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quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn Why do you say that? Honestly UFC is *the* most high brow fighting game you can get. Yes I realize thats an oxy-moron but compared to boxing UFC is by far safer.

Stop with the bullshit already!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by klago Stop with the bullshit already!!!!

excuse me?

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn excuse me?

How can any rational person say that UFC is safer than boxing?

quote:

Originally posted by klago How can any rational person say that UFC is safer than boxing?

Boxers are killed every year. UFC history : 0

There are no counts in UFC, once you're out, it's over.

Boxing - goal is to cause concussions to the head to knock the opponent out. No submissions.

There's plenty more... ask a boxer, they'll tell you the same.

quote:

Originally posted by klago How can any rational person say that UFC is safer than boxing?

What Abercrombie said. Its simple. Boxing has something called a standing 8 count where if a bovxer can stand on their feet the ref will (by the rules) send the boxer back to the slaughter. You've seen it many times, at that point the boxer gets pounded to oblivion.

In UFC the SECOND the fighter is at risk the refs stops the fight. No standing 8 no questions asked.

Also, the padding in the boxers gloves means that a boxer constantly takes punches to the head, therefore increasing risk of concussion and other head injuries.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Also, the padding in the boxers gloves means that a boxer constantly takes punches to the head, therefore increasing risk of concussion and other head injuries.

Yeah really there are TONS of reasons. Lots of people have these misconceptions about UFC. Its taken them almost 15 years to break them and become the dominant force they are now.

No boxer would have ever endured the punishment Penn took at the end of that match. You can't pin a guys arms to the ground in boxing and wail away at his face.

The potential for acute injury is far greater in MMA. Joint manipulation, forearm/elbow strikes have way more potential to injure than a boxing glove.

There is no question that there are more headshots in boxing, it's the nature of the sport. But i'd take a right hook from a boxer every day of the week before took one from a MMA fighter.

There is one exception. Title fights they tend to let a bit more punishment. Take for example the Jens Pulver fight, it took one punch from Lauzon for the ref to stop it.

You are right there is more potential for acute injuries in MMA. But we're not talking about that. I'd take a few broken elbows over long lasting head trauma any day.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn Why do you say that? Honestly UFC is *the* most high brow fighting game you can get. Yes I realize thats an oxy-moron but compared to boxing UFC is by far safer.

I don't know how people watching boxing or wrestling for that matter, either! It just seems so disturbing to watch people beating each other up. Especially UFC...it's just like watching a bar fight - except with people who train to fight.

Ah well...whatever floats your boat.

quote:

Originally posted by klago No boxer would have ever endured the punishment Penn took at the end of that match. You can't pin a guys arms to the ground in boxing and wail away at his face. The potential for acute injury is far greater in MMA. Joint manipulation, forearm/elbow strikes have way more potential to injure than a boxing glove. There is no question that there are more headshots in boxing, it's the nature of the sport. But i'd take a right hook from a boxer every day of the week before took one from a MMA fighter.

are you kidding me? there are *countless* boxing fights where a boxer has taken FAR more punishment to the head than what Penn took...the padded gloves results in a boxer taking far more punishment than they should. they won't get KO'd, but they take 100+ punches to the head over the course of a fight...it's those cumulative shots that cause brain damage.

you won't find many head trauma experts out there who claim that boxing is "safer" than MMA.

as pointed out, there has yet to be a death in MMA and it's been going on for 20 years (just not widely seen on tv)...boxing has had many deaths.

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I don't know how you guys can watch this.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT as pointed out, there has yet to be a death in MMA and it's been going on for 20 years (just not widely seen on tv)...boxing has had many deaths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Dedge

quote:

Originally posted by klago http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Dedge

quote:

Douglas Dedge (1966-March 16, 1998) was an American mixed martial arts fighter who became the first fighter to be fatally injured in an MMA fight, at an unregulated event in the Ukraine. Dedge took several shots directly to the head before the referee stopped the contest. In the immediate aftermath of the fight Degde fell into a coma and died shortly thereafter. It was alleged from people who had known him that he was suffering from conditions that, had they been known about, would have prevented him from fighting in MMA.

Thanks for supporting our arguement.

quote:

Originally posted by Pett where u getting these updates from?? i got a bit of money on this one

Sorry I wasn't able to continue the updates. For those of you that couldn't see the rest of the fights, here's a write up. I got called away from the computer for the rest of the night. I get my written updates from MMAnews.com


Here's the rest from the PPV:

Fight #8:
David Loiseau vs. Mike Swick

Round 1: Tough round, but probably Swick's. Both had their
moments on the feet, on the ground, at one point Swick had Loiseau's back
and almost got a submission but Loiseau scrambled back to the feet. Swick
finished stronger than Loiseau so probably 10-9 Swick.

