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Trance:

Artist Profile Series 1 - Solar Serenades - Mixed by Ferry Corsten
Ferry Corsten - Right Of Way
Mirco De Govia - Chronoscale
Nightmusic Volume 1 - Mixed by The Thrillseekers
Passport - Kingdom Of The Netherlands - Mixed by Ferry Corsten
Plastic Angel - Hardwired
Tranceport - Mixed by Paul Oakenfold
Transa - Chronology

Progressive house:

Balance 005 - Mixed by James Holden
Renaissance - James Zabiela 'Utilities' - Mixed by James Zabiela

Techno:

Intecnique - A Continuous Mix by Valentino Kanzyani
The Torture Chamber 2 - Mixed by Umek

Mix:
Magik 6, ISOS 1 & 3...

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN It's the same...

You see, here is why you are an idiot. Go back and read the context of my comment. I said that Ima had strong house tones to it as well as trance, and Rapidfire agreed, saying it leans towards dream house. Then you come in and try and say that dream house and dream trance are interchangable. If this were the case, then Ima would not sound like dream house because dream house is apparently dream trance, and so Ima wouldn't sound housey at all, when Rapidfire was fucking agreeing with me that it does.

quote:

Oh man you have serious mental deficits...MOST of the album is based in a 4/4 kick (yes this is four-to-the-floor it is written as 4/4 you know...)even if you like it or not THIS IS TEH FUCKING TRUTH!!!!LOL!!!

4/4 is a time signature, declaring four beats to a bar. Four on the floor is a different thing. If you think Planet of the Shapes or Walk Now are four on the floor, you're deaf. And here's an interesting little test. Remind sounded suspicious to me, so I put it on the decks and killed the treble and mid so all you can hear are the kicks and bassline. Guess what? When it gets noisy, the track shifts from a four on the floor to a break. As for Lush 3.2, it does stick to a four on the floor for the most part, but at least one bar is a rolling kick. Combine that with the other percussion and the track feels more like a break than a steady kick.

And here's some fun with comparisons, since you like to compare Orbital with trance tracks made six years later. Guess who else liked to use similar break/steady beats in 1993. The Prodigy. Just take a listen to tracks like No Good, Speedway or One Love- they use the same hybrid beats. Now what possibly connects them to Orbital, other than they're from the same country and are connected to the same scene? That's right, both acts before and after this era were using conventional breakbeats. That suggests to me that in 93/94 there was a mini trend for this kind of beat which had nothing to do with trance.

quote:

Now...i'm not saying that orbital are trance, that's what i've said in the beginning. They are IDM (although IDM is a broad ghost genre to descrive EVERYTHING that is slightly different from the normal or the mainstream)but they had many trance elements in the beginning of their career even if you like it or even if you don't!!!

Orbital may have become an IDM act, but for their first two albums there wasn't really such a thing as IDM, and Orbital were still linked strongly with the UK scene, particularly on Green. Chime was a warehouse anthem and described by one music magazine as "the moment English techno adopted its own personality" rather than imitating Detroit. You can find stuff that sounds vaguely trance-like on their early albums, but it sounds a lot more like early UK techno/rave that happens to be a bit trancey if you want to make that connection.

quote:

I find my definition of trance just fine. You consider it as "ramble" and horribly written. Fine.Find a better one.

I have plenty. I know perfectly well what trance sounds like as far back as its conception. There is no dictionary definition that will cover all trance, like you're struggling to provide. Like all genres, trance is defined by the sounds of the music labelled within it. The genre of something is determined both by what it sounds like in relation to other music and where this music came from. In Orbital's case, it comes from a UK techno act tied to the rave scene who were expanding into more individual, cinematic work. It may sound a little trancey, but even what you claim as "pure trance" on Brown sounds to me like a particular variation of a general sound on the album: that sound being techno.

Put simply: Lush 3.1 and Halcyon sound like Orbital's techno style made to do melodic, enveloping jobs, rather than Orbital switching genres dramatically over the course of a coherent album. My personal perception of Brown is that it depicts a day/night cycle of a 24 hour rave (the type they were associated with). The nascent sound of Planet of the Shapes giving way to the expansive, open and bright sounds of Lush and Impact, before the album goes dark and finally surfaces at sunrise with Halcyon. Now to convey this change of mood, the sound must change. If it comes close to trance to do so, it doesn't mean the album or track is related to trance.

quote:

Also i'm not a native english speaker and i'm trying to give a definiton.You are probably an english chav with no clue or knowledge of any other language or anything or whatsoever.If you had you would know how difficult it is, especially in this level. Sorry.

Right, so we're resorting to unfounded insults now? For the record, I can speak broken French if I need to, but since English is both the primary language of the Internet and the world, I don't need to learn another language to talk on TA. If you don't speak great English, I don't recommend writing big, technical passages in English.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Oh man you have serious mental deficits...MOST of the album is based in a 4/4 kick (yes this is four-to-the-floor it is written as 4/4 you know...)even if you like it or not THIS IS TEH FUCKING TRUTH!!!!LOL!!!

Four-to-the-floor is a lot more about rhythmic perception than simply another name for the 4/4 time signature

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN You are probably an english chav with no clue or knowledge of any other language or anything or whatsoever.If you had you would know how difficult it is, especially in this level. Sorry.

So when the battle of words slip against you, the best you can do (rather than admit a gracious defeat) is sling insults that are based on cultural observations that spawned in the UK?

(um... Eat Static - Science Of The Gods ranks up there for me)

You can carry on with this mildly entertaining 'debate'.

quote:

You see, here is why you are an idiot. Go back and read the context of my comment. I said that Ima had strong house tones to it as well as trance, and Rapidfire agreed, saying it leans towards dream house. Then you come in and try and say that dream house and dream trance are interchangable. If this were the case, then Ima would not sound like dream house because dream house is apparently dream trance, and so Ima wouldn't sound housey at all, when Rapidfire was fucking agreeing with me that it does.

Dream-trance or dream-houe or dream-sound which were the one and the same, was a sound that originated in the mid-90s.It was very classically sounding with lot's of analogue pianos and chords.key-figures were robert miles. A famous tune was the "x-files theme" remixed by dj dado. "Dream-house" is not different from "dream-trance".I don't know if "ima" can be considered as "Dream-hosue" or "Dream-trance" or "porn-trance" or whatever...it has pianos and chords and stuff at times if you want it to be "dream-house" than it's "dream-house" i'm not gonna change your perceptions and make you unhappy.

quote:

4/4 is a time signature, declaring four beats to a bar

Yes it is.

quote:

Four on the floor is a different thing

Oh really, what is it then?


