TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Political Discussion / Debate
-- Does Iran's President Want Israel Wiped Off The Map?
Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser Did Hitler really want to conquer Europe and exterminate the jewish race? Ask Chamberlain. |
Speaking of Hitler the only (cheap) hotel I could find in the city in Poland I'm visiting next month was frequented by Hitler when he went there!!! 
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley You think Iran wants to exterminate the Jewish race?  |
| quote: |
On September 27, 1938, when negotiations between Hitler and Chamberlain were strained, the British Prime Minister addressed the British people [1]. At the heart of why his critics view his policy as well-meaning but ultimately wrong [2] is this sentence from that speech: "How horrible, fantastic, incredible it is that we should be digging trenches and trying on gas masks here because of a quarrel in a far-away country between people of whom we know nothing." A mere 20 years before Chamberlain addressed the British people regarding his agreement with Hitler, WWI ended in The Versailles Treaty [3]. Czecho-Slovakia was one of the original members of the League of Nations signatories of the Versailles treaty of peace. Part I, Articles 27�30, addresses the Boundaries of Germany. Part III, Political Clauses for Europe, Section VII, of that treaty addresses the Czecho-Slovak State. Yet, Chamberlain characterised the Czechs and the Germans as "people of whom we know nothing". |
| quote: |
Like many other dictators, diplomats of the time operated under the assumption that the Nazi Party, and Hitler, were rational actors who would stop when their defined goals were achieved. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser Not realy. I do believe Ahmanindjad wants to destroy Israel though. |
Eventhough it's clear his comment was mistranslated and completely out of context. You have got to be kidding me.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Eventhough it's clear his comment was mistranslated and completely out of context. You have got to be kidding me. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shaolin_Z Eventhough it's clear his comment was mistranslated and completely out of context. You have got to be kidding me. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser First of all he said not once. He doesn't have to say extacly the words "I will destroy israel" to mean it. He repeatedly denies the Holocaust. and about that mistanslation.... you at least believe Al-Jazira? http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...3CE0E9957EA.htm |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser Not realy. I do believe Ahmanindjad wants to destroy Israel though. I just show you that no one believed than that Hitler would try to conquer europe and extermintae the Jews despite his actions and public statments. Here is a nice link, please read it: "Appeasement of Hitler" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeas...ace_in_our_time I'll just quote some small parts: |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Shakka Nobody is kidding. The only way that those comments being taken out of context would justify a bunch of silly smiley faces would've been if Ahmadinejad had said, "Israel should be wiped off the map...I keeed, I keeed. I love me some matzah!" How was it taken out of context (on multiple occasions)? Frankly, given Iran's support of Hezbollah in its fight against Israel, how are you so blind to the obvious? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser First of all he said not once. He doesn't have to say extacly the words "I will destroy israel" to mean it. In addition, He repeatedly denies the Holocaust. and about that mistanslation.... you at least believe Al-Jazira? http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exe...3CE0E9957EA.htm |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Ok so even when I didn't compare someone to Hitler I got some smart arse saying "oh the old so and so is Hitler argument" Well I say to you! Oh! The old Iran = Hitler argument? And just for added effect ---> |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser I think you are naive. Just like the world was naive before WWII. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shaolin_Z You do realize that a regime/the state != the people? |
'Regime change' and blah blah blah... go install your senator as President of every fuckin country.. like pupet regimes in afghanistan and Iraq.. lap dogs of US..
