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- Canada - Toronto & Southern Ont.
-- Trance Scene in T.O. circa 1999
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quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL this is what i read..

im pretty sure the ratio at one point was 1 for every 100. whether it was amended later on i dont know. But i do know that one main reason parties arent happening anymore is because the cop to partier ratio was way too high and costly.

In http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2001/...10924/it001.pdf

Is the 1-100 rule, it may have been changed tho

quote:

8. Security One bonded and OPP licensed security for every entrance location (secure the site) and one for every 100 patrons.

I guess thats for less then 500, since it stats the 2 for 500 rule below it.

Additionally theres another 'definition'

quote:

13. Definition of a Rave A rave is a public, all ages, commercial electronic music event held in a special event venue attended by ticket or pass holders generally extending into hours when entertainment venues are usually closed.

note how those communist bastards specifically target electronic music as well.

toronto has really become a shell of its former self thanks to these leftie pinko idiots that passed these laws.

quote:

Originally posted by Import In http://www.toronto.ca/legdocs/2001/...10924/it001.pdf Is the 1-100 rule, it may have been changed tho I guess thats for less then 500, since it stats the 2 for 500 rule below it. Additionally theres another 'definition'

that's strange, because if that's truly the legal definition, then technically if you threw a 19+ or something, ur potentially out of scope?

i think there's so much ambiguity in that definition, i mean what the hell constitutes 'electronic music'? i could book say the Prodigy and consider them a rock band, and what the government is supposed to be a genre expert in that regard? lol ..

As a party-goer I feeling like I've missed out on something big. I was introduced to the scene roughly around 02-03, then partied hard in 04 and 05. It was pretty fun I must admit, but from the stories i've heard from past generation clubbers, it feels like my scene was just the tail end of theirs. With each year it seems like the vibe deminishes, becomes stagnant and repetative. Clubs close, crowds scatter, but whatever I wont get into that, theres enough people whinning about the "scene" today. I think that if we're really pationate enough we could make Toronto a happening and vibrant city again. Why dont we throw cream parties at Downsview park or other types of organized, sponosored, legit parties at any number of suitable venues that Toronto has to offer? I realize the rave days are behind us, not all us want to suck on passifiers and G-out (altho i know some still do) but we can still create that party vibe again.

quote:

Originally posted by Tb. As a party-goer I feeling like I've missed out on something big. I was introduced to the scene roughly around 02-03, then partied hard in 04 and 05. It was pretty fun I must admit, but from the stories i've heard from past generation clubbers, it feels like my scene was just the tail end of theirs. With each year it seems like the vibe deminishes, becomes stagnant and repetative. Clubs close, crowds scatter, but whatever I wont get into that, theres enough people whinning about the "scene" today. I think that if we're really pationate enough we could make Toronto a happening and vibrant city again. Why dont we throw cream parties at Downsview park or other types of organized, sponosored, legit parties at any number of suitable venues that Toronto has to offer? I realize the rave days are behind us, not all us want to suck on passifiers and G-out (altho i know some still do) but we can still create that party vibe again.

here's my interpretation of why things are the way they are:

(long ass read below warning!!)


The electronic & dance music scene in TO has been around for quite some time, since the late 80's at least, but things only started to pick up steam around the late 90's when rave promoters began throwing massives (parties of upwards to 10,000-15,000 people) in large public owned venues (and some private as well). I remember just finishing highschool at the time and everyone would always talk about the next big event on the weekend. Many international DJs that we regularly see spin today in clubs played some of their first ever gigs in Toronto at these parties. It seemed as if anyone who was anyone had to be there. The whole Spin Saturday thing at Guv hadn't really taken off yet either and electronic music and what not was just starting to get really popular in the clubs save for old school house nights which had always been around since the late 80's/early 90's. Toronto had arguably one of the fastest growing electronic and dance music scenes in North America and was often heralded by many high profile DJs and artists like Bad Boy Bill as being one of the foremost places to play on the continent.

