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-- The truth about the Israeli/Lebanese war
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quote:

Originally posted by Boeing777 http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/5255966.stm

omg no

i believe Lebanon won't be the same again

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher I do support the idea however of Hesbollah coming out and actually fight, not hide behind civilians.

Israel has world class weapons and one of the most powereful armies in the world. Lebanon doesn't. Why would they hezboollah fighters go out in the open and fight against a an army waaay more powerful than theirs? The only way to fight back is guerilla warfare, which is exactly what hezbollah is doing.

The world has it confused. a guerilla fighter is not a terrorist. A terrorist is not fighting for something. A guerilla fighter is.
For every action, there's a reaction.

If i have a gun in a restaurant and your outside and i want to kill u, doesnt mean you destroy the entire restaurant. Thats just evil.

Rockets were fired only after the first israeli air strike.

either way, israel has the right to live in safety, so do palestinians, lebanese, syrians, iranians and all the other middle eastern countries whom israel is technically at war with.

this man speaks the truth.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher I do support the idea however of Hesbollah coming out and actually fight, not hide behind civilians.

If it is not rubbish what you write it's a jolly lies jump party that you're struggling to convince your own conscience to accept.

Lies upon pack of lies that's what some in hear like to believe and shamelessly defend without the slightest hint of commonsense.

Continue to lose credibility amongst those who thought your cause was fair.

People from all backgrounds have seriously started to question the terror of the Israeli regime. A regime that will blow a filthy reputation on every Jewish who defends it.

Alot of you young kids fail to see the big picture.
The reason why Hezbolla is created (everyone agrees Hezbolla military power should be dissolved) is because of Israeli offensive for more than 25 years. The main reason why Hezbolla has been arming and training since 2000 (Israel withdrew from most of the lebanese land but not all) is Israeli occupation of Shebaa Farms and up to 10 000 lebanese prisoners in Israel dungeons for more than 20 years (noone knows they even exist anymore).

It's a shame that most of the media and ignorant people think this War began 4 weeks ago. But in fact it has been going on for 25 years and the core issues are not dealt with. Instead israel is pushing its offensive on Lebanon everyday thinking they can weaken Lebanese cause and Lebanese sensible religious/community structure.

So for those claiming that Hezbolla must be irradicated go read some history before you justify your claims.
Lebanese spent more than 6 months on a dialgue table and were very close on fiding a solution for Hezbolla arms, but unfortunately Israel disproportional destruction on Lebanon have set back the country 20 years back that Hezbolla arms issue will be unsolvable.

quote:

Originally posted by ZinG Alot of you young kids fail to see the big picture. The reason why Hezbolla is created (everyone agrees Hezbolla military power should be dissolved) is because of Israeli offensive for more than 25 years. The main reason why Hezbolla has been arming and training since 2000 (Israel withdrew from most of the lebanese land but not all) is Israeli occupation of Shebaa Farms and up to 10 000 lebanese prisoners in Israel dungeons for more than 20 years (noone knows they even exist anymore). It's a shame that most of the media and ignorant people think this War began 4 weeks ago. But in fact it has been going on for 25 years and the core issues are not dealt with. Instead israel is pushing its offensive on Lebanon everyday thinking they can weaken Lebanese cause and Lebanese sensible religious/community structure. So for those claiming that Hezbolla must be irradicated go read some history before you justify your claims. Lebanese spent more than 6 months on a dialgue table and were very close on fiding a solution for Hezbolla arms, but unfortunately Israel disproportional destruction on Lebanon have set back the country 20 years back that Hezbolla arms issue will be unsolvable.