Oh no, please don't tell me. I'm gonna end this madness now!(in a epic style voice)


From wikipedia...


Four to the floor or four-on-the-floor is a type of dance music characterized by a steady, uniformly accented beat in 4/4 time, popularized in 1960s, and disco music of 1970s. It is also known in country music.

Examples of this music type are disco, house, techno, reggaeton, and trance.

This steady beat is usually maintained by the kick drum (bass drum).

When a string instrument makes the rhythm (rhythm guitar, banjo), all four beats of the measure are played by identical downstrokes.

Hmmm let's continue

quote:

If you think Planet of the Shapes or Walk Now are four on the floor, you're deaf

Or maybe you have some really serious cognitive deficits have you thought about that?Did you know that ribena is 5% concentrated and 95% water with purple paint and chemicals?This is surely bad for your neurons and glial cells!!!As i said before the VAST majority of the album is a grounded on 4/4 rhytmh.The ONLY tune that has a clear break-beat pattern is "impact-the earth is burning" which reminds me of the work of juan atkins/model 500(and it's just my opinion).

quote:

And here's an interesting little test. Remind sounded suspicious to me,

LOL so you are in detective business now, a "Sound detective" maybe?lol. So, is it "guilty" because in reallity its a break-beat tune "masked" as a 4/4 (and cheating innocent people)or because it's a 4/4 which is achieved by other ways rather than the conventional?!?FFS...

quote:

And here's some fun with comparisons, since you like to compare Orbital with trance tracks made six years later. Guess who else liked to use similar break/steady beats in 1993. The Prodigy

Yes i know prodigy, i have bought "music for the gilted generation" when it came out in 94, and i have to say that prodigy are irrelevant to orbital.Obviously, prodigy and orbital are the only two big music groups that you are aware of, and as a result you drew similarities only form the fact that they are temporally (in time-early 90s) and spatially(in space-UK) related.From these minimal(or even non-existent) clues you even came to a conclusion, that "it was a mini-trent back then" such a naive individual you are.Prodigy came from the (terribly stupid) uk rave-happy hardcore scene(charly...) where as orbital came from a more ballearic house/techno background."Break-beat" was the "rhythmic heart" of hardcore music and therefore prodigy had heavily relied on breabeat patterns.

To end this thing, the comparisons i did between the "early" sound of orbital and the "late" trance sound were made in a"Semi-jokingly" fashion and weren't meant to be taken too seriously. You grabbed this funny statement and used it in order to make your personal attacks. The fact that they are musically similar(at least to my ears) though says something.What does it say?That they are indeed vertically (and not horizontally related).Tunes like "lush-3.1" and "halcyon+on+on" were "epic house" tunes, the sound that charly may and sasha used to play back in the day. Epic ballearic house was a huge contributor to the developemt of 97' epic trance, in a matter of fact the pianos, the ambient pads and summery nostalgic lead-lines were all representative of the current genre. In this way, orbital weren't directly producing "trance" but a very similar sound(at least in these two tunes)which in turn hugelly contributed to the developemt of "epic-melodic" trance.In a matter of fact,the "epic proggy house" sound was considered by many as another trance sub-genre and probably the genre itself was influenced by early trance.

Lush 3.2 and remind are PURE early PSY-TRANCE tunes.I don't know how or why, but obviously orbital were influenced by the exploding german trance (and european psy-trance in general) scene(s) and therefore produced some tracks themeselves. Inter and intra-genre osmosis or diffusion (use any chemical process)is very common in the ever-changing dynamic co-evolution of genres and sub-genres (not very bad english ee??).It's not strange therefore that orbital have produced some pure trance tracks themeselves.

Planet of the shapes and walk-now are intelligent techno tunes in the vein of another great british group, namely "the black dog".Walk-now though could appear in an early trance compilation.The boundaries between trance and techno were EXTREMELY blurred back then, and some techno tunes that used arpeggiating ascending-descending synth-lines (such as walk-now)could easily appear in a trance-comp.Buy or download an early "trance-master" compilation to see for youself.Monday is clearly a chicago-house tune. The whole album is varied but coherent at the same time.Maybe it has a concept,(maybe the day-night or a light-dark thing or whatever)and it is achieved through this variation.


I insist therefore that "brown album" is the trancier album by orbital and i don't striclty define trance as the "early german techno sub-genre"-(eventhough some of the tunes clearly exhibit these characteristics)but in a broader way, namely the "type of dance music that is based strongly in chord progressions, arpeggiations and strong melodic patterns". You haven't provided me with another better definition though you just "marbled"(your favorite word).

quote:

Right, so we're resorting to unfounded insults now? For the record, I can speak broken French if I need to, but since English is both the primary language of the Internet and the world, I don't need to learn another language to talk on TA. If you don't speak great English, I don't recommend writing big, technical passages in English.

As you can see i can writte some long okish passages with some complicated words, eventhough i'm not an native english speaker. Maybe you have stereotyped me by the only fact that i'm not a "native english" speaker and therefore i'm incapable of developing a grammatically coherent complex argument.A last advice, please, don't stuck in genre definitions, because genre-naming in not objective.It's stupid when you try to make it "objective" when it is not
(and try to use your objective knowledge in order to play the "wise-master"-a very "teenage thing" to do and genre-fighting-an even more teenage activity-and you are regular in "Genre-fighting boards").Oh, and be carefull with your attitude kid, even in the internet.

trancemaster 19

I can't wait for SYSTEM-J's reply. I got the popcorn ready, maybe I'll actually learn something from this

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Dream-trance or dream-houe or dream-sound which were the one and the same, was a sound that originated in the mid-90s.It was very classically sounding with lot's of analogue pianos and chords.key-figures were robert miles. A famous tune was the "x-files theme" remixed by dj dado. "Dream-house" is not different from "dream-trance".I don't know if "ima" can be considered as "Dream-hosue" or "Dream-trance" or "porn-trance" or whatever...it has pianos and chords and stuff at times if you want it to be "dream-house" than it's "dream-house" i'm not gonna change your perceptions and make you unhappy.

The only trouble with this is that dream trance doesn't sound very housey and Ima doesn't sound very classical. Which means you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

quote:

Oh really, what is it then?

