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-- Breaking News: Isreal and Lebanon at War?
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lol, if it weren't for you guys i wouldn't know a thing about this

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Originally posted by Psy-T lol, if it weren't for you guys i wouldn't know a thing about this

As far as I know, there's plently of dissent in Israel, including some IDF soldiers who refused to serve in the Occupied terrirories. I guess it's no surprise that they're marginalized there.

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Originally posted by tathi Did you watch Dateline last night Renegade and PKC? The IDF were shooting at reporters in Gaza to create a media blackout to prevent the rest of the world from finding out what's happening there; one belgium reporter got hit in the center of his fluero yellow MEDIA flak jacket by what they think was a sniper, they kept on firing at the Australian reporter who was surrounded by Palestinian kids who kept on yelling "don't be scared, keep filming" to get the message out to the rest of the world. They showed all these grape crops and orange trees plantations that the IDF Bulldozers levelled that were these families only livelihood, there were IDF Tanks blocking the path to the hospital of three Palestinian ambulances that were filled with Palestinian civilians who'd been seriously injured in IDF strikes. One school that was donated and built by the UN had become a makeshift hospital for the many civilians who'd been injured in Israeli strikes. This IDF state-sponsored terrorism and collective punishment is disgusting, how does Israel expect to maintain the moral high ground when it's actions are as bad as Hamas? How many Palestinians is one Israeli life worth?

A media black out is, unfortunately, almost to be expected. They eigther blame the victims (i.e. Palestinians) for "instigating" or claim an incident to be an "accident." But you already know that.

Iran will probably get involved in this shortly.


Things are not looking good over there AT ALL.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/07/12/D8IQPH280.html

It's pretty much war now. I hate to sound like an ass.. but.. it was going to come to this eventually... Both sides refuse to cooperate.. cycle of escalation... and boom.

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Originally posted by hardcore trancer Iran will probably get involved in this shortly. Things are not looking good over there AT ALL.

I just hope this doesn't turn into an all out regional war.

bummer

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN yeah, punish an entire people for the actions of a few

Well they've held the state of Lebanon responsible and sabi10 is advocating an attack on the state. The populace always suffers, that's the way wars work. Don't get me wrong Id love it i when two states went to war it was just one set of politicians bombing another set of politicians, unfortunately the body politic is more than just the politicians.

I know this might sound like a random question, but how common is miscegenation among Jews, Arabs and the Lebanese?

Well this is all news to me. Be it not so very nice of news to hear.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi Did you watch Dateline last night Renegade and PKC? The IDF were shooting at reporters in Gaza to create a media blackout to prevent the rest of the world from finding out what's happening there; one belgium reporter got hit in the center of his fluero yellow MEDIA flak jacket by what they think was a sniper, they kept on firing at the Australian reporter who was surrounded by Palestinian kids who kept on yelling "don't be scared, keep filming" to get the message out to the rest of the world. They showed all these grape crops and orange trees plantations that the IDF Bulldozers levelled that were these families only livelihood, there were IDF Tanks blocking the path to the hospital of three Palestinian ambulances that were filled with Palestinian civilians who'd been seriously injured in IDF strikes. One school that was donated and built by the UN had become a makeshift hospital for the many civilians who'd been injured in Israeli strikes.

What's this got to do with Lebanon?

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This IDF state-sponsored terrorism and collective punishment is disgusting, how does Israel expect to maintain the moral high ground when it's actions are as bad as Hamas? How many Palestinians is one Israeli life worth?

This Hezbollah state-sponsored terrorism and raiding of Isreali soldiers is disgusting, how does the Hezbollah expect to win when it's actions and agenda are constantly dragging in innocent people?

This works both ways tathi so let's not jump on the Zoinist bandwagon when the Hezbollah are clearly sponsered pawns in a much bigger battle.

The fact of the matter is, Isreal isn't going anywhere and as soon Hezbollah get that through their thick skulls and actually try and compromise instead of constant guerrilla RPG attacks, the area has no hope.

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Originally posted by tathi How many Palestinians is one Israeli life worth?

According to the Palestinians, 1000. *


*Source:
"Israel's stance could be hardening: No deals"
Palestinians recently demanded the release of 1,000 prisoners in exchange for [one] Israeli Cpl. Gilad Shalit,
http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/...-no-deals_x.htm

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r What's this got to do with Lebanon?

it merely illustrates the modus operandi of the IDF

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN it merely illustrates the modus operandi of the IDF

If you're refering to the non-Isreali solution dating back to '49 (the Armistice Agreement) I agree, you'd think after 70 years they would have this all resolved by now.
Obviously 'buffer' zones don't work...

