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-- Someone please define "techno" for me.
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Originally posted by basd There's a step or three beyond Mills and Liebing when it comes to hard techno, though.

Yeah there probably is, but i'm not familiar with the really hard or underground hard techno stuff, just people like those guys. I know about techno, but can't say I really like it other than dancing to it at a club or festival. I guess I prefer trance and progressive house as genres to listen to and spin, but lately i've been into Smith & Selway's releases.

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Originally posted by DJ RJT Well, thanks for all the thoughtful replies guys. I've just been bothered recently by some local, and intarweb, DJ's who seem to have this exceptionally narrow view of just exactly what "techno" is. They seem to think that what they listen to/spin is the definition of "techno" and ONLY that definition can encompass exactly what "techno" is.

The Belleville Three originally said that techno is any electronic music that is forward thinking. While that certainly can't be said about everything that gets labeled techno that is released these days, it also means that techno cannot be so easily confined to common denominators such as loop/tool tracks or "minimal". Thus, techno can sound like this, just as much as it can sound like this, or this. That's a good thing to keep in mind when people are so hellbent on pigeonholing things these days.

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Originally said by Mark Newlands (Nasenbluten/Bloody Fist) "As we all know, pigeonholes are there to be shat in."

derrick may, stacey pullen, juan atkins, kevin saunderson, and technasia. watch the movie high tech soul, me and my peeps brought a special screening with the director to miami about 2 weeks ago. good times.

Derrick May's thoughts

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Slow or fast (depending on the type) mechanical sounding music that tends to be rhythmic. It doesn't rely on melody as much as trance does, and it is more about the technology and the beat. Theres hard techno, which tends to be the fastest, such as Chris Liebing or Jeff Mills. There is minimal, ambient and "intelligent" techno (aka IDM), which tends to be the slowest, such as Richie Hawtin/Plastikman, Robert Hood, Aphex Twin, Oval, Pan Sonic, Autechre, or FSOL during their "Lifeforms" stage and some of Carl Craig's and Josh Wink's stuff. Then there's Detroit techno, which seems to be not as fast as hard techno, nor as slow as minimal/ambient/IDM. Seems to be the most melodic of the techno forms. Such guys as Derrick May, Juan Atkins, Stacey Pullen, Carl Craig and Kevin Saunderson. Then there's the european and funky stuff, like stuff Carl Cox plays. This is a fusion of tech-house and acid house, hard and tech-trance, progressive and tribal house and hard and detroit techno. I guess there's influences all over with european techno, and not all of them are from europe, but are inspired by it (UK, Belgium, Swedish, German). I guess some example would be Smith & Selway, Funk D'Void, Joey Beltram, Michel De Hey, Oxia, Ian Void, Chris Anderson, Filterheadz, as well as innovators like Oliver Lieb and Svan Vath etc, who have influenced both european techno and trance. Haha this is my best way to describe techno...hope I got it right.

shit I'm confused now... I have always thought of techno as a genre faster than house in terms of bpm, with lots of percussion in it, sort of Liebing style.

Now I have a question, how can you tell the difference between minimal/tech house and minimal techno?, other day in another forum some john doe was trying to convince me that Digweed plays minimal techno?! I mean it sounded a lot like minimal techy house but to be honest everything these days is being labeled as minimal/tech house so I'm kinda lost here too.

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Originally posted by luisjb82 shit I'm confused now... I have always thought of techno as a genre faster than house in terms of bpm, with lots of percussion in it, sort of Liebing style.

As I've said, techno is a hugely varied genre, and the BPMs are no exception. Equally- give me a BPM for house. House is conventionally regarded as 120BPM, but hard house and prog house are faster, as is some acid house.

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Now I have a question, how can you tell the difference between minimal/tech house and minimal techno?, other day in another forum some john doe was trying to convince me that Digweed plays minimal techno?! I mean it sounded a lot like minimal techy house but to be honest everything these days is being labeled as minimal/tech house so I'm kinda lost here too.

There's fuck all difference really. Minimal house is a bit more funky, but both genres are so musically devoid it's splitting **** hairs.

OMG
******s
http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html

this shit should end all "please define ______ for me"

I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mauro Picotto.