There is a difference between a kick drum and a "beat". All 4/4 music has four beats to a bar, and almost all dance music, including breakbeat styles, is in 4/4 time.

quote:

Or maybe you have some really serious cognitive deficits have you thought about that?Did you know that ribena is 5% concentrated and 95% water with purple paint and chemicals?This is surely bad for your neurons and glial cells!!!As i said before the VAST majority of the album is a grounded on 4/4 rhytmh.The ONLY tune that has a clear break-beat pattern is "impact-the earth is burning" which reminds me of the work of juan atkins/model 500(and it's just my opinion).

But it isn't. Any fucking idiot can hear that they are breakbeat tracks on Planet of the Shapes and Walk Now. It's utterly blatant. And on most of the others, as described, the four on the floor is not constant. The rest of the percussion is also structured as a breakbeat. One of the consistent features of almost all trance is that everything- the kick, the snare and the hihats- are regular. There is barely a single track on Brown that has regular snares and hihats.

quote:

LOL so you are in detective business now, a "Sound detective" maybe?lol. So, is it "guilty" because in reallity its a break-beat tune "masked" as a 4/4 (and cheating innocent people)or because it's a 4/4 which is achieved by other ways rather than the conventional?!?FFS...

No you fucktard. The track starts out in four on the floor but it switches to a breakbeat. The trouble is that the track is so noisy that you can't tell for sure through headphones. So I did a conclusive test cutting all but the bass on a good pair of speakers, proving it's a break.

quote:

Yes i know prodigy, i have bought "music for the gilted generation" when it came out in 94, and i have to say that prodigy are irrelevant to orbital.Obviously, prodigy and orbital are the only two big music groups that you are aware of, and as a result you drew similarities only form the fact that they are temporally (in time-early 90s) and spatially(in space-UK) related.From these minimal(or even non-existent) clues you even came to a conclusion, that "it was a mini-trent back then" such a naive individual you are.Prodigy came from the (terribly stupid) uk rave-happy hardcore scene(charly...) where as orbital came from a more ballearic house/techno background."Break-beat" was the "rhythmic heart" of hardcore music and therefore prodigy had heavily relied on breabeat patterns.

Orbital came from the acid house raves around the London M25. They are fucking named after the ring-road parties. Balaeric background my arse.

quote:

Tunes like "lush-3.1" and "halcyon+on+on" were "epic house" tunes

Of course.

quote:

Lush 3.2 and remind are PURE early PSY-TRANCE tunes.I don't know how or why, but obviously orbital were influenced by the exploding german trance (and european psy-trance in general) scene(s) and therefore produced some tracks themeselves.

Actually Remind is based on Orbital's remix of a Meat Beat Manifesto track, as cited in the album notes. MBM are a UK breaks act from the early 90s, who influenced (amongst others) The Prodigy. See how my sources actually tie together?

quote:

I insist therefore that "brown album" is the trancier album by orbital and i don't striclty define trance as the "early german techno sub-genre"-(eventhough some of the tunes clearly exhibit these characteristics)but in a broader way, namely the "type of dance music that is based strongly in chord progressions, arpeggiations and strong melodic patterns". You haven't provided me with another better definition though you just "marbled"(your favorite word).

I called them what they were - a UK techno act. And the word is "rambled" you dolt. Even if English is a second language, I'd have thought you capable of copying a word on this page correctly.

quote:

As you can see i can writte some long okish passages with some complicated words, eventhough i'm not an native english speaker. Maybe you have stereotyped me by the only fact that i'm not a "native english" speaker and therefore i'm incapable of developing a grammatically coherent complex argument.

I'm not stereotyping you. Your shit is awful to read, even when you're trying. Usually you make epic rambles resorting to a smothering of ellipses. It looks like your entire posts are garbled stream-of-consciousness babbling, which isn't hard to believe. I know people who speak English as a third language, and they can speak it fluently and use correct grammar. If you're coming onto an English language forum to argue with English-speakers, you should make sure you can write coherently, because it's a pain to comprehend your posts.

quote:

Oh, and be carefull with your attitude kid, even in the internet.

Arf. You're an idiot in whatever language you speak, so calling age on me isn't going to save you any more than the rest of your irrelevant personal insults did. And yes, I called you an idiot, but that is relevant because I'm having to deal with examples of it.

quote:

The only trouble with this is that dream trance doesn't sound very housey and Ima doesn't sound very classical. Which means you don't have a fucking clue what you're talking about.

Doh!Dream-house and dream-trance should not be taken literally as "house" and "trance" respectively.It's the one and the same. Cope with it. I don't care about "Ima" i was making a joke there. Very bad that your are a "cholleric bastard" "alone in the kitchen" between the shadows and you couldn't get it.

quote:

There is a difference between a kick drum and a "beat". All 4/4 music has four beats to a bar, and almost all dance music, including breakbeat styles, is in 4/4 time.

Four to the floor or four-on-the-floor is a type of dance music characterized by a steady, uniformly accented beat in 4/4 time. That was from wikipedia again.

from wikipedia again...

Trance is a style that employs a 4/4 time signature, complemented by a 4/4 bass drum on its downbeats.


ALL the tunes except impact accomplish just that.But even impact, planet of the shapes and walk-now don't, than the two lushes, remind, halcyon and monday clearly do...(you haven't convinced me about remind)

quote:

It's utterly blatant. And on most of the others, as described, the four on the floor is not constant. The rest of the percussion is also structured as a breakbeat. One of the consistent features of almost all trance is that everything- the kick, the snare and the hihats- are regular. There is barely a single track on Brown that has regular snares and hihats.

So, because the hihats and snares do not perfectly follow the 4/4 kick drum means that the tunes are not based in a straight 4/4 but a break-beat?You are clearly disturbed. WTF mate therefore the VAST MAJORITY OF EDM is based in breaks and not the typical 4/4!

quote:

So I did a conclusive test cutting all but the bass on a good pair of speakers, proving it's a break

You didn't fucking prove anything, a "proof" is available to everyone and i haven't seen a sample proving that. The only thing that you have proved is that you are a funny, young, arrogant asshole!And yes, it is a 4/4 and it is early psy-trance IMO.It definitelly sounds more like early total eclipse rather MBM or even...prodigy...

quote:

Actually Remind is based on Orbital's remix of a Meat Beat Manifesto track, as cited in the album notes. MBM are a UK breaks act from the early 90s, who influenced (amongst others) The Prodigy. See how my sources actually tie together?