Anyways, all this continued without much incident or commercialization for that matter until some high profile incidents involving drug overdoses, namely that of Alan Ho and at Sauble Beach around 2000. By comparison, the number of deaths involving electronic and dance music at parties was far less than shootings, stabbings, and other incidents in clubs over the years. Unfortunately for electronic and dance music, the spectre of drug use was always in some way connected to the deaths and as a result, some argue through misrepresentation, or perhaps through misunderstanding, the whole problem became 'sensationalized' in the media and began to draw a lot of political attention in the city. Numerous other drug related incidents across Ontario, and for that matter across North America also began to attract a lot of media attention, as the spread of raves and electronic music in general began to grow rapidly across much of the United States and Canada.

By the summer of 2000, the City of Toronto had passed a bill banning raves from all city owned property. Various groups including promoters, rave communities, messageboard communities, and other industry related people through the PartyPeopleProject organized the first iDance Rally at Nathan Philips Square (City Hall). The rally was aimed at attempting to address many of the stereotypes and stigma that the general public seemed to have about raves and electronic music in an effort to have the ban lifted. Some estimates say that over 10,000 people attended the free event which was hosted by high profile industry personalities and featured international DJs like Bad Boy Bill, Derrick Carter, Jumping Jack Frost, Ed Rush & Optical, Miss Honey Dijon, Kenny Glasgow, Anabolic Frolic, Dynamite MC, and MC Flipside in one of Toronto's largest open air Electronic Music parties ever. In retrospect, Tranceaddict had just started up its online forum and was still a small but growing community. In electronic music, trance was exploding world wide after huge production releases in 1998-1999. Fortunately, for the scene here, the demonstration seemed to draw enough attention to the issue and the ban was put to vote at City Council and subsequently overturned. However, the troubles would continue.

In 2001, then Toronto police chief Julian Fantino and Mayor Mel Lastman continued their crusade to end raves in the city by exploring alternative ways of enforcing the events around the recently repealed ban on city property. Dialogues were held with industry representatives like the Toronto Dance Safety Committee (TDSC), as well as Toronto Health, and city officials in what gave birth to what is known today as the 'Toronto Rave Protocol'. The protocol outlines a set of standards that must be adhered to in the event that a rave (now legally defined) is to be held on city owned property. The terms of the protocol touched on everything from permits, regulated hours, and most especially the number of paid duty police officers required at each event. The last point was probably the most contentious issue as it allowed Toronto Police to essentially amend the required ratio of paid duty officers to patrons to a number that they felt was adequate to safely police the event. Many in the industry began to argue that the stipulation was unfair as the police could arbitrarily set the number of paid duty officers required at each event, thereby causing organizational costs to be so excessive that holding the event would no longer be economically feasible.

The issue gave way to the second iDance rally of 2001 when once again the same opponents came to the table to address the issue of the newly enacted protocol. Many of the same communities were represented once again and at the centre were older established groups such as Tribe whom people like Will Chang, co-founder of PartyPeopleProject and TDSC were a part of. The rally once again drew large crowds in the thousands and boasted some top international DJs with the likes of Dave Clarke and Andy C to name a few. One can even argue that the event itself began to draw some commercial attention with companies like Microsoft sponsoring the event to advertise its Xbox gaming console. By now, raves were being held all across North America and other parts of the world. Across the Atlantic, DJ Tiesto comes off his legendary Innercity Amsterdam performance kick starting his career into stardom. More importantly, trance and electronic music in general was really permeating into the club scene as many promoters began to host regular club nights featuring the music. The now renamed Guvernment (formerly RPM) and Koolhaus (formerly Warehouse) was no spectator to all this realizing the lucrative market as Mark Oliver and Spin Saturdays became a fixture in many people's weekend plans.

When the dust settled, the protocol stood its ground. Fantino and Lastman were still in office and the Queen, Richmond, Adelaide street corridors have never been more heavily policed. Some industry groups as well as Will Chang himself argued that the event was still a success as it was able to draw attention to the main issues at hand, and that no promoter has since faced any type of threat of having their party shut down by police in Toronto. Others argue that this is still up for debate.