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley And I think you honestly believe that mentioning Hitler will be the be all and end all of the argument... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser No i realy dont' think so. And there is nothing i compared earlier to Hitler before to win an argument. I realy think that Ahmenidjad is the closest thing to Hitler the world has faced since WWII, and that the Islamic Fundemntalism is the closest thing to Nazism. Its an opinion. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SDR...related&search= |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser No i realy dont' think so. And there is nothing i compared earlier to Hitler before to win an argument. I realy think that Ahmenidjad is the closest thing to Hitler the world has faced since WWII, and that the Islamic Fundemntalism is the closest thing to Nazism. Its an opinion. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SDR...related&search= |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Excuse me but how exactly can you compare any country to Nazi Germany when they have a Jewish community and a Jewish politician? Are Jews in Iran persecuted? A large number of them protested the government for denying the Holocaust, have they been rounded up and executed? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Flotser History prooves that an extermist regime can strongly affect its people. Germans were and are very nice and normal people. But the rise of Nazism made them commit unhuman acts of the worst possible kind. It can happen to everyone, to me and to you. Its not something that can happen only to Germans. |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Ok seriously Flotser, you're freakin' me out here...I just watched a 5min. video of that same speech....lol! |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by shaolin_Z More like a bunch of propagandists. You have to dig through it to find any truth (to whatever extent). |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Oh and it appears (from the subtitles) he's talking about the Israeli regime... |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by George Smiley Excuse me but how exactly can you compare any country to Nazi Germany when they have a Jewish community and a Jewish politician? Are Jews in Iran persecuted? A large number of them protested the government for denying the Holocaust, have they been rounded up and executed? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Fir3start3r Ok seriously Flotser, you're freakin' me out here...I just watched a 5min. video of that same speech....lol! |
Re: Does Iran's President Want Israel Wiped Off The Map?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by habsfan This for all those people who keep trying to justify nuking Iran because he threatened to "Wipe Israel off the map". ARTICLE |
| quote: |
Does Iran's President deny the Holocaust? "The German government condemned the repetitive offending anti-Israel statements by Ahmadinejad to be shocking. Such behaviour is not tolerable, Foreign Minister Frank-Walter Steinmeier stated. [...] Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel proclaimed Ahmadinejad's statements to be 'inconceivable'" (published by tagesschau.de 2005-12-14. But not only the German Foreign Minister Steinmeier and the Federal Chancellor Merkel allege this, but the Bild-Zeitung, tagesschau.de, parts of the peace movement, US-President George W. Bush, the 'Papers for German and international politics', CNN, the Heinrich-B�ll-Foundation, almost the entire world does so, too: Iran's President Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust. What is this assertion based on? In substance it is based on dispatches of 2 days - 2005-12-14 and 2006-02-11. "The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stepped up his verbal attacks against Israel and the Western states and has denied the Holocaust. Instead of making Israel's attacks against Palestine a subject of discussion 'the Western states devote their energy to the fairy-tale of the massacre against the Jews', Ahmadinejad said on Wednesday in a speech at Zahedan in the south-east of Iran which was broadcasted directly by the news-channel Khabar. That day he stated that if the Western states really believe in the assassination of six million Jews in W.W. II they should put a piece of land in Europe, in the USA, Canada or Alaska at Israel's disposal." - dispatch of the German press agency DPA, 2005-12-14. The German TV-station n24 spreads the following on 2006-12-14 using the title 'Iran's President calls the Holocaust a myth': "The Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has stepped up his verbal attacks against Israel and called the Holocaust a 'myth' used as a pretext by the Europeans to found a Jewish state in the center of the Islamic world . 'In the name of the Holocaust they have created a myth and regard it to be worthier than God, religion and the prophets' the Iranian head of state said." The Iranian press agency IRNA renders Ahmadinejad on 2005-12-14 as follows: "'If the Europeans are telling the truth in their claim that they have killed six million Jews in the Holocaust during the World War II - which seems they are right in their claim because they insist on it and arrest and imprison those who oppose it, why the Palestinian nation should pay for the crime. Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions.' [...] 'If you have committed the crimes so give a piece of your land somewhere in Europe or America and Canada or Alaska to them to set up their own state there.' [...] Ahmadinejad said some have created a myth on holocaust and hold it even higher than the very belief in religion and prophets [...] The president further said, 'If your civilization consists of aggression, displacing the oppressed nations, suppressing justice-seeking voices and spreading injustice and poverty for the majority of people on the earth, then we say it out loud that we despise your hollow civilization.'" There again we find the quotation already rendered by n24: "In the name of the Holocaust they created a myth." We can see that this is completely different from what is published by e.g. the DPA - the massacre against the Jews is a fairy-tale. What Ahmadinejad does is not denying the Holocaust. No! It is dealing out criticism against the mendacity of the imperialistic powers who use the Holocaust to muzzle critical voices and to achieve advantages concerning the legitimization of a planned war. This is criticism against the exploitation of the Holocaust. CNN (2005-12-15) renders as follows: "If you have burned the Jews why don't you give a piece of Europe, the United States, Canada or Alaska to Israel. Our question is, if you have committed this huge crime, why should the innocent nation of Palestine pay for this crime?" The