So, you relate orbital to prodigy indirectly, through the indirect influence of MBM had on prodigy, where orbital remixed a tune of MBM and therefore orbital must be related to prodigy(where they used breaks) and therefore orbital used breaks and not 4/4s.

LOGIC MY ASS!!!!

And the fact that the tune was remixed doesn't say anything at all, the current tune doesn't sound at all like MBM, probably orbital raped it very badly...

quote:

Orbital came from the acid house raves around the London M25. They are fucking named after the ring-road parties. Balaeric background my arse.

yes they had and the fact that "they came from somewhere" doesn't mean that orbital weren't evolving their sound, receiving ideas from other music genres, such as the big epic prog-house that was originating at that time (leftfield, underworld, charly may).Yes they had and tunes like lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are clear examples.That's why orbital have contributed to the development of trance (and prog-house ofcourse) and therefore are indirectly or even directly related to later-day trance and prog.

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Doh!Dream-house and dream-trance should not be taken literally as "house" and "trance" respectively.It's the one and the same. Cope with it. I don't care about "Ima" i was making a joke there. Very bad that your are a "cholleric bastard" "alone in the kitchen" between the shadows and you couldn't get it.

Either that, or your sense of humour is extremely shit, or even you're changing your story because you look an idiot. Whatever the hell your point was here, it's wrong.

quote:

Four to the floor or four-on-the-floor is a type of dance music characterized by a steady, uniformly accented beat in 4/4 time. That was from wikipedia again. ALL the tunes except impact accomplish just that.But even impact, planet of the shapes and walk-now don't, than the two lushes, remind, halcyon and monday clearly do...(you haven't convinced me about remind)

No they don't. Only three have a kick on every beat, and they are Lush 3.1, Monday and Halcyon. Monday sounds nothing like trance and you've admitted as much.

quote:

So, because the hihats and snares do not perfectly follow the 4/4 kick drum means that the tunes are not based in a straight 4/4 but a break-beat?You are clearly disturbed. WTF mate therefore the VAST MAJORITY OF EDM is based in breaks and not the typical 4/4!

Stop fucking using 4/4 like that. A breaks track is still in 4/4 time. However, that don't make it four on the floor. All the percussion on Brown is set up like a breakbeat, except the kicks on a couple of tracks.

quote:

You didn't fucking prove anything, a "proof" is available to everyone and i haven't seen a sample proving that. The only thing that you have proved is that you are a funny, young, arrogant asshole!And yes, it is a 4/4 and it is early psy-trance IMO.It definitelly sounds more like early total eclipse rather MBM or even...prodigy...

Go do it yourself. Anyone with a pair of decks and the record can do it in about fifteen seconds and prove it. Are you going to deny that it's true because you haven't tested it?

quote:

So, you relate orbital to prodigy indirectly, through the indirect influence of MBM had on prodigy, where orbital remixed a tune of MBM and therefore orbital must be related to prodigy(where they used breaks) and therefore orbital used breaks and not 4/4s.

This isn't about 4/4s (bangs head), this is about what scene and style they relate to. All three of these acts were part of one scene, and that scene wasn't the trance scene.

quote:

yes they had and the fact that "they came from somewhere" doesn't mean that orbital weren't evolving their sound, receiving ideas from other music genres, such as the big epic prog-house that was originating at that time (leftfield, underworld, charly may).Yes they had and tunes like lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are clear examples.

Prog house isn't trance. Again it was a different scene and genre. You said Orbital had a Balearic origin, which is a load of shite, so now you've completed reversed what you said and are trying to vaguely link Orbital with the rise of progressive trance:

quote:

That's why orbital have contributed to the development of trance (and prog-house ofcourse) and therefore are indirectly or even directly related to later-day trance and prog.

No. Prog house may have influenced prog trance in the 1990s, but Orbital weren't prog house, were they? If Orbital were influenced by Leftfield, Underworld et al, then Orbital were influenced by prog house, but this doesn't make them part of the prog house scene. Just because you've made an unsubstantiated claim that Orbital were linked to prog house (which has changed from trance, your original claim) doesn't mean that any trance movement had anything to do with Orbital, because by the mid 1990s Orbital were fucking miles from prog house and their only possible connection to it was by taking things from it earlier, rather than adding to it and affecting trance. And you accuse me of poor logic?

This is a waste of my time. I suppose you'll try and claim all that last point was a joke now and call me a "cholleric bastard" for not swallowing your cack-handed reasoning.

i actually lol'd at the "marble" bit. top show

Hallucinogen - Twisted
Cosmic Baby - Stellar Supreme

atb - moving melodies (not the UK release)

I've said it before, and I'll tell you the same again:

Mirco de Govia "Chronoscale"

quote:

Originally posted by zoric I've said it before, and I'll tell you the same again: Mirco de Govia "Chronoscale"

Great album, I have a lot of the singles downloaded but haven't bought the album. Maybe I should sometime...I love Micro's music.

Ok, this has gone to far. By now, it is clear that you are an 18-year old arrogant, miserous fuck that never gives up in order to be shown as "clever".This is clearly not the case though. This whole "genre-fighting" thing IS EXTREMELY STUPID and the only reason i'm still carrying it, is because you've used the current "childish"(unfortunatelly) theme in order to make your personal attacks. EDM sub-genres are based in basic patterns and elements and for that reason,it is very hard to distinquish between them. Especially in the beginning of the 90s, genre boundaries were very blurred, especially between, techno, trance and progressive house, three genres which were directly related.Anyways...

The definition of trance according to wikipedia is...


"Trance is a style that employs a 4/4 time signature, complemented by a 4/4 bass drum on its downbeats. Utilizing synthesizers and drum machines, Trance has a BPM of 130-160 beats per minute, somewhat faster than house music. Arpeggios and minor scales are common features."-
This definiton is very close to the one i gave in a previous post. These elements were very common in early trance, progressive house and techno ALIKE. progresssive house was heavily based in arpeggiations and melodic patterns.

quote:

Whatever the hell your point was here, it's wrong.

Since you can't recognise what my point is, how can you tell that i'm wrong?You are a "pure bastard"(like this definition?) aren't you?!?

quote:

No they don't. Only three have a kick on every beat, and they are Lush 3.1, Monday and Halcyon. Monday sounds nothing like trance and you've admitted as much.

quote:

Stop fucking using 4/4 like that. A breaks track is still in 4/4 time. However, that don't make it four on the floor. All the percussion on Brown is set up like a breakbeat, except the kicks on a couple of tracks.