Come summer of 2002, the dance community once again attempts to rally up another iDance, this time without success as the recent events of Sept. 11, 2001 cause insurance rates for large public gatherings to rise considerably. Unable to find a sponsor to help foot the bill, the iDance rally is no more. Some say simply due to a lack of continued passion about the issue or complacency. The protocol stays, raves become far and fewer, and privately owned clubs like the Guvernment begin to solidify their empire over the scene in the city. Co-incidentally this is the first year that Labour of Love is held at the large lakefront complex which is met with harsh criticism about over crowdedness and safety issues. Crowd control matters would continue as partygoers became increasingly faced with having to contend with either a packed club venue to enjoy hearing their world famous DJs or having to stay home. This older 'generation' of partygoers as some call them were forced to make a distinct choice. Some continue to party today, others seek out smaller more intimate venues and events, and some of course have now retired altogether. Again by comparison, large massives (many no longer even called raves) continued to occur elsewhere in the world. Some of the more notable ones like the Love Parade, Sensation White, Innercity Amsterdam, Trance Energy, Creamfields, Godskitchen Global Gathering, and Gatecrasher Summer Soundsystem were already into multiple years running. Not to mention corporately sponsored and recognized by various levels of government. Meanwhile back home, long running events like WEMF would continue to face legal hurdles even in having to host their events in quiet, but spacious remote venues outside of the city.

2003, 2004, etc. roll around and the popularity of trance and other forms of electronic music have now reached a heightened state. Though not yet having fully crossed over into mainstream culture, at least in North America, it continues to make an impact worldwide. The Tranceaddict community explodes as hordes of people everywhere try and seek-out the newfound sounds of Armin Van Buuren, Paul Van Dyk, and Tiesto. Many are thrilled to see some of their favourite DJs at clubs like the Guvernment having no basis for comparison as far as the scale of a party by numbers. At no fault of their own they wonder about what it was "like" in Toronto back in the day when we too were able to enjoy parties in large open spaces with this type of music. At this point, you could argue that an entire new generation of partygoers had emerged. They aren't necessarily 'clubbers' or 'ravers' but they truly support the music and the scene, but often lack the connection of its roots or realize the potential that this city once had to become something far greater.

2006. It's been virtually 5 years now since this city has seen a large dance event held on any venue with anything over 10,000 people in attendance. The Guvernment continues to steam away with its all access parties drawing new patrons each year. Without a doubt, other options do pop up. Clubs like Boa, Sonic, Republik, and the ever to open Circa offer alternatives to weekend dance activities. As club owners like Jerry Sprackman continue to engage in legal battles to save his club the Docks from noise complaints from island residents, meanwhile elsewhere in North America, Montreal celebrates its annual Bal en Blanc festival, Miami continues its Winter Music Conference having now introduced its latest import Global Gathering courtesy of Godskitchen, San Francisco hosts the first ever Love Parade in North America, and New York with its now annual Paul Van Dyk in Central Park concert is added to Dutch promoter ID&T's latest roster of Sensation White tour cities.

Somewhere out there a lone Toronto partygoer wonders when it'll be Toronto's turn again?

holee smokes .. i can't believe i juss typed all that ..

I never got to experience these days but have heard about them and read about them...I agree with you Az...I wish they would bring some of these parties back so I can experience them too! Haha

Holy CRAP Professor Emz!

I'll give you an A- for that essay. Well done.

Jay, Emz great comments... I also find it somewhat odd to think that the "raving generation" is at least in their mid 20's. There is very little younger generation ravers in Toronto. I attribute that to the death of the BIG parties and the move to the club (read 19+) where each EDM genres got split and we lost the community cohesion ie. trancers with junglists.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn I attribute that to the death of the BIG parties and the move to the club (read 19+) where each EDM genres got split and we lost the community cohesion ie. trancers with junglists.

totally agreed man ... i find that the scene today is very genre specific with not much cross over between the various styles of music at all. it also seems to have gotten to the point now where each style of music has formed its own cliques within the industry and doesn't seem open at sharing ideas or throwing shared events.

lol and thanks for the grading on the essay.. it was a total brain dump

Jay, can I call the cops to shut down Magna's Hoedown? Doesn't that night go out way late too?