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're refering to the non-Isreali solution dating back to '49 (the Armistice Agreement) I agree, you'd think after 70 years they would have this all resolved by now. Obviously 'buffer' zones don't work...

What you may or may not know about buffer zones is that they were stretches of land used as buffers between israeli and palestinian territory. The buffer zones were all located on technically (by the UN anyway) palestinian territory.. said zones were controlled by the israeli military. Now therein, lies the problem.

As bolded below, the U.N. called for disarmament of the Hizballah in Lebanon a couple years back...

quote:

US Holds Iran, Syria to Account for Hizballah Hizballah Employs Hamas' Operational and Strategic Model of Hostages As France Condemns Israeli Response By Steve Schippert Following the Hizballah attack in Israel that resulted in several IDF soldiers dead and two kidnapped, the United States blamed Syria and Iran and the President Bush called for the immediate release of the soldiers without conditions of a prisoner swap. Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist minced few words stating �We must hold the governments of Syria and Iran accountable for their continued support to Hezbollah.� Setting the stage for unwavering support for Israeli military actions in response, Senator Frist continued, �So long as these governments are failing to live up to their responsibilities, no one should question the right of the government of Israel to act in self-defense against terrorists operating from Lebanon.� Present in Israeli responses and missing from the American responses was condemnation of Lebanon�s government and holding them accountable for the actions of Hizballah. Following the assassination of Lebanese Prime Minister Rafik Hariri, UN Security Council Resolution 1559 not only called for the complete military withdrawal of Syrian forces from Lebanon, but it also called for �the disbanding and disarmament of all Lebanese and non-Lebanese militias,� most significant among them the Iranian-founded Hizballah in southern Lebanon. It is no mistake that the government of Lebanon was not named the sole executor of this order, as Hizballah is armed, financed and trained by Syria and Iran, with a headquarters in Damascus at the behest of their Iranian masters. But while the US has avoided holding the Lebanese government responsible, Israel has approved a wave of Lebanon air strikes that reportedly will target not only Hizballah but civilian infrastructure. It should be noted that the entire southern region of Lebanon is considered Hizballah territory and functions nearly as an autonomous region under the Islamist control of the Hizballah Islamic terrorist group. Meanwhile, France condemned the Israeli attacks in response to the Hizballah kidnappings while calling for the release of the two IDF soldiers. Hizballah has followed the model set into action by Hamas in Gaza: Cross into Israel, launch an attack on a vulnerable IDF position or vehicles, kill those you can and take the injured prisoner in order to demand a lopsided prisoner exchange. With widespread condemnation for the IDF�s Gaza offensive both loud and regular, Hizballah and their Iranian masters surely seek to harness the same favor from a response they knew would be both certain and harsh. With Hizballah�s acknowledged cooperation with the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas, the model is almost certainly less �followed� than shared. Israel followed their own model as well after yet another troop abduction: The Israeli Air Force took out key bridges that could be used as egress routes for prisoner transport, making mobility more difficult in the area, followed by an incursion of troops and armor in search of their missing troops. As France has telegraphed, the prevailing world reaction will almost certainly contain more condemnation of Israel, which remains confronted by enemies who purposefully station themselves amongst their civilian populations.

>>Source<<

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r If you're refering to the non-Isreali solution dating back to '49 (the Armistice Agreement) I agree, you'd think after 70 years they would have this all resolved by now. Obviously 'buffer' zones don't work...

goddamn you partisan hacks fuck me off. no, im not talking about the fucking buffer zones. im talking about israeli military shooting at members of the press. you might be able to turn a blind fucking eye to that kind of activity but those of us that consider ourselves largely neutral observers certainly fucking dont.

you and Q5 are getting worse by the month.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r As bolded below, the U.N. called for disarmament of the Hizballah in Lebanon a couple years back... >>Source<<

I really like your post. If you read the paragraph below the one you posted, you will see that Lebanon should NOT be held solely responsible as the southern region of Lebanon is functions "nearly as an autonomous region". The US and UN hold Syria and Iran as the culprits (read the title) so what's the deal with going within 10 miles of Beirut?