Ok this is getting rediculous.Every track has a clear well pronounced kick-drum to serve as a metronome (except as i said before "impact").Because you are an arrogant asshole and even deny the very basic sensations and perceptions in order to project your irrational crappy arguments, here are the samples. People can judge if these are grounded in breaks or a "four-to-the-floor" as you like to say. Unfortunately i couldn't find a good sample of "planet of the shapes, lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on, but as you said, "lush 3.1" and "halcyon" are clearly based in a well-pronounced 4/4 kick-drum. So...no probs(planet of the shapes remains controversial...)

Lush 3.2
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701303

(lol this is related to early prodigy rather than "trance" people. I would CLEARLY say it's related to early psy/goa-trance...!)

Impact (the earth is burning)
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701304

(The only "true" break-beat" tune...This is what people call "breaks"...)


Remind
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...trackId=4727680

In this, ribena addict, "our detective" ,has discovered that THE 4/4 Kick Drum doesn'r exist!What you listen is an illusion. Also the current tune is "directly" related to MBM, because it is a remix of an MBM tune namely "mindstream" and not early psy/goa-trance.the arpeggiating acid-lines and metallic riffs(which are not present in this sample) are "Clear indications of early rave-hardcore"...DOH!!!)
Ok...experiment...

Early meat beat manifesto tune...from their first self-titled album...)
Dogstar man/helter Skelter
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=632790

THE ORIGINAL "mindstream" by meat beat manifesto (which "remind" is a remix)!!!
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=632832

and an early prodigy one...

"Wind it up"
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=740494

AND NOW AN EARLY PSY-TRANCE TUNE...

Juno Reactor-contact
From their album "Transmissions-93"(same year with borwn album).
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=539709(by the way excellent album)

NO COMMENTS...As i said, yes, orbital took remind (a break-beat/big-beat tune) and RAPED(!) it, transforming it in a psy-trance monster!!!Because orbital remixed a tune by another band, doesn't make them musically related to them. James Holden has remixed Britney spears FFS!!!I will insist in the phrase:LOGIC MY ASS.

Walk Now
http://www.vh1.com/shared/droplets/...?trackId=701306

(Another breaks tune!!!stongue: .It's ridiculous...)

Because there are rolling snares and hihats doesn't mean you idiot that the tracks are based in break-beats! If that was the case , than all early techno and trance would be considered as break-beat (or even worse, hardcore) sub-genres!!!Listen to the fantastic classic trance mix(part-1)
(forum: http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...threadid=353397) to find-out what i'm talking about dumbhead!Listen to the drums going crazy at "21:00", "23:00", "34:00", "38:00", "60:00", 60:07" (by the way, very nice mix...excellent!Thanks for posting this classic gem!))Snares and hi-hats and even the kicks were almost always found at slightly "irregular patterns" back then,(in 90-94) and as a result the rhytmh was sounding a bit "breaky"(that is, not-well pronounced 4/4 as you said). That was not a characteristic aspect of orbital's sound (and to their "relation" to the "prodigy-MBM scene lol which scene was that?!!?)but a regular thing that was done by everyone back then!!!This was even more intense in techno records, detroit and german techno alike.

Orbital have begun in the early rave scene as a "techno-duo" but due to the course of their career, they never stopped experimenting, incorporating new sounds and ideas...In discogs their "lush 3" e.p in most of the times is labelled as "trance" and "trance-techno"
http://www.discogs.com/release/24350, http://www.discogs.com/release/42756
their second album is also labelled as "trance-techno"
http://www.discogs.com/release/59547, http://www.discogs.com/release/419929

"Lush 3.1" appears in a classic trance compilation..."logic trance-2" as a classic trance track alongside other classic trance tracks such as energy-52s "cafe del mar"("Lush" it's a classic prog track that contributed to trance and therefore can be considered as a "trance" classic.http://www.discogs.com/release/32272 and "remind" in a compilation entitled as "trancefusion-2")

As i have stated, prog-house was directly related to trance in a vertical and not horizontal fashion. Early prog was directly influenced by early trance and then, mid-90s prog, had directly influenced later "epic trance".

According to "wikipedia"...
"Progressive house has its origins in Britain in the early 1990s, with the output of the Guerrilla record label and Leftfield's first singles (particularly "Song of Life") and then Mixmag editor Dom Phillips to coin the term. In 1992, what was to be the first superclub, Renaissance threw open its doors in the small mining town of Mansfield, and its DJs - particularly Sasha and the then-unknown John Digweed - were instrumental in pushing the sound in its early days. The music itself consisted of the 4-to-4 beat of house music allied to deeper, dub-influenced basslines and a more melancholic, emotional edge. Often, the ethereal "swirly" textures of early TRANCE could be heard in the mix, and various other elements from across the electronic spectrum."

From all these, it is clear that early orbital are directly and indirectly related to trance. Lush 3.2 and remind are clear indications of early psy/goa IMO and trance and lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are epic progressive house tunes(which according to wikipedia, prog-house was heavily influenced by early trance, especially the "melodic" aspect)which in turn have contributed to the development of "epic trance".

quote:

Prog house may have influenced prog trance in the 1990s, but Orbital weren't prog house, were they? If Orbital were influenced by Leftfield, Underworld et al, then Orbital were influenced by prog house, but this doesn't make them part of the prog house scene. Just because you've made an unsubstantiated claim that Orbital were linked to prog house (which has changed from trance, your original claim) doesn't mean that any trance movement had anything to do with Orbital

I still consider "brown album" to be a "Trance/progressive/techno" classic.I haven't changed my mind in opposition to what you said. From the very beginning i have supported the notion that there was a "Strong direct and indirect trance presence in brown album" and NOT that brown album was rather clear "trance" and/or progressive. "brown album" is a varied EDM album with lots of ideas, but with heavy "early" trance and prog aspects.But anyways, genre fighting especially when it is carried over these blurred genre boundaries is worthless and at this point, there are no objective criteria that one could use in order to come with a clear-cut objective argument.It is up to peoples perceptions now, and that was the reason that i've posted samples. TAs can judge and see for themeselves. I hope you liked my EPIC post(it will be the last) and to enjoy the various samples and information i give.I love giving samples, that was a good motivation, although the whole argument was still worthless.Thanks for giving me the chance to post samples and information asshole!

Artist Albums:
ones that have been mentioned already really..
Ayla, BT, Chicane, Art of Trance, Hybrid, Man With No Name, Robert Miles, Juno Reactor, Orbital, Prodigy (eh EDM is EDM!)...