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL totally agreed man ... i find that the scene today is very genre specific with not much cross over between the various styles of music at all. it also seems to have gotten to the point now where each style of music has formed its own cliques within the industry and doesn't seem open at sharing ideas or throwing shared events. lol and thanks for the grading on the essay.. it was a total brain dump

If anything I find the music more mixed together at clubs in Toronto over the past couple years compared to the 90s. It's much harder to find a pure techno/trance or breaks night now, in Toronto, than it was say 5 years ago.

Most clubs now seem to play more of a housey/proggy/techy and whatever else mix that doesnt seem to have a solid feel to it.

thats so sad the whole rave/edm scene met so much government resistance. If it didnt imagine how different the scene would be instead of dying down it wouldve got even bigger imagine that shit.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie Jay, can I call the cops to shut down Magna's Hoedown? Doesn't that night go out way late too?

exactly what ive always thought every year they have that. Belinda can have her party as late as she wants... WTF?

desidel: great post but some of the timelines are a bit off.

Guvernment was already hosting big name djs and mark was already playing a lot of (at the time) underground trance at guv as early as 97-98.

Also the dance culture in the world was at its peak during the 90s. It made a bit of a decline in the last 5 years as american influenced MTV Europe started polluting the new generation of europe with repeats of hip hop.

The problem is with toronto, most of the root cause of club/party demise is from the government. Its artificial. Just like it will be artiicial when they go after nightclubs (which they are now starting to do to appease the whiners)

Honestly, this is why im so adament about the government taking away our rights. Ive watched it over and over again and they always find something new to control in our life. Worse yet, they present it as something that is "for our own good". im sick and tired of it.

I find totally stupid for the government and the city of TO to bash EDM and big events by forcing large amounts of effin cops to be present. There is less trouble at Rave events, concerts like Tiesto at the docks, etc etc than going to something like Slayer or other metal band...

on a non-electronic music matter, every year I go to Woodstock in Quebec (used to live 20mins away) www.woodstockenbeauce.qc.ca ....and 70,000+ people show up over the weekend Booze up, smoke up and drug up all u want in there.....and no harrassment from the cops(except when you leave). The amount of drugs and alchohol taken on that weekend is greater than any Rave events in TO.....and its not a problem!
There is not a single cop on the premises, only at the entrance and exits. At any given time you'll find less than 20 cops... The funny thing is that they know that people go there to smoke weed and have a weekend of peace and fun....and dont put lame anti-partying law....

EDM has been flagged and deemed evil Sucks for us party goers!

Wat was the dominating genre of EDM during there "Golden" rave days

its been like this for about 6 years now. but too many people have been asleep at the switch. INFORM YOURSELVES AND VOTE IN NOV!!!

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ Wat was the dominating genre of EDM during there "Golden" rave days

house has always been the dominating force.

Other trends have come and gone but house has always been the main foundation to it all.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 desidel: great post but some of the timelines are a bit off. Guvernment was already hosting big name djs and mark was already playing a lot of (at the time) underground trance at guv as early as 97-98. Also the dance culture in the world was at its peak during the 90s. It made a bit of a decline in the last 5 years as american influenced MTV Europe started polluting the new generation of europe with repeats of hip hop.

oh yeah without a doubt Mark was rocking it back in 97-98. He played a big part in the development of the scene having played at many underground parties importing a lot of the sound we hear today from Scotland. Though what I was trying to emphasize in my post was that I don't think that Spin Sat. really started to gain the noteriety it has today atleast until 2000-2001 when trance really started to get popular in the dance scene, largely due to its spread and accessibility over the internet. I remember seeing Tiesto there the first time he played at the Guv (this was a few months after the first RaveStar Wintergalactic), the club was half empty! What was even funnier is that we only paid the regular $10 cover to see him lol ..

quote:

The problem is with toronto, most of the root cause of club/party demise is from the government. Its artificial. Just like it will be artiicial when they go after nightclubs (which they are now starting to do to appease the whiners) Honestly, this is why im so adament about the government taking away our rights. Ive watched it over and over again and they always find something new to control in our life. Worse yet, they present it as something that is "for our own good". im sick and tired of it.