Word bro

quote:

Originally posted by ZinG Alot of you young kids fail to see the big picture. The reason why Hezbolla is created (everyone agrees Hezbolla military power should be dissolved) is because of Israeli offensive for more than 25 years. The main reason why Hezbolla has been arming and training since 2000 (Israel withdrew from most of the lebanese land but not all) is Israeli occupation of Shebaa Farms and up to 10 000 lebanese prisoners in Israel dungeons for more than 20 years (noone knows they even exist anymore). It's a shame that most of the media and ignorant people think this War began 4 weeks ago. But in fact it has been going on for 25 years and the core issues are not dealt with. Instead israel is pushing its offensive on Lebanon everyday thinking they can weaken Lebanese cause and Lebanese sensible religious/community structure. So for those claiming that Hezbolla must be irradicated go read some history before you justify your claims. Lebanese spent more than 6 months on a dialgue table and were very close on fiding a solution for Hezbolla arms, but unfortunately Israel disproportional destruction on Lebanon have set back the country 20 years back that Hezbolla arms issue will be unsolvable.

well said

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher I actually have just realized that I have a problem with the title of this thread - it's not the Iraeli/Lebanese war...it's the Israeli/Hesbollah war...but that's just me

It's not just you.

The title is wrong.

Mazen said it...

Personally I am sick of all this shit. Fuckin terror here and there. If this keeps up I am pretty sure the middle east will be nothing but a hole in the ground, and then will see who will blame who.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Ah yes...a member of the British parliament is an expert on Middle East relations no doubt...suddenly everyone's an expert

Let me lol at this please.

LOL.


As soon as anyone argues that Israel is unjustified doing what it's doing, you guys just try to discredit the information instead of presenting a counter-claim.

So does everyone in the PDD that has a star of david in their little location/flag thing. WOW.

If Israel would stop being a poopyface and move back to the line designated in 67 then there'd be peace between Hamas and Israel, if Israel opted to allow an outside NEUTRAL country(ies) to re-structure and secure Lebanon there would be peace between Hizbullah/Israel.

Sadly, there are very few neutral countries willing to step up to the plate, seeing as how israel is in itself a special interest project created by the USA/Britain + Other rich countries at the time, and Lebanon/Palestine have both had their infrastructures infiltrated by outside interests, IE: Iran/Syria... The whole peace thing seems a long way off, especially when you have to countries that border Israel that have no control over themselves (Or very little).

The question is, can ISRAEL control them both? I find it unlikely that they could, Israel is mighty but not mighty enough to catch every single suicide bomber that makes his way across the border. And lets face it, even if Israel manages to destroy Hizbullah or weaken it significantly (which they're having trouble doing) there will be a line-up a mile long of Hizbullah wannabes that will gladly strap explosives to themselves and get on an Israeli subway train/bus/walk into a crowded mall or cafe etc etc.

This problem will only get solved if both sides concede A WHOLE LOT.

Israel would have to be willing to return many of the prisoners it took that STILL HAVE YET TO BE CHARGED WITH ANYTHING.

Hizbullah would have to return the captured soldiers, and agree to be more or less assimilated or fused into the Lebanese military and be CONTROLLED by a sensible government. That way, if Hizbullah attacks again, the WORLD can respond and interject and not just Israel who will no doubt overstay they're welcome by about 15 years and continue to piss everybody off till they, again, want to blow up as many Israelis as possible.

Historically, Mr. Galloway is correct in regards to the events that have unfolded between Israel/Palestine/Lebanon. He is outspoken, which often makes him seem radical, but he isnt, he is just passionate. He (unlike me however) believes that Israel deserves to lose this conflict, I dont believe in anyone winning or losing, I want PEACE which is more or less a win for everyone. PEACE will not just pop up out of no where, IT WILL TAKE A MORE NEUTRAL STANCE BY FOREIGN AND POWERFUL GOVERNMENTS TO END THIS NONSENSE. NEUTRALITY IS THE KEY, NOT SILLY SIDE-TAKING YOU SCRATCH MY BACK ILL SCRATCH YOURS. SYRIA/IRAN/USA/OTHERS WOULD HAVE TO WORK TOGETHER IN ORDER TO MAKE A LONG-LASTING AND STABLE RELATIONSHIP IN THE REGION. Will it happen? I believe it could, the trickiest one to bring on board would be Iran, given they're statements regarding Israel... But I think they could be persuaded none the less, there are members of every government that see REASON, so I'll remain optimistic.

So long there are are organizations with the destruction of Israel in their charter, there will be no peace. Hezbollah will never give up until Israel is gone, plain and simple.

the zionism renaissance

We understand current situations by looking back at history. this put more light on who really deserves the word �terrorist�.