Mix Albums:
Gatecrasher (Wet and Global Sound System mostly)
Euphoria Level 3
White Label Euphoria
GU007 Oakenfold
ISOS 1 and 2
Deeper Shades of Hooj

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN Ok, this has gone to far. By now, it is clear that you are an 18-year old arrogant, miserous fuck that never gives up in order to be shown as "clever".

Yes, and it's clear you'll throw everything and the kitchen sink in as far as insults go, then have the balls to accuse me of employing personal attacks.

quote:

This definiton is very close to the one i gave in a previous post. These elements were very common in early trance, progressive house and techno ALIKE. progresssive house was heavily based in arpeggiations and melodic patterns.

So what you're saying is that a description (taken from a site that doesn't actually have any real authority) that you're using for trance is equally applicable to techno- the genre which Orbital subscribed to back then?

quote:

Since you can't recognise what my point is, how can you tell that i'm wrong?You are a "pure bastard"(like this definition?) aren't you?!?

Because if it was a joke then there was no indication nor any apparent punchline, and if it was a serious point then I utterly smashed it a couple of posts back. Either way it was an irrelevant addition to this thread and the fact that you said "this proves my point" means you obviously intended something serious by it, contrary to what you now claim.

And what the hell is a "pure bastard", precisely?

quote:

(lol this is related to early prodigy rather than "trance" people. I would CLEARLY say it's related to early psy/goa-trance...!)

Okay, let's compare with the Juno Reactor track you linked to. The tempo of the Orbital track is much slower, and the Juno track shows a classic example of the trance beat I'm talking about : the kick, the snare and the percussion are totally regular, where as nothing is on Lush 3.2. They're different rhythms.

quote:

In this, ribena addict, "our detective" ,has discovered that THE 4/4 Kick Drum doesn'r exist!What you listen is an illusion.

Are you so fucking stupid you can't even comprehend my posts? Or are you just deliberately ignoring them? I said quite fucking clearly that Remind changes from a four on the floor to a break. Here's the quote, you dickhead:

quote:

Remind sounded suspicious to me, so I put it on the decks and killed the treble and mid so all you can hear are the kicks and bassline. Guess what? When it gets noisy, the track shifts from a four on the floor to a break.

Or will you deny this because you can't be bothered to look back at my posts?

quote:

Also the current tune is "directly" related to MBM, because it is a remix of an MBM tune namely "mindstream" and not early psy/goa-trance.

Again, a distortion of what I said. The MBM fact merely shows what scene Orbital were part of.

Also, why have you posted a totally irrelevant Prodigy track? Wind it Up is from Experience, 1991. Liam Howlett has stated in countless interviews he disowned that sound which reflected in the total change of sound on MFTJG. Why didn't you post one of The Prodigy tracks I mentioned? Because you're distorting what has been said to bolster your argument?

Also, I came across something that Google churned up, from Ishkur's sample database. It would seem that The Prodigy's "Speedway" would sample an Orbital track. Which one? Why, Lush 3.1 it seems. Alas, I couldn't find a decent sample of Speedway to make my point with.

quote:

Because there are rolling snares and hihats doesn't mean you idiot that the tracks are based in break-beats! If that was the case , than all early techno and trance would be considered as break-beat (or even worse, hardcore) sub-genres!!!Listen to the fantastic classic trance mix(part-1)

Funny how that is not the case on the Juno track you used as a comparison, isn't it? Anyway, I said earlier that the percussion combined with the semi-irregular kick gives the impression of a break.

quote:

This was even more intense in techno records, detroit and german techno alike.

Yes... techno. Which Orbital are. Also, out of a whole mix you link to, you find a few isolated instances of irregular percussive patterns? Sounds like an exception rather than a rule.

quote:

"Lush 3.1" appears in a classic trance compilation..."logic trance-2" as a classic trance track alongside other classic trance tracks such as energy-52s "cafe del mar"("Lush" it's a classic prog track that contributed to trance and therefore can be considered as a "trance" classic.http://www.discogs.com/release/32272

Yeah. The Orb's "Little Fluffy Clouds" and FSOL's "Papua New Guinea" also appear on that mix. Two ambient house records. Because, y'know, it's not impossible for trance mixes to use other genres.

quote:

From all these, it is clear that early orbital are directly and indirectly related to trance. Lush 3.2 and remind are clear indications of early psy/goa IMO and trance and lush 3.1 and halcyon+on+on are epic progressive house tunes(which according to wikipedia, prog-house was heavily influenced by early trance, especially the "melodic" aspect)which in turn have contributed to the development of "epic trance".

Yes, and I've dismissed this logic in an earlier post. If Orbital were influenced by prog house, they're a product of the genre, not part of it. We also had a name-that-genre on Halcyon recently, and the common consensus was that it's ambient techno or ambient house rather than "epic prog house".

quote:

Thanks for giving me the chance to post samples and information asshole!

Yes, I like how you grossly distort what I said and then use samples that have nothing to do with what I've said.

^ Will you two agree to disagree already?

Ok, i can't help it...people bring your pop-corn back, here comes another epic hollywood-style post!

quote:

So what you're saying is that a description (taken from a site that doesn't actually have any real authority) that you're using for trance is equally applicable to techno- the genre which Orbital subscribed to back then?

No, i said that some elements could be found in all three.

quote:

Because if it was a joke then there was no indication nor any apparent punchline, and if it was a serious point then I utterly smashed it a couple of posts back. Either way it was an irrelevant addition to this thread and the fact that you said "this proves my point" means you obviously intended something serious by it, contrary to what you now claim. And what the hell is a "pure bastard", precisely?

You "smashed" it???Wooowww you are sooo wild. unfortunately you didn't smash anything but air!!!Yes, you were fighting with your own shadow...
A pure bastard is you.If you search at the dictionary for the definition of a "pure bastard", there is a photograph and a clear description of you as the best example of the "pure bastards" category.

quote:

Okay, let's compare with the Juno Reactor track you linked to. The tempo of the Orbital track is much slower, and the Juno track shows a classic example of the trance beat I'm talking about : the kick, the snare and the percussion are totally regular, where as nothing is on Lush 3.2. They're different rhythms.

