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I remember last time CA had mass blackouts all our news stations would say "In Texas, that wouldn't happen...we have great power grids...blah blah blah". Next thing you know we're having small rolling blackouts a couple years later in Austin and SA.

quote:

Originally posted by Electrophile No Thrax, you are wrong! Why would we need to upgrade? I know the population is growing and I know that business is expanding and there are hundreds of new homes being built everyday and we can expect this trend to continue for years and years BUT we should just keep cutting back on our electrical usage until we can barely complete our day to day tasks, then we can think about upgrading.

they shouldn't even make thermostats that go up to 90! they should range from 40-70 degrees! don't you people see! conserving energy just means al qaeda wins!

Why the hell should I conserve if I am the one paying the bill? I would rather pay out money than be uncomfortable. Next thing you know cars will come with a fuel capacity of 5 gallons since there is a "gas shortage" and we need to conserve fuel.


By the way, its 3:43 am and my AC is blowing and the temp in my house is a cool 60 degrees according to my thermostat. Edison must love me...

i agree! i should be allowed to drive a 3mpg half-track and leave my garden hose running all day during a drought! fuck the world! mine mine mine! now excuse me while i pour motor oil that i paid for down my sink...

wtf is this about a power shortage?

quote:

Originally posted by Protege wtf is this about a power shortage?

la county is having rolling brown-outs and poor air quality because electrophile is leaving his a/c at 60 degrees when he's not home. it's cool though, cause he's paying for it /america

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc la county is having rolling brown-outs and poor air quality because electrophile is leaving his a/c at 60 degrees when he's not home. it's cool though, cause he's paying for it /america

Damn you ruben! one more reason to jump in the ocean

Yesterday, July 24th, The California Independent System Operator (CAISO) declared a Stage 2 Electrical System Emergency due to high temperatures, high electrical loads, and forecasted deficiencies in operating reserves across the CAISO control area.

At that time, the ISO has declared that Operating Reserves were currently, or forecast to be, less than 5%. If Operating Reserves deplete further, The CAISO will be curtailing Voluntary Interruptible Loads.

If Operating Reserves fall below 1.5%, the ISO will declare a Stage 3
Electrical System Emergency and may begin rolling blackouts.

County Of Los Angeles employees are asked to conserve wherever
possible. Further alert notifications will be sent to County employees upon Stage Alerts called by the State.

For more information and helpful hints, go to;
http://lacounty.info/energy_conservation_tips.htm

quote:

Originally posted by TSG Yesterday, July 24th, The California Independent System Operator (CAISO) declared a Stage 2 Electrical System Emergency due to high temperatures, high electrical loads, and forecasted deficiencies in operating reserves across the CAISO control area. At that time, the ISO has declared that Operating Reserves were currently, or forecast to be, less than 5%. If Operating Reserves deplete further, The CAISO will be curtailing Voluntary Interruptible Loads. If Operating Reserves fall below 1.5%, the ISO will declare a Stage 3 Electrical System Emergency and may begin rolling blackouts. County Of Los Angeles employees are asked to conserve wherever possible. Further alert notifications will be sent to County employees upon Stage Alerts called by the State. For more information and helpful hints, go to; http://lacounty.info/energy_conservation_tips.htm

come on electrophile, FIGHT THE POWAAA!!! don't let caiso win this one!

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc come on electrophile, FIGHT THE POWAAA!!! don't let caiso win this one!

Oh they won't win. I am burning coal in my backyard right now! Why you ask? No reason at all


By the way, I don't live in L.A. county

quote:

Originally posted by Xtracktor Damn you ruben! one more reason to jump in the ocean

I don't like the ocean.

quote:

Originally posted by Electrophile Oh they won't win. I am burning coal in my backyard right now! Why you ask? No reason at all By the way, I don't live in L.A. county

Hi Ruben Where do you live?

quote:

Originally posted by Electrophile I don't like the ocean.

Hence my point for saying it

One day you will embrace the ocean!

quote:

Originally posted by TSG Hi Ruben Where do you live?