Claiming that Lebanese civilians aren't meant to be targeted while everything in Lebanon is being destroyed is a joke that writes itself.

LMAO, I love Pallywood!

OK I'll come back to this thread just for a sec to talk about "History" as some people seems to want to talk about it...

1948 - The eve of proclamation of the state of Israel - Israel is attacked by Egypt, Trans-Jordan, Syria, Lebanon and Iraq

1956 - Sinai campaign - blockade of Israeli ships, military buildups, and military alliances by Egypt, Syria and Jordan - Israel conquered all of Sinai peninsula and then returned it.

1967 - Six day war - prior to the conflict - continuous arab raids across the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, persistent Syrian artillery bombardment of agricultural settlements in northern Galilee and massive military build-ups by the neighboring Arab states. The conflict itself - Egypt moved large numbers of troops into the Sinai desert, ordered the UN peacekeeping forces out of the area, reimposed the blockade of the Straits of Tiran and entered into a military alliance with Jordan. Israel found itself faced by hostile Arab armies on all fronts.

1973 - Yom Kipur war - the holiest day of the Jewish year, Egypt and Syria launched a coordinated surprise assault against Israel , with the Egyptian army crossing the Suez Canal and Syrian troops penetrating the Golan Heights.

And there's lots of fun in between...

So basically it just keeps going on and on and on...and we're not even going into the whole PLO issue up in Lebanon and the stuff that was going on in Lebanon before...

Egypt as well as Jordan have managed to accept Israel's existance over the years and have signed peace treaties...there are friendly relations now between the 3 counties...now I just wish the others would too...



K I'm out again

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher Egypt as well as Jordan have managed to accept Israel's existance over the years and have signed peace treaties...there are friendly relations now between the 3 counties...now I just wish the others would too... K I'm out again

peace only when they come with a resolution for palestinians

peace will come once you have a difference between church and state

as long as there are islamic extremists, or even jewish extremists for that matter, there will not be peace[URL][/URL]

quote:

Originally posted by djlemeir peace will come once you have a difference between church and state as long as there are islamic extremists, or even jewish extremists for that matter, there will not be peace[URL]

djlemeir as long as we keep alienating people and labeling them there will be always extremists. And what Bush and his gang are doing is a perfect element for extremists to prosper.
America is trying to police the world. And alot of unjust conditions apply.

As far as lebanon-israel concerned, once Israel and Lebanon deal with the core issue of the problem there will never be peace between them.

1- Israel Hands Shebaa Farms to UN force
2- Israel releases all lebanese prisoners from its dungeons
3- Israel hands all landmine maps since its withdrawal from lebanon in 1982
4- Israel respects lebanese air/sea/land space

If those points are respected by Israel you will automatically see no reason for Hezbolla to have arms and Lebanese will disarm it themselves.

If this kind of attitude is approached to the palestinian issue it would have been the same case.
But having Israel ceasing land whever it wants, killing, invading whenever it wants, will never solve the problem.

I really hope you realize what I mean. Stop approaching this issue with violence and solve the core problems.
I think Sharon was almost on the right track but with unilateral withdrawal he did not solve anything. It is with agreement of other parts that Israel can achieve peace.
Israel can never achieve peace with its neighbors if it only thinks that its interest is the only thing existing in the region.
Neighbors of Israel also have rights to live in peace and have rights for their lands and such...
enough said.
Don't want to hear this terrorist crap again. Nothing is solved with violence.

quote:

Originally posted by ZinG djlemeir as long as we keep alienating people and labeling them there will be always extremists. And what Bush and his gang are doing is a perfect element for extremists to prosper. America is trying to police the world. And alot of unjust conditions apply. As far as lebanon-israel concerned, once Israel and Lebanon deal with the core issue of the problem there will never be peace between them. 1- Israel Hands Shebaa Farms to UN force 2- Israel releases all lebanese prisoners from its dungeons 3- Israel hands all landmine maps since its withdrawal from lebanon in 1982 4- Israel respects lebanese air/sea/land space If those points are respected by Israel you will automatically see no reason for Hezbolla to have arms and Lebanese will disarm it themselves. If this kind of attitude is approached to the palestinian issue it would have been the same case. But having Israel ceasing land whever it wants, killing, invading whenever it wants, will never solve the problem. I really hope you realize what I mean. Stop approaching this issue with violence and solve the core problems. I think Sharon was almost on the right track but with unilateral withdrawal he did not solve anything. It is with agreement of other parts that Israel can achieve peace. Israel can never achieve peace with its neighbors if it only thinks that its interest is the only thing existing in the region. Neighbors of Israel also have rights to live in peace and have rights for their lands and such... enough said. Don't want to hear this terrorist crap again. Nothing is solved with violence.