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Originally posted by movingincircles OMG ******s http://www.di.fm/edmguide/edmguide.html this shit should end all "please define ______ for me"

Some people like to use multiple sources, and form their own opinion. If that's too much for you, then I'm sorry.

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Originally posted by movingincircles I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Mauro Picotto.

There are so many more good DJ's that are still not mentioned here.. Picotto's decent, that's true, but not essential by any means (at least, not to me).

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Originally posted by basd There are so many more good DJ's that are still not mentioned here.. Picotto's decent, that's true, but not essential by any means (at least, not to me).

I think he's one of the best, DJ-wise. And you can't deny songs like Lizard, Iguana, and Komodo marked an era back in the day. But hey, that's just my two cents.

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Originally posted by woscar99 I think he's one of the best, DJ-wise. And you can't deny songs like Lizard, Iguana, and Komodo marked an era back in the day. But hey, that's just my two cents.

I already said he's a decent DJ

Those singles have got little to do with anything Picotto does as a techno DJ, though. Plus I don't agree on the 'marking an era' part, but again, that's me.

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Originally posted by basd I already said he's a decent DJ Those singles have got little to do with anything Picotto does as a techno DJ, though. Plus I don't agree on the 'marking an era' part, but again, that's me.

OK, I think I went a little overboard with the "marking an era" thing, but they were pretty big in those days. Specially here in my country.

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper just as much as it can sound like this

ch00n

Unlike trance that sounds like it was prefabricated to soundtrack some bad 16-bit video game back in the mid nineties, techno (short for technology) is an art-form that evokes strong spiritual feeling!

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Originally posted by harriz Unlike trance that sounds like it was prefabricated to soundtrack some bad 16-bit video game back in the mid nineties, techno (short for technology) is an art-form that evokes strong spiritual feeling!

that's just so true!

Trance is the most emotional genre. It can make you cry, make you shout, make you cheer, and make you celebrate absolutely nothing short of pure, ecstatic bliss.

When i listen to trance i feel like it takes me to a different world, where every song has its own story to tell, and which the imagination in your mind creates a movie of the song...

Trance is my high.

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Originally posted by harriz Unlike trance that sounds like it was prefabricated to soundtrack some bad 16-bit video game back in the mid nineties, techno (short for technology) is an art-form that evokes strong spiritual feeling!

So a really emotional, beautiful tracks like Hydra's "Affinty (Thrillseekers Dub)", Corderoy's "Sweetest Dreams (Ferry Corsten Remix)" or Kalafut & Fygle's "3579 KM", or Mark Otten's "Mushroom Therapy (Lightscape Mix)" or "Tranquility" wouldn't give you a spiritual feeling? To me, the really euphoric, melodic and beautiful trance and progressive has much more of a spiritual feeling in it than what is commonly thought of as techno. To me it's just too mechanical (techno). Sure there's probably lots of melodic techno tracks out there too, but these trance tracks (and many others) just really have it and are highly artistic. I dunno if your being sarcastic or what..

I agree with Phate89, but seems like a lot of the trance released this year lacks this feeling and soul that it used to have, even a year ago. I don't hate techno, but I wouldn't say it evokes as many strong feelings as trance does, and I don't think that is techno's purpose. It's more about pushing technology for experimentation or making highly danceable music for clubs, festivals, raves etc. I think trance has become more than this, it's not as experimental or rhythmic, beat-based music as techno is, as trance relies more off of melodic, compositional structures (well the epic and progressive sides of it does).

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Originally posted by harriz Unlike trance that sounds like it was prefabricated to soundtrack some bad 16-bit video game back in the mid nineties, techno (short for technology) is an art-form that evokes strong spiritual feeling!

Is that a fact?

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Originally posted by harriz Unlike trance that sounds like it was prefabricated to soundtrack some bad 16-bit video game back in the mid nineties, techno (short for technology) is an art-form that evokes strong spiritual feeling!

Holy shit! A maze of ironies.