He lives in "the crown" or as JC calls it "FuNkYtOwN"

... and where might that be?

quote:

Originally posted by TSG ... and where might that be?

usa tu espanol

Man, fuck the energy companies. I'll use as much as I need and when I need it. it's not us.. it's their inability to provide enough energy due to internal decision making prompts them to run ads and campaigns to promote conservation so they don't have to update their systems and capacity. I'm sorry, but in the wake of Enron I don't believe a single fucking thing they say. Oh, and there are enough back-up systems in the dark that could provide enough to power to fill in the void with a few hours notice, but they choose to not fire them up so the whole "OMG, WE'RE OUT OF ENERGY; WE NEED TO RAISE THE PRICE BECAUSE YOU'RE DEMAND IS TOO HIGH AND YOU HAVE TO PAY A PREMIUM TO GET MORE POWER" game works to create more profit. Oh, and it's the consumer's fault for rolling blackouts because we didn't conserve enough. rolleyes.

omg it's a conspiracy! christ i'm tired of hearing everyone trying to stick it to the power company yeah like that's really gonna happen! they are just going to double your rate and if you keep being stupid and drain the grid down to the last of the reserve then enjoy your rolling black-outs.

i'm not saving energy for their sake, i'm saving for my own wallet's sake, for the principle of don't take more than you need and for the sake of the environment. when it's 107 degrees out like it was today, EVERYONE is blasting a/c everywhere like it's goin out of style. combine that with the co2 released from cars all over the road and all these emissions just work to trap more heat in the air. keep burning energy carelessly and then bitch about how much hotter the days are getting. all you "wiseguys" are doing is just compounding the problem. i rather enjoy the fact that our bay area skies aren't hazy and brown like los angeles, but if you guys like your brown-outs and filthy air, hey, there's more in store for you yet! YTMND!

increasing capacity and allowing people like you to continue wasting energy instead of starting to be conscious of your useage is no solution to the problem. gimme a break

too bad global warming doesn't exist. somebody has to blame it on something, right?

that's it, the intellectual capacity for this thread has been breached. please restart your computer,

yes global warming a liberal myth! god you really sound a childish brat right now... when you see a sign that says do not touch, do you go out of your way to break whatever it's referring to? it's time to grow up thrax

not really, you're the one that is coming off like a hippie. I am free to think whatever I want, but I am not placing myself above others or have to resort to bashing to prove a point.

is this state fucked in so many ways, six ways from sunday: yep.

do I still love living here: yep.

I am not saying I blatently abuse and overuse energy. Sure I turn my a/c off when I go to work, keep it at a goddamn normal temperature and turn off the lights when I leave.

Whatever point or beliefs you wanted to make/have I respect it.

Can we just be TA friends? I was never really good in debate.

why not do what my buddy did? he drilled a tiny little hole in his meter and stuck a coffee stirrer in there to stop that little wheel from spinning and measuring. he leaves it out all day while he's at work, when he gets home he sticks the straw in, stops the meter from spinning, and uses the ac all night. he also leaves the straw in all weekend long. the 'man' only comes to check the meter every so often and its always during the day and never on the weekend. the hole is so tiny, you wouldn't be able to notice it unless somebody pointed it out to you. does this make sense to anybody? he's been doing it for about a year and a half and hasn't got caught and his neighboor has been doing it for about 10 years. it really works

quote:

Originally posted by ivanbee why not do what my buddy did? he drilled a tiny little hole in his meter and stuck a coffee stirrer in there to stop that little wheel from spinning and measuring. he leaves it out all day while he's at work, when he gets home he sticks the straw in, stops the meter from spinning, and uses the ac all night. he also leaves the straw in all weekend long. the 'man' only comes to check the meter every so often and its always during the day and never on the weekend. the hole is so tiny, you wouldn't be able to notice it unless somebody pointed it out to you. does this make sense to anybody? he's been doing it for about a year and a half and hasn't got caught and his neighboor has been doing it for about 10 years. it really works

Sounds like a good plan...

quote:

Originally posted by lex400sc omg it's a conspiracy! christ i'm tired of hearing everyone trying to stick it to the power company yeah like that's really gonna happen! they are just going to double your rate and if you keep being stupid and drain the grid down to the last of the reserve then enjoy your rolling black-outs. i'm not saving energy for their sake, i'm saving for my own wallet's sake, for the principle of don't take more than you need and for the sake of the environment. when it's 107 degrees out like it was today, EVERYONE is blasting a/c everywhere like it's goin out of style. combine that with the co2 released from cars all over the road and all these emissions just work to trap more heat in the air. keep burning energy carelessly and then bitch about how much hotter the days are getting. all you "wiseguys" are doing is just compounding the problem. i rather enjoy the fact that our bay area skies aren't hazy and brown like los angeles, but if you guys like your brown-outs and filthy air, hey, there's more in store for you yet! YTMND! increasing capacity and allowing people like you to continue wasting energy instead of starting to be conscious of your useage is no solution to the problem. gimme a break

I will never be in the dark baby, I have a generator to power my house for days if need be. DIESEL POWER!!!

My skies aren't all hazy and brown I live on a lake about 45 minutes out of L.A.

Where is all the smog? Where is all the haze?

quote:

Originally posted by Xtracktor usa tu espanol

Por que? No te gusta mi Espanol, digo mi Espanglish?

Ok.... Damn, why do people always have to start getting all pissy when trying to talk about certain subjects? To those that say "oh I'm going to use as much as I want cuz I pay for it" and/or "screw them ... blah, blah, blah." What are you trying to prove? That you're some bad ass mofo?
Yeah, there was probably a time that I said the same things when told about conserving electricity, gas, or water... but you know what? I still wasn't able to get gas when I wanted to, only on certain days that were said to be for those with license plates ending in even numbers. I also went through a Christmas where people were told not to use Christmas lights to decorate the windows and other things around the house. I think of the people in Mexico or Central America where at a certain time, all electrical power goes off! As for the water... well there was a time if you were caught watering the lawns or even washing your car with your hose... you got cited.

So with that being said, when told to conserve and help out... I try to do my share of conserving even if I pay the bills. It's not fun being without certain neccessities (things we take for granted) for many hours or days.

quote:

Originally posted by |Thrax| too bad global warming doesn't exist. somebody has to blame it on something, right? that's it, the intellectual capacity for this thread has been breached. please restart your computer,

What you think you know climate shifts may not be the whole story, after all...

MISCONCEPTION 1
"Scientists disagree about whether humans are causing the Earth's climate to change."
In fact, there is strong scientific consensus that human activities are changing the Earth's climate. Scientists overwhelmingly agree that the Earth is getting warmer, that this trend is caused by people, and that if we continue to pump greenhouse gases into the atmosphere, the warming will be increasingly harmful.

MISCONCEPTION 2
"Lots of things can impact climate--so there's no reason we should single out CO2 to worry about."
Climate is sensitive to many things besides carbon dioxide--sunspots, for one, as well as water vapor. But this just proves how much we should worry about CO2 and other human-influenced greenhouse gases. The fact that the climate system has been shown to be sensitive to many sorts of natural changes throughout history should serve as a red flag: We need to pay close attention to the massive and unprecedented changes we're causing. We have become more powerful than any force of nature.

MISCONCEPTION 3
"Climate naturally varies over time, so any change we're seeing now is just part of a natural cycle."
Climate does naturally change. By studying tree rings, lake sediments, ice cores, and other natural features that provide a record of past climates, scientists know that changes in climate, including abrupt changes, have occurred throughout history. But these changes all took place with natural variations in carbon dioxide levels that were smaller than the ones we are now causing. Cores taken from deep in the ice of Antarctica show that carbon dioxide levels are higher now than they have been at any time in the last 650,000 years, which means we are outside the realm of natural climate variation. More CO2 in the atmosphere means warming temperatures.

MISCONCEPTION 4
"The hole in the ozone layer causes global warming."
There is a relationship between climate change and the ozone hole, but this isn't it. The hole in the ozone layer--a part of the upper atmosphere that contains high concentrations of ozone gas and shields the planet from the sun's radiation--is due to man-made chemicals called CFCs, which were banned by an international agreement called the Montreal Protocol. The hole causes extra UV radiation to reach the Earth's surface, but it does not affect the Earth's temperature.

The only connection between the ozone layer and climate change is almost the exact opposite of the myth stated above. Global warming--while not responsible for the ozone hole--could actually slow the natural repairing of the ozone layer. Global warming heats the lower atmosphere but actually cools the stratosphere, which can worsen stratospheric ozone loss.

