give. On average, exceptional service raised tips by about 1.5 per cent, which, Lynn argues, is too small for waiters to notice. And countries where there�s no tipping�like Australia and Japan�don�t have worse service than the United States."

Sort of flies against what I'VE been saying eh? I like shooting down my own arguments!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tipping

Breaks down tipping practices by region/country.

So far, the argument that I see is that tipping is an incentive to work harder. But, if that were true, so would the following:

=> People with jobs that are not tipped, and thus have no incentive to work well, wouldn't do an up-to-par job. That is not true. If people get paid well, even if it is flat-rate, they are generally happy and generally do an up-to-par job. So pay servers well for the work that they do, and they'll generally do a good job like the rest of us. A high flat-rate pay is as much incentive to walk around with a smile as is getting tips.

Because of external factors (quality of food, performance of kitchen staff) that servers have no control over, people who tip 15% regardless of service, cheap people who tip 5% even if you worked your ass off, generous people, and people who tip based on attractiveness; all that more than offsets people like Floorwhore who religiously tip properly based on the actual service, so on average you getyour 15% tips regardless of how well you worked today. And this amkes the tipping system as inefficient as the flat rate system.

My gripe is not with tipping when you get great service. My gripe is with feeling obligated to tip when I received up-to-par service.

In non-tipping positions, people who excel at their jobs also get rewarded - raises, promotions, etc. People who are up-to-par stay in the same place. People who aren't, eventually either quit or get fired. I don't see why a manager in a restaurant can't do the same with their employees.

Oh, and the argument "we work hard so we should get tipped" is completely bogus - if you work hard, you should be paid more, if you don't like it, quit. Free-market forces work well enough that if everybody suddenly stopped paying the mandatory tips, restaurant wages and prices would rise to the point where there would be a pool of workers willing to do the job well at the market wage.

quote:

Originally posted by Enraptured "In an extensive survey of tipping studies, Michael Lynn, a professor at Cornell, found only a weak correlation between the quality of service that people report receiving and the tips they give. On average, exceptional service raised tips by about 1.5 per cent, which, Lynn argues, is too small for waiters to notice.

thats my argument against tipping, it has become so standard, that some people leave tip regardless, and if all exceptional service gets you 1.5% extra, then thats not a huge incentive...

so some people expect tip regardless of if all they said was "hi, what would you like" and then leave a smiley on the bill.

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Originally posted by simms327 so some people expect tip regardless of if all they said was "hi, what would you like" and then leave a smiley on the bill.

EXACTLY!

If they did EXACTLY the job they are supposed to (and I think being nice ot the customer is part of the job), why do I have to pay them extra?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur EXACTLY! If they did EXACTLY the job they are supposed to (and I think being nice ot the customer is part of the job), why do I have to pay them extra?

you never have to tip them anything, that is why it is called a tip. It's pretty much a courtesy or a tradition where you tip a waiter after you've been served. It also shows that you have class especially when you're with a girl.

Plus depending on the tip you leave them next time you will recieve a better service, examples would be: Restaurant is full and one table is left, i will seat people that were nicer to me the previous night and i will seat them first, make sure their drinks are right there and ready and the food the best it could be. Yes, we do remember nice customers that tip well 85% of the time. If you show up 2-3times, leave a nice tip i will remember you 100% and i will give you the best and the fastest service I can provide so you will comeback and will tip me well again.

Another example would be me getting a haircut at a local barber place, because i tippped well they let me stay and get my haircut 5minutes before their closing time everytime i showed up, but kicked everybody else out because they tip a loonie or a toonie. The haircut was like 14 bucks and i would always leave a 20 so no matter what i always got my haircut if its busy or not.

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Originally posted by geroin Plus depending on the tip you leave them next time you will recieve a better service, examples would be: Restaurant is full and one table is left, i will seat people that were nicer to me the previous night and i will seat them first, make sure their drinks are right there and ready and the food the best it could be. Yes, we do remember nice customers that tip well 85% of the time. If you show up 2-3times, leave a nice tip i will remember you 100% and i will give you the best and the fastest service I can provide so you will comeback and will tip me well again. Another example would be me getting a haircut at a local barber place, because i tippped well they let me stay and get my haircut 5minutes before their closing time everytime i showed up, but kicked everybody else out because they tip a loonie or a toonie. The haircut was like 14 bucks and i would always leave a 20 so no matter what i always got my haircut if its busy or not.

That's just bribery. ESPECIALLY the barbershop example.

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur That's just bribery. ESPECIALLY the barbershop example.

call it what you want but thats the way most if not all places operate.

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Originally posted by geroin call it what you want but thats the way most if not all places operate.

Oh! Well that certainly makes bribery legal now, doesn't it?

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Oh! Well that certainly makes bribery legal now, doesn't it?

Yes, now stop being cheap and "bribe" your server.. you might get some better service. You talk about free markets with respect to server's wages, but you can't understand this concept? Service follows money, tip a little.. and get little service.


I usually tip, unless the service is HORRIBLE. If someone is taking the time to provide you with a customized service, it's only right to show them that you appreciated the service (whether it's his or her job or not).

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