The funny thing is that Toronto isn't the only city that's faced these types of problems in North America. We've all seen that video of the famous 'rave crackdown' in Utah. The sad thing is that why are we being compared to the likes of Utah to begin with? The Rave Act was passed in the US shortly after 9/11, yet laws there are beginning to be relaxed and we're seeing the emergence of many large scale events there again.

I truly believe that eventually the laws here will be amended allowing the city to re-establish many of the types of events that it once held but by then don't expect Toronto to be at the forefront of the dance culture scene in North America.

quote:

Originally posted by devnull I find totally stupid for the government and the city of TO to bash EDM and big events by forcing large amounts of effin cops to be present. There is less trouble at Rave events, concerts like Tiesto at the docks, etc etc than going to something like Slayer or other metal band... on a non-electronic music matter, every year I go to Woodstock in Quebec (used to live 20mins away) www.woodstockenbeauce.qc.ca ....and 70,000+ people show up over the weekend Booze up, smoke up and drug up all u want in there.....and no harrassment from the cops(except when you leave). The amount of drugs and alchohol taken on that weekend is greater than any Rave events in TO.....and its not a problem! There is not a single cop on the premises, only at the entrance and exits. At any given time you'll find less than 20 cops... The funny thing is that they know that people go there to smoke weed and have a weekend of peace and fun....and dont put lame anti-partying law.... EDM has been flagged and deemed evil Sucks for us party goers!

if i had to sum it up with 2 reasons, it'd be..

1. The scene's association with designer drugs.

2. The fact that electronic music still has not fully crossed over into mainstream culture in North America and therefore does not hold the same legitimacy or have the same level of corporate sponsorship as other types of music like Rap, Top40, and Alternative.


By large, it's still a very misunderstood genre of music and scene and general. It is growing, and getting more popular each year, but there's still a long way to go.

Desidel, that was such a GOOD read. You taught us new party goers so much. The EDM scene will bounce back again under the right conditions. Its just a matter of time and hopefully it happens soon, before I become 40 years old and too old to party.

i hope that we can get a mainstream presence for dance music again like there was in most of the 90s. That was a huge key ingredient.

Lets hope stations like 246 and energy 105 can influence new listeners like energy 108, global groove and CFNY used to do in the 90s.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 i hope that we can get a mainstream presence for dance music again like there was in most of the 90s. That was a huge key ingredient. Lets hope stations like 246 and energy 105 can influence new listeners like energy 108, global groove and CFNY used to do in the 90s.

well 246 seems to play nothing but house for the moment. there seemed to be so much more variety when it came to dance and electronic music back then.

i really hope that some of these stations start taking on a different formula soon ..

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL well 246 seems to play nothing but house for the moment. there seemed to be so much more variety when it came to dance and electronic music back then. i really hope that some of these stations start taking on a different formula soon ..

I think that taking on a new formula is hard simply because EDM as we know it has run out of originality for the most part. Everything new is just rehashed...I recall going to the Guv last weekend first time in a year and hearing almost the exact same tracks being played. In order for things to truly change I think the scene needs to die off completely followed by a new sound/scene/generation that is more open minded. Now, when and how that will happen, I truly don't know..I hope soon. On a sort of related note, I would like to see alot more live acts, more electronic bands, and a new breed of DJs that can change tracks and create something new each time they spin, kinda like what Sasha tries to do.

quote:

Originally posted by Tb. I think that taking on a new formula is hard simply because EDM as we know it has run out of originality for the most part. Everything new is just rehashed...I recall going to the Guv last weekend first time in a year and hearing almost the exact same tracks being played. In order for things to truly change I think the scene needs to die off completely followed by a new sound/scene/generation that is more open minded. Now, when and how that will happen, I truly don't know..I hope soon. On a sort of related note, I would like to see alot more live acts, more electronic bands, and a new breed of DJs that can change tracks and create something new each time they spin, kinda like what Sasha tries to do.

the TORONTO scene needs to wake up...

and Toronto promoters need to stop bringing the same dj's every 3 months....

there is a ton of awesome music and talented individuals out there, we are just not being exposed to it.

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