Washingtonian ''Middle East Media Research Institute' (MEMRI) renders Ahmadinejad's statements from 2005-12-14 as follows: "...we ask you: if you indeed committed this great crime, why should the oppressed people of Palestine be punished for it? * [...] If you committed a crime, you yourselves should pay for it. Our offer was and remains as follows: If you committed a crime, it is only appropriate that you place a piece of your land at their disposal - a piece of Europe, of America, of Canada, or of Alaska - so they can establish their own state. Rest assured that if you do so, the Iranian people will voice no objection." The MEMRI-rendering uses the relieving translation 'great crime' and misappropriates the following sentence at the * marked passage: "Why have they come to the very heart of the Islamic world and are committing crimes against the dear Palestine using their bombs, rockets, missiles and sanctions." This sentence has obviously been left out deliberately because it would intimate why the Israeli state could have forfeited the right to establish itself in Palestine - videlicet because of its aggressive expansionist policy against the people of Palestine, ignoring any law of nations and disobeying all UN-resolutions. In spite of the variability referring to the rendering of the statements of Iran's President we should nevertheless note down: the reproach of denying the Holocaust cannot be sustained if Ahmadinejad speaks of a great and huge crime that has been done to the Jews. In another IRNA-dispatch (2005-12-14) the Arabian author Ghazi Abu Daqa writes about Ahmadinejad: "The Iranian president has nothing against the followers of Judaism [...] Ahmadinejad is against Zionism as well as its expansionist and occupying policy. That is why he managed to declare to the world with courage that there is no place for the Zionist regime in the world civilized community." It's no wonder that such opinions do not go down particularly well with the ideas of the centers of power in the Western world. But for this reason they are not wrong right away. Dealing out criticism against the aggressive policy of the Western world, to which Israel belongs as well, is not yet anti-Semitism. We should at least to give audience to this kind of criticism - even if it is a problematic field for us. 2006-02-11 Ahmadinejad said according to IRNA: "[...] the real holocaust should be sought in Palestine, where the blood of the oppressed nation is shed every day and Iraq, where the defenceless Muslim people are killed daily. [...] 'Some western governments, in particular the US, approve of the sacrilege on the Prophet Mohammad (PBUH), while denial of the >Myth of Holocaust<, based on which the Zionists have been exerting pressure upon other countries for the past 60 years and kill the innocent Palestinians, is considered as a crime' [...]" The assertion that Ahmadinejad denies the Holocaust thus is wrong in more than one aspect. He does not deny the Holocaust, but speaks of denial itself. And he does not speak of denial of the Holocaust, but of denial of the Myth of Holocaust. This is something totally different. All in all he speaks of the exploitation of the Holocaust. The Myth of Holocaust, like it is made a subject of discussion by Ahmadinejad, is a myth that has been built up in conjunction with the Holocaust to - as he says - put pressure onto somebody. We might follow this train of thoughts or we might not. But we cannot equalize his thoughts with denial of the Holocaust. If Ahmadinejad according to this 2006-02-11 condemns the fact that it is forbidden and treated as a crime to do research into the Myth of Holocaust, as we find it quoted in the MEMRI translation, this acquires a meaning much different from the common and wide-spread one. If the myth related to the Holocaust is commuted to a 'Fairy Tale of the Massacre' - like the DPA did - this can only be understood as a malicious misinterpretation. By the use of misrepresentation and adulteration it apparently succeeded to constitute the statements of the Iranian President to be part and parcel of the currently fought propaganda battle. It is our responsibility to counter this. Concluding: A dispatch by Reuters confirms 2006-02-21: "The Iranian Foreign Minister Manuchehr Mottaki has [...] repudiated that his state would want the Jewish state Israel 'wiped off the map'. [...] Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad had been misunderstood. 'Nobody can erase a country from the map.' Ahmadinejad was not thinking of the state of Israel but of their regime [...]. 'We do not accredit this regime to be legitimate.' [...] Mottaki also accepted that the Holocaust really took place in a way that six million Jews were murdered during the era of National Socialism." The next step is to connect the Iranian President with Hitler. 2006-02-20 the Chairman of the Counsil of Jews in France (Crif) says in Paris: "The Iranian President's assertions do not rank behind Hitler's 'Mein Kampf'". Paul Spiegel, President of the Central Counsil of Jews in Germany, 2005-12-10 in the 'Welt' qualifies the statements of Ahmadinejad to be "the worst comment on this subject that he has ever heard of a statesman since A. Hitler". At the White House the Iranian President is even named Hitler. And the German Federal Chancellor Angela Merkel as well moves over Iran's President towards Hitler and National Socialism by saying 2006-02-04 in Munich: "Already in the early 1930's many people said that it is only rhetoric. One could have prevented a lot in time if one had acted... Germany is in the debt to resist the incipiencies and to do anything to make clear where the limit of tolerance is. Iran remains in control of the situation, it is still in their hands." All this indicates war. Slobodan Milosevic became Hitler. The result was the war of the Nato against Yugoslavia. Saddam Hussein became Hitler. What followed was the war the USA and their coalition of compliant partners waged against Iraq. Now the Iranian President becomes Hitler. And someone who is Hitler-like can assure a hundred times that he only wants to use nuclear energy in a peaceful way. Nobody will believe him. Somebody like Hitler can act within the scope of all contracts. Acting contrary to contract will nevertheless be imputed to him. "Virtually none of the Western states recognize that uranium enrichment is absolutely legal. There is no restriction by contract or by the law of nations. Quite the contrary: Actually the Western countries would have the duty to assist Iran with these activities, according to the Non-Proliferation Treaty. As long as a state renounces the bomb it is eligible for technical support by the nuclear powers." (J�rg Pfuhl, ARD radio studio Istanbul 2006-01-11) But - all this does not count if the Head of a state is stigmatized as Hitler. |
Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.