No they are not different at all!You just compare the rhythm and not the whole track and this is clearly wrong. Would you except to share an identical rhytmh FFS???They are a both 4/4 though don't worry.Other than that they both have acid lines, arpeggiating synths and noisy sounds, they are extremely similar.More similar than orbital's tracks in relation to ANY prodigy and MBM track anyway!!!I have allready posted samples...they speak for themeselves...Also see what i say later on genre-classifications.

quote:

Are you so fucking stupid you can't even comprehend my posts? Or are you just deliberately ignoring them? I said quite fucking clearly that Remind changes from a four on the floor to a break. Here's the quote, you dickhead:

Nothing changes to anything at all.Nothing shifts, nothing weird happens. The only thing that actually occurs is that he kick-drum is turned-down,leaving the snare to provide the clear-cut four-to-the-floor pattern, a snare that was allready there right form the beginning. Just because there are two extra hits between the third and fourth bars doesn't make it a break, it just has a slightly breaky feel which was a common practice back then.As i said the "kk-trance mix part-1"(classic trance mix) contains many tunes which contain such drum-patterns and yes, i'm not talking about exceptional moments but about whole tunes.(Listen the tunes at 22:00,33:00 etc...)A clear-cut break-beat pattern is much more irregular such as in "impact-the earth is burning" (samples are still there).Wikipedia:

"Breakbeat (sometimes breakbeats or breaks) is a term used to describe a collection of sub-genres of electronic music, usually characterized by the use of a non-straighted 4/4 drum pattern (as opposed to the steady beat of house or trance). These rhythms may be characterised by their use of syncopation and polyrhythms, which are prominent in all music of African origin, including much Afro-American music."

quote:

Again, a distortion of what I said. The MBM fact merely shows what scene Orbital were part of.

Which scene was that???You still haven't said.Anyway please read what i say later about what is a "scene" and what is a"genre". From a musical perspective, orbital, prodigy and MBM were totally unrelated anyway.the only thing that had in common were the amazing live-shows.

So, a tune's remix indicates the "Categorisation" of music???Thereofe Holden plays the same music with Britney Spears, Lost Witness with This Mortal Coil (which "Song to the siren is theirs") Oakenfold with U2, many trance acts with rock and pop tunes...(Etc. etc. etc.)A totally biased argument of yours.Orbital throught their course of their careers have collaborated with and remixed almost everyone, be it dance, pop, folk or rock!!!See their biographies to find out for yourself in discogs...
http://www.discogs.com/artist/Orbital
and Wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orbital_(band)

quote:

Also, why have you posted a totally irrelevant Prodigy track? Wind it Up is from Experience, 1991. Liam Howlett has stated in countless interviews he disowned that sound which reflected in the total change of sound on MFTJG. Why didn't you post one of The Prodigy tracks I mentioned? Because you're distorting what has been said to bolster your argument?

LOL, so a prodigy's track from MFTJG would make a big difference right?!?

quote:

Also, I came across something that Google churned up, from Ishkur's sample database. It would seem that The Prodigy's "Speedway" would sample an Orbital track. Which one? Why, Lush 3.1 it seems. Alas, I couldn't find a decent sample of Speedway to make my point with.

I found it for you...


The prodigy-speedway.
http://mp3.juno.co.uk/MP3/SF21252-02-02-02.mp3

and...

Lush 3.1
http://www.amazon.com/gp/music/clip...6178520-3199115

No point...no musical relation...and even if there was a sample it was just another sample that orbital borrowed form someone else...something that was commonly and frequently done over and over again...

quote:

Anyway, I said earlier that the percussion combined with the semi-irregular kick gives the impression of a break.

LOL, so is it an impression of a break or an actual break?!? If it is an "impression" than it is an "illusion", something that actually is not what it appears to be and therefore appears different.You are a very confused young man...

Also,The little "experiment" you performed there doesn't prove anything other than the fact that if someone starts alleviating sounds and layers of sound than the music will actually sound different (and even "shift genres")!!!

quote:

Yeah. The Orb's "Little Fluffy Clouds" and FSOL's "Papua New Guinea" also appear on that mix. Two ambient house records. Because, you know, it's not impossible for trance mixes to use other genres.

WOW, I thought that "papua new guinea" and "Huge Ever Growing Pulsating Brain That Rules From The Center Of The Ultraworld" by the orb to be trance classics.Also, "go" by moby, "no good-start the dance" by prodigy, "cowgirl" by underworld and many others to be "trance classics", and this doesn't come by me, but by DJ magazine's techno page editor Richard Brophy. He has stated once, during a review, that "trance isn't like it used with those great tunes back then..."a view that i also aspouse!.

Anyway, "ambient-house"?!?Nice term, too bad that it doesn't exist!!!You know i can invent thousands of terms...dynamic ambient, ambient-dance, art-trance, sympho-tech,ethereal house,progressive techno,pimp-house,clit-house,...etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

Each seperate tune in Leftfield's "leftism" album could also be assigned a genre of their own!!!Clearly this doesn't happen, it's just progressive house.Why?Because there is no need for extra genres.In wikipedia's terms again...progressive house is(again)...

"Progressive house has its origins in Britain in the early 1990s, with the output of the Guerrilla record label and Leftfield's first singles (particularly "Song of Life") and then Mixmag editor Dom Phillips to coin the term. In 1992, what was to be the first superclub, Renaissance threw open its doors in the small mining town of Mansfield, and its DJs - particularly Sasha and the then-unknown John Digweed - were instrumental in pushing the sound in its early days. The music itself consisted of the 4-to-4 beat of house music allied to deeper, dub-influenced basslines and a more melancholic, emotional edge. Often, the ethereal "swirly" textures of early TRANCE(to remind the strong presence of trance) could be heard in the mix, and various other elements from across the electronic spectrum. "Song of Life", for instance, has a trip-hop like down-pitched breakbeat and a high-energy Roland TB-303 riff at various stages."

That's all there is. progressive house(at least in the past) contained these specific elements and as a result, song of life and halcyon+on+on fit the description just fine!!!there is no need for an extra "ambient-pimp-tech-folkpolka" to describe them. IMO early proggy house was nothin more than a mid-tempo housey rhythmh, accompanied with trance and techno elements such as dubby textures and arpeggiating melodies, nothing more, nothing less.


Now , the first mistake you frequently perform. Genres as i have said in the past are not objective but suggestive.No one seems to hear. There are no objective criteria of how genres are defined, or whether a tune would fit a specific genre. There are no genre-classificatory systems such as in the animal kingdom. the very nature of genres which describe "music", something that is very abstract and complex makes genre-categories extemely ill-defined and grounded in uncertainty.
Wikipedia also says:

"Subjectivity
One of the problems with the grouping of music into genres is that it is a subjective process that has a lot to do with the individual's personal understanding and way of listening to music. This is especially true in SUB-GENRES". One example is Led Zeppelin, which could be called heavy metal, hard rock, or blues, depending on one's interpretation. Another difficulty with grouping artists into genres is that, for many, their style of music changes over time.