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Originally posted by thoughtlessjex Holy shit! A maze of ironies.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 So a really emotional, beautiful tracks like Hydra's "Affinty (Thrillseekers Dub)", Corderoy's "Sweetest Dreams (Ferry Corsten Remix)" or Kalafut & Fygle's "3579 KM", or Mark Otten's "Mushroom Therapy (Lightscape Mix)" or "Tranquility" wouldn't give you a spiritual feeling? To me, the really euphoric, melodic and beautiful trance and progressive has much more of a spiritual feeling in it than what is commonly thought of as techno. To me it's just too mechanical (techno). Sure there's probably lots of melodic techno tracks out there too, but these trance tracks (and many others) just really have it and are highly artistic. I dunno if your being sarcastic or what.. I agree with Phate89, but seems like a lot of the trance released this year lacks this feeling and soul that it used to have, even a year ago.

Your 'trance was better a year ago' assumption is widely known in the dance world as Ishkurs nine month honeymoon effect.
The truth is that epic trance sucked a year ago it sucks now and it will suck a year from now.

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I don't hate techno, but I wouldn't say it evokes as many strong feelings as trance does, and I don't think that is techno's purpose. It's more about pushing technology for experimentation or making highly danceable music for clubs, festivals, raves etc. I think trance has become more than this, it's not as experimental or rhythmic, beat-based music as techno is, as trance relies more off of melodic, compositional structures (well the epic and progressive sides of it does).

Dont confuse spiritual feeling with cheep trills
Unlike epic trance which is as artistic and original as sunday afternoon soap-operas, techno music is music for the thinking electronic music fan that has reason and reflection!

But lets be fair... there is great progressive house and trance out there... artists like... Luzon, Kosmas Epsilon, Yunus Guvenen, Pole Folder, Nathan Fake, Moshic, Max Graham e.c.t. but they will never sell anywhere near as much as the epic trance people do unless they license their tune for a Tie$to-brand compilation.


To be honest with you I am happy trance exists.
Record stores sell Tie$to-brand products to your average 'Joe Bread-cracker' consumer, they make enough money to pay the bills and as a result of that we have a place to find quality electronic music on physical formats.
Quality music that is based on complex texture not little mediocre pop 'till I come' hooks!
Quality music that sounds 'too mechanical' to you...

Last I looked hard to find records had an entire section of their shop dedicated to Oakenfold-brand products... unbelievable... this guy is so special there that he has his own f*#$^!@n genre section!
Only in the Uk!

quote:

Originally posted by harriz Your 'trance was better a year ago' assumption is widely known in the dance world as Ishkurs nine month honeymoon effect. The truth is that epic trance sucked a year ago it sucks now and it will suck a year from now. Dont confuse spiritual feeling with cheep trills Unlike epic trance which is as artistic and original as sunday afternoon soap-operas, techno music is music for the thinking electronic music fan that has reason and reflection! But lets be fair... there is great progressive house and trance out there... artists like... Luzon, Kosmas Epsilon, Yunus Guvenen, Pole Folder, Nathan Fake, Moshic, Max Graham e.c.t. but they will never sell anywhere near as much as the epic trance people do unless they license their tune for a Tie$to-brand compilation. To be honest with you I am happy trance exists. Record stores sell Tie$to-brand products to your average 'Joe Bread-cracker' consumer, they make enough money to pay the bills and as a result of that we have a place to find quality electronic music on physical formats. Quality music that is based on complex texture not little mediocre pop 'till I come' hooks! Quality music that sounds 'too mechanical' to you... Last I looked hard to find records had an entire section of their shop dedicated to Oakenfold-brand products... unbelievable... this guy is so special there that he has his own f*#$^!@n genre section! Only in the Uk!

I concede that not all epic trance is good. But I am talking about the stuff with angelic voices, pianoes, guitars, euphoric melodies and almost new-age and tranquil qualities, not the over the top super-saw stuff. The tracks I listed aren't "huge" anthemic tracks. These tracks are beautiful, lush music among many others. They might not be the super-complex, thinking..intellectual stuff, rather they are for people like myself or others who are highly imaginative and are dreamers. We are people who like dreamy, emotional music, whether it's classical, soul, jazz, blues, rock, pop, ambient/downtempo, house or trance. This stuff isn't "pop till I come" stuff, it's beautiful, euphoric and melodic music. Feeling wise, it's not that much different than opera or classical or jazz, in it's use of melody and harmonics to create emotion. It's right brain music, and I mostly a right brain person. It's the whole idea to me about putting a human element inside technological music, rather than using technology to push limits with music..ie experimentation. I prefer warm, human sounding stuff yet with an ethereal quality to it (it dates back to when I, and I am sure other people on here, were into Enigma before we got into trance).