MISCONCEPTION 5
"There is nothing we can do about climate change. It's already too late."
This is the worst misconception of all. If "denial ain't just a river in Egypt,"despair ain't just a tire in the trunk. There are lots of things we can do--but we need to start now. We can't ignore the causes and impacts of climate change any longer. We need to reduce our use of fossil fuels, through a combination of government initiatives, industry innovation, and individual action. Dozens of things you can do are outlined in this resource guide.

MISCONCEPTION 6
"Antarctica's ice sheets are growing, so it must not be true that global warming is causing glaciers and sea ice to melt."
Some ice on Antarctica may be growing?though other areas of the continent are clearly melting and a new 2006 study shows that overall the ice is shrinking in Antarctica. Even if some of the ice is getting bigger, not shrinking, this doesn't change the fact that global warming is causing glaciers and sea ice to melt around the world. Globally, more than 85% of glaciers are shrinking. And in any case, localized impacts of climate change don't cancel out the global trends that scientists are observing.

Some people also mistakenly claim (in Michael Crichton's novel State of Fear, for instance) that Greenland's ice is growing. In fact, recent satellite data from NASA shows that Greenland's ice cap is shrinking every year, causing sea levels to rise. The loss of that ice doubled from 1996 to 2005. Greenland lost 50 cubic kilometers of ice in 2005 alone.

MISCONCEPTION 7
" Global warming is a good thing, because it will rid us of frigid winters and make plants grow more quickly."
This myth just doesn't seem to die. Because local impacts will vary, it's true that some specific places may experience more pleasant winter weather. But the negative impact of climate change vastly outweighs any local benefits. Take the oceans, for example. Changes to the oceans caused by global warming are already causing massive die-offs of coral reefs, which are crucial sources of food and shelter for creatures at every stage of the ocean food chain, all the way up to us.

Melting ice sheets are causing sea levels to rise, and if big ice sheets melt into the ocean, many coastal cities around the world will flood and millions of people will become refugees. These are just some of the consequences of global warming. Other predicted impacts include prolonged periods of drought, more severe flooding, more intense storms, soil erosion, mass species extinction, and human health risks from new diseases. The small number of people who experience better weather may be doing it in a landscape that is nearly unrecognizable.

MISCONCEPTION 8
"The warming scientists are recording is just the effect of cities trapping heat, rather than anything to do with greenhouse gases."
People who want to deny global warming because it's easier than dealing with it try to argue that what scientists are really observing is just the "urban heat island" effect, meaning that cities tend to trap heat because of all the buildings and asphalt. This is simply wrong. Temperature measurements are generally taken in parks, which are actually cool areas within the urban heat islands. And long-term temperature records showing just rural areas are nearly identical to long-term records that include both rural areas and cities. Most scientific research shows that "urban heat islands" have a negligible effect on the overall warming of the planet.

MISCONCEPTION 9
"Global warming is the result of a meteor that crashed in Siberia in the early 20th century."
This may sound absurd to some of us, but it's a real hypothesis suggested by a Russian scientist. So what's wrong with it? Basically, everything. The impact of a meteor, much like a volcanic eruption, might have immediate effects on climate if it were large enough. But there is no record of warming or cooling during the period after this meteor hit. The effects that would have been produced by the meteor would have involved water vapor, which only stays in the upper atmosphere for a few years at the most. Any effects would have been short-term, and could not be felt this far in the future.

MISCONCEPTION 10
" Temperatures in some areas aren't increasing, so global warming is a myth."
It is certainly true that the temperature is not rising at every point on the planet. In Michael Crichton's novel The State of Fear, characters pass around graphs that show specific places around the world where temperatures are decreasing slightly or remaining the same. The graphs represent real data from real scientists. But while they may be fact, they don't prove the point. Global warming refers to the rise in the average temperature of the entire Earth's surface due to increased levels of greenhouse gases.

Because the climate is an incredibly complex system, the impacts of climate change will not be the same everywhere. Some areas of the globe--such as northern Europe--might actually become colder. But this does not change the fact that overall, the surface temperature of the planet is rising, as are the temperatures of our oceans. The gains have been demonstrated by several types of measurements--including satellite data--that show the same general results.

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