Couldnt have said it better myself.

sky news...hmmm funny how every news station and news papers has their own opinions about everything...but let us believe this guy since he works for Sky news...

Monkey version of hirtory.

quote:

Originally posted by starsearcher And there's lots of fun in between...

That’s a very silly way of putting it then calling the most important details as “fun in between”

Your version is nearing perfect prejudice as if for no apparent reason and out of the “bloom”; every Arab country in the Middle East started attacking and hating Jews in 1948. As Galloway says, your lectured knowledge of history which seems to have started ticking in 1948 is gravely fragmented if not flawed in the most inconsistent way.

Do not under estimate those who have supported the cause for a Jewish and peaceful land. We know history right where you avoid it or attempt to discredit it by calling it “fun in between”.

I cannot possibly support colonists because history has shown that they all failed sooner or later. Should Jewish be treated one day the way Palestinians have been since 1948. Only then you’d understand what it feels to be a blamed victim.

Your freedom doesn’t depend on your neighbors death and suffering or watchama call it “terrorist here and terrorist there”

History never forgets. History is merciless.

When you talk about historical facts look at one simple evidence; UN resolutions ignored by Israel. Since you like listing numbers, here are some that speaks of grave violations.

Grave UN Resolutions ignored by Israel: 106, 111, 127, 162, 171, 228, 237, 242, 248, 250, 251, 252, 256, 259, 262, 265, 267, 270, 271, 279, 280, 285, 298, 313, 316, 317, 332, 337, 347, 425, 427, 444, 446, 450, 452, 465, 467, 468, 469, 471, 476, 478, 484, 487, 497, 498, 501, 509, 515, 517, 518, 520, 573, 587, 592, 605, 607, 608, 636, 641, 672, 673, 681, 694, 726, 799…

Starsearcher,

You can't start talking about the history of Israel without mentioning the Balfour Declaration back in 1917.

Basically, the Brits, in all their wisdom, decided to give another someone elses land to the Zionist movement so that the Jews could have a homeland. Why? Well during WWI, every country, economy shattered from the war, was involved in vying for the Jewish lobby. Yes, even back then, the Jews had power and wealth. The Brits eventually beat out other countries including ze Germans who had a chance to make allies with the Zionist movement but failed.

Interestingly enough, the Jews themselves employed "terrorist" tactics against the Brits when they tried to curb the Jewish immigration into Palestine. Lookup the Stern Gang.

Anyways, the history of the conflict goes way beyond the facts you mentioned. Some might say even before Islam was created.

US 'knew of Israel bombing plan'

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4792961.stm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by habsfan
Starsearcher,

You can't start talking about the history of Israel without mentioning the Balfour Declaration back in 1917.

Basically, the Brits, in all their wisdom, decided to give another someone elses land to the Zionist movement .

Interestingly enough, the Jews themselves employed "terrorist" tactics against the Brits






first of all to say they give the land away from the palestinians would imply that at a point and time they governed the land known as palestine which unfortunately was never the case before that the land belong to the turkish empire. There has never in the entire history of this earth been a land governed by the palestinian people.
The term Palestinians as a nationality doesnt even exist circa 1968


As for the jewish terrorism against the brits notice the difference is before lechi bombed the king david hotel they called in a bomb threat and got the building evacuated. The difference being that they had no intention of killing anyone be it civilians or army officials this never the less is not a good thing to do but cannot be put on the same level as a jihad fighter blowing themselves up on a crowded bus.

people who put rocket launchers in hospitals, schools and in residential buildings fully knowing that they will be hit are not a worthy party to negotiate with.

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