It's like Boards of Canada in your sig vs. Ulrich Schnauss. Boards of Canada is more experimental, more subtle and more technological, they appeal to people like you who like that kind of stuff. Ulrich Schnauss' music on the other hand is imaginative, melodic and dream like, with a spiritual and ethereal quality to it. Ulrich stuff can be experimental too, but the use of melody to convey this can't be denied. Listen to "Nobody's Home" by Ulrich, and tell me that doesn't strike a chord with you emotionally. It's the same with lush and beautiful trance music, not the huge cheesy anthems your making the stuff I like out to be (I used to be big into them for a few years, but not anymore). I'm into all of the progressive stuff your talking about as well (though I look for the deep, melodic stuff vs. the really rhythmic stuff), heck it's what I spin now and look for on Beatport, but also beautiful, melodic music period.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 I concede that not all epic trance is good. But I am talking about the stuff with angelic voices, pianoes, guitars, euphoric melodies and almost new-age and tranquil qualities, not the over the top super-saw stuff. The tracks I listed aren't "huge" anthemic tracks. These tracks are beautiful, lush music among many others. They might not be the super-complex, thinking..intellectual stuff, rather they are for people like myself or others who are highly imaginative and are dreamers. We are people who like dreamy, emotional music, whether it's classical, soul, jazz, blues, rock, pop, ambient/downtempo, house or trance. This stuff isn't "pop till I come" stuff, it's beautiful, euphoric and melodic music. . It's right brain music, and I mostly a right brain person. It's the whole idea to me about putting a human element inside technological music, rather than using technology to push limits with music..ie experimentation. I prefer warm, human sounding stuff yet with an ethereal quality to it (it dates back to when I, and I am sure other people on here, were into Enigma before we got into trance). It's like Boards of Canada in your sig vs. Ulrich Schnauss. Boards of Canada is more experimental, more subtle and more technological, they appeal to people like you who like that kind of stuff. Ulrich Schnauss' music on the other hand is imaginative, melodic and dream like, with a spiritual and ethereal quality to it. Ulrich stuff can be experimental too, but the use of melody to convey this can't be denied. Listen to "Nobody's Home" by Ulrich, and tell me that doesn't strike a chord with you emotionally. It's the same with lush and beautiful trance music, not the huge cheesy anthems your making the stuff I like out to be (I used to be big into them for a few years, but not anymore). I'm into all of the progressive stuff your talking about as well (though I look for the deep, melodic stuff vs. the really rhythmic stuff), heck it's what I spin now and look for on Beatport, but also beautiful, melodic music period.

Yes Boards of Canada and Ulrich Schnauss make great music.

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Feeling wise, it's not that much different than opera or classical or jazz, in it's use of melody and harmonics to create emotion

I dont think you can get away with the trance-classical comparison because trance is far to elementary to be compared to classical in my opinion.

Spirit, you're being far too pretentious about epic trance and Harriz is a mysteriously unbanned would-be troll come techno snob.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Spirit, you're being far too pretentious about epic trance and Harriz is a mysteriously unbanned would-be troll come techno snob.

I don't plan on getting banned again so I wont answer MrMysterys posts and I will keep this argument, to the point and within reasonable length.
In other words you can insult me all you want I am not going to answer back.
I will however point some 'wrongs' out...
When Tie$to$ fluff is 'idillic' and '$ophi$ticated' while Wink gets 2 stars and an off the mark analogy involving video games and implying file sharing you out of all people should not talk about pretense.
The fact that you actually reviewed a great cd (guess which...) cannot make up for the fact that a Tie$to-brand product gets a better review from you than Josh Winks 20/20 artist album.
Because of that YOU are now as pretentious as some wanna-be reviewer would be if he bashed a real band like Radiohead and favored some garbage like the Backstreet Boys.
Way to go System.

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