Some genre labels are quite vague, and may be contrived by critics; post-rock, for example, is a term devised and defined by Simon Reynolds. Another example of this is video game music, which while defined by its media, can also represent its own style, as well as that of any other musical genre."

and

Resistance
"Categorizing music, especially into finer genres or sub genres, can be difficult for newly emerging styles or for pieces of music that incorporate features of multiple genres. Attempts to pigeonhole particular musicians in a single genre are sometimes ill-founded as they may produce music in a variety of genres over time or even within a single piece. Some people feel that the categorization of music into genres is based more on commercial and marketing motives than musical criteria. John Zorn, for example, a musician whose work has covered a wide range of genres, wrote in Arcana: Musicians on Music that genres are tools used to "commodify and commercialize an artist's complex personal vision"."

From Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_genre

A second mistake that you frequently perform is that because you don't have certain criteria(and nobody has since there are no genre-classification-manuals) to perform you genre-comparisons(and these criteria are suggestive in their very nature), there is a mess of biased logic through-out your posts(which unfortunately i have responded to)of which tune fits a particular genre.

E.g. you compare one element such as the the drum -pattern to support your claims but this is totally biased. One element is simply not enough to lead into a categorisation, one has to explore,analyse and compare more elements at once.Even then, subjectivity and uncertainty would rule again because:

An element may be the "most important element for categorisations"( a drum pattern) for you such as to be the "best characteristic/attribute" (or "Exemplar")of a category/genre but not to be the "main exemplar" (attribute of greatest importane) for me.In simple words a drum pattern is what defines an EDM sub-genre for you but i found the "arpeggiation melodic patterns" to be a better representative of "trance"and therefore to be of higher importance in the categorisation procedure in relation to the drum-patterns. There are no objective criteria of which characteristic/element/attribute is of greater importance!

Therefore, your view is totally egocentric, you just use your own subjective view of what defines(which element) a specific music sub-genre and you take it for granted, using it in an objective way and even getting very harsh about that!



A third serious mistake you frequently perform

You confuse "Scenes" with "genres". According to wikipedia a "Scene" is nothing more than a form of "subculture" such as "punk-rock scene" or "gaming scene".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scenes

Whereas a "music-genre" is according to wikipedia:

"A music genre is a category (or genre) of pieces of music that share a certain style or "basic musical language" (van der Merwe 1989, p.3). Music may also be categorized by non-musical criteria such as geographical origin though a single geographical category will often include a wide variety of sub-genres(although this is very stupid IMO...). It can also be said that a music genre (or subgenre) is defined by the techniques, the styles, the context and the themes (content, spirit)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Musical_genre

Scenes and genres are not the one and the same!!!Orbital may had co-existed with prodigy and MBM in the vague early british "rave-scene" but definitelly not in the same "genre".Prodigy and MBM were on "hardcore", "breaks", "big-beats" whereas orbital on "techno", "progressive", "ambient" and yes "trance" something clearly evident in the samples i have posted!!!

Thanks for attending.Hope you liked my post.ciao!

I could have made a lengthy post detailing my exact reasoning behind assertions to dispose of your attempts to be intellectual (which amount to copying and pasting from Wikipedia). I could have rectified your twists of my words to fit your own reasoning. I could have reminded you of the course of this debate which lead to failings in your replies. I could have put up your awful ad hominem diversions. However...

quote:

Originally posted by PETRAN WOW, I thought that "papua new guinea" and "Huge Ever Growing Pulsating Brain That Rules From The Center Of The Ultraworld" by the orb to be trance classics.Also, "go" by moby, "no good-start the dance" by prodigy, "cowgirl" by underworld and many others to be "trance classics", and this doesn't come by me, but by DJ magazine's techno page editor Richard Brophy. He has stated once, during a review, that "trance isn't like it used with those great tunes back then..."a view that i also aspouse!. Anyway, "ambient-house"?!?Nice term, too bad that it doesn't exist!!!You know i can invent thousands of terms...dynamic ambient, ambient-dance, art-trance, sympho-tech,ethereal house,progressive techno,pimp-house,clit-house,...etc. etc. etc. etc. etc.

And here's exactly where I gave up any lingering will to argue with such a clown. You think Papua New Guinea, any of the Ultraworld album, Go, No Good and Cowgirl to be trance?

I rest my case, your honour.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Great album, one of my all time favorites but I forgot to put it in my original list...I added it, thanks

I don't know. ESCM in my opinion is full of great songs, but as albums go it just doesn't flow. BT's song choices just didn't mesh enough to give that CD an overall feel or dominant emotion. Like puzzle pieces that didn't fit. BT is brilliant, but makes his cds like me when I'm burning a quick mixtape for a car ride or something.

quote:

I could have made a lengthy post detailing my exact reasoning behind assertions to dispose of your attempts to be intellectual (which amount to copying and pasting from Wikipedia). I could have rectified your twists of my words to fit your own reasoning. I could have reminded you of the course of this debate which lead to failings in your replies. I could have put up your awful ad hominem diversions. However...

Yes you SHOULD do that but unfortunately there would be nothing to be said since i'am not having a philosophical conversation here, i'm just posting facts from wikipedia and psychological theories on categorisation kid!This is about facts and you have misinterpreted a lot of them. Where can i start from...

1) That collaborations between people, sample-borrowing and remixes are indications that these artists belong in the same "Scene" (or genre?)

2) A failure to understand the concept of genre subjectivity?

3) Treating your own subjective perceptions as objective and getting harsh about it?(kick-drum is like this then it is X)


4)A confusion between "scenes" and "genres" and theorising them as one and the same?(Orbital's sound as closer to prodigy not because they share any musical characteristics but because they belong to the same british vague rave/techno scene.)

it's funny how you get mad about it and instead of responding with something meaningfull, you state that i am a "clown" because i "think" papua and "ultraworld" are trance. Rofl.Anyway that's not what i said but DJ mags techno page editor Richard Brophy idiot, not me. I just agree with him.(unfortunately i don't have adocument)!!!


Rest in Peace.

Could you shut the fuck up now? Thank you.

quote:

Could you shut the fuck up now? Thank you.

Don't be so mean Mr.Mysery.

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