In effect, Israel is not targetting Hizballah but seems to me (and most likely others) that Lebanon is being targetted. Civilian infrastructures are considered as legitimate targets.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you and Q5 are getting worse by the month.

dude? what did i do?

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Originally posted by Q5echo dude? what did i do?

lol

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Originally posted by Q5echo dude? what did i do?

haha, nothing in particular. but i find your brand of partisan politics to be annoying as all hell. for those of us that sit (kindve) in the center and like to draw from both spectrums, those that continually tow the party line undermine their own position (for me at least).

but for instance, your halliburton thread, does it really need to bash the 'left'? as if the left (or right) is one massive synthesis of political thought that agrees the whole time; or that there is something fundamentally wrong with all leftist ideals all of the time? or that those that might criticise the halliburton contract are necessarily leftist?

come on, lets not get silly now

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r This Hezbollah state-sponsored terrorism and raiding of Isreali soldiers is disgusting, how does the Hezbollah expect to win when it's actions and agenda are constantly dragging in innocent people? This works both ways tathi so let's not jump on the Zoinist bandwagon when the Hezbollah are clearly sponsered pawns in a much bigger battle.

Which is why i said "how does Israel expect to maintain the moral high ground when it's actions are as bad as Hamas?" and add to that Hezbollah - i agree it works both ways, all parties involved are just as bad as each other, and i'm just as quick to condemn terrorist attacks against Israel as i am to condemn attacks against Palestine.

quote:

Originally posted by psychosomatica In effect, Israel is not targetting Hizballah but seems to me (and most likely others) that Lebanon is being targetted. Civilian infrastructures are considered as legitimate targets.

Its targeting both, Israel can no longer afford to make a distinction between the terrorist and those the harbor and support them.

If you want the safety and security of your citizens, infastucture, and economy, do not let terrorist use your country. End of story.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN haha, nothing in particular. but i find your brand of partisan politics to be annoying as all hell. for those of us that sit (kindve) in the center and like to draw from both spectrums, those that continually tow the party line undermine their own position (for me at least). but for instance, your halliburton thread, does it really need to bash the 'left'? as if the left (or right) is one massive synthesis of political thought that agrees the whole time; or that there is something fundamentally wrong with all leftist ideals all of the time? or that those that might criticise the halliburton contract are necessarily leftist? come on, lets not get silly now

point taken. Halliburton is a target exclusively of the left's and is used very deceitfully to incite most of the time.

my frustration with the "left" could take pages and pages of HTML text to rationalize. not gonna do it.

...however i would like to see you jump down Opus's throat every once in a while if you are so inclined to guage from the middle.

what sometimes is even more frustrating, though, is centrists (not you in particular) that sit on that fence of some very serious life and death issues and often look down on the rest of us trying to make a difference one way or another, for better or for worse.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi "how does Israel expect to maintain the moral high ground when it's actions are as bad as Hamas?"

That's an impossibility and utter nonsense. If the Zionists were on any sort of "moral high ground" ever, or had any sense of elementary morality, pirnciples, or ethics, they wouldn't make a country exclusively for an non-indigenous populuation on LAND THAT WAS ALREADY INHABITED! This whole mess is entirely their fault, and there's simply no debating that. If it weren't for them, this situation wouldn't exist in the first place.

I apologize in advance tathi if you took any offence to that, I'm obviously not trying to target you in any way. Even the thought of any moral legitimacy of the state of Israel or it's actions is highly offensive and a slap in the face for the Palestians who've been butchered, brutalized and humiliated for the entire duration of it's existance (i.e. Israel). It doesn't take a vast intellect or a higly sophisticated moral consciousness to figure that one out.

EDIT: Before you guys attack me (Fir3Start3r, Q5 etc.), there is absolutely nothing partisan about sticking to elemtary morality, unless that something unique to the left (and before you get your panties in a bunch, I'm not implying that).

EDIT2: Another thing, that doesn't mean I think one side should be eliminated or any nonsense of the sort. Despite the desparity of their plight, both sides need to fucking wake up to the fact that their "leadership" doesn't give 2 shits about the well being or interests of the general population. Correct me if I'm wrong, but for the most part, both sides (the people) are fucking sick of this by now and just want to live in peace.

yeah shit, i just read about this on aljazeera.net website... what the fuck is going on here, i didn't think there was THIS much friction there... guess i was wrong.

>JM<

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