Round 2: Closer round, especially on the feet. Maybe very slight
edge to Loiseau for more solid leg kicks, but most of the stand up was
pretty equal. Near the end of the round Swick got a takedown and
controlled with some pitter-patter punches here and there to finish the
round. Probably 10-9 Swick.

Round 3: Could be a Loiseau round, I was hoping 10-8 on a
personal money bet to make it a draw, but at best this could be Loiseau 10-9.
This could even be Swick 10-9 for a 30-27 shutout. We'll see.

Mike Swick def. David Loiseau via Unanimous Decision (29-28, 29-28,
29-28) after 3 Rounds.


Fight #9:
Matt Hughes (c) vs. B.J. Penn (Welterweight Title)

Round 1: Penn round. Penn did better on the feet. At one point,
Penn accidentally hit Hughes in the eye with a thumb which stopped the
fight. Looked like it might end, but Hughes continued. Penn finished
the round doing better standing, with Hughes failing at a takedown.

Round 2: Round two was much more decisive. Late in the round it
was all Penn, and Hughes just trying to survive and finish the round.
He had trouble doing so, but did just barely. 10-9 to Penn.

Round 3: Round ends in this round for a TKO stoppage for Matt
Hughes. He reverses two rounds of being down in the scoring to finish
this fight here. He got Penn down, had his arm trapped in side mount and
punched away. Penn couldn't escape the position, Hughes kept punching
the wide open target - his face, and "Big" John had no choice but to stop
the fight.

Matt Hughes def. B.J. Penn via TKO (strikes) at 2:53 of Round 3 to
retain his Welterweight title.



And here are the Prelims most people don't get to watch:
PRELIMS

Fight #1:
Tyson Griffin vs. David Lee

Round 1: Round one opens with Lee landing a flying knee. Griffin
moves in for a body lock and eventually gets the takedown. After some
scrambling, Griffin takes Lee's back and forces the tapout with a rear
naked choke.

Tyson Griffin def. David Lee via Submission (rear naked choke) at
1:50 of Round 1.


Fight #2:
Jorge Gurgel vs. Danny Abbadi

Round 1: Close first round, probably Abbadi's. Abbadi had a
knockdown at one point in the round and also landed several left straights.
Gurgel landed a good right hand during the round and also attempted a
kneebar and armbar.

Round 2: Gurgel dominated round two, but will only get the 10-9.
He had Abbadi backing up most of the round as he landed punches, and
got a takedown followed by effective ground and pound. Likely tied up
going into the final round.

Round 3: Round three was similar to the second, aside from the
very end where Abbadi threw it all out on the feet trying to steal the
round.

Jorge Gurgel def. Danny Abbadi via Split Decision (29-28 Gurgel,
29-28 Gurgel, 29-28 Abbadi)


Fight #3:
Mario Neto vs. Eddie Sanchez

Round 1: Fight opens with both combatants slugging it out until
Neto gets a takedown. He controlled the fight for a while. Back on the
feet, Neto tries pulling guard and goes for a front choke but Sanchez
escapes and the fight is back standing again. Round ends with nothing
much happening. Probably 10-9 for Sanchez.

Round 2: Round opens with Sanchez landing a monsterous overhand
right that drops Neto. Sanchez followed in with more brutal punches
before the referee steps in to call a hault in the action. Neto was
completely unconscious.

Eddie Sanchez def. Mario Neto via KO (punch) at 0:21 of Round 1.


Fight #4
Roger Huerta vs. Jason Dent

Round 1: Round opens with Dent landing a spinning back-kick to
the body. Huerta then landed some good punches and even got a few
takedowns. One was a huge slam followed by some brutal ground and pound.
Round ends and is easily a 10-9 for Huerta.

Round 2: Round two was similar to the first. Huerta got the
better of the standing and ground action. Huerta finished the round strong
with a lot of strikes. 20-18 through 2 thus far.

Round 3: Dent opens the round with a flying knee that opens a
bad cut on Huerta's head. Both fighters are bleeding now. Dent started to
get his own in the stand up, but Huerta gets a takedown and tries
riding the rest of the round out. Eventually, Huerta unloaded with strikes
to finish the round strong.

Roger Huerta def. Jason Dent via Unanimous Decision (30-27, 30-27,
30-27)

quote:

Originally posted by klago But i'd take a right hook from a boxer every day of the week before took one from a MMA fighter.

I'd rather be knocked out by taking a few shots than receiving repeated shots to the head for 10+ rounds. I spar with a friend that trains in MMA, and you'd be surprised how many of those punches actually land and how many graze/slide of your face.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn Thanks for supporting our arguement.

quote:

Originally posted by klago Keep smokin'

Honestly man, I'm not trying to be an ass here. You've been proven that boxing is far more harmful than MMA. You're one example of a death whilst fighting was #1 an unregulated fight (meaning no standard rules) and the guy had a health issue that should have stopped him from fighting. That in no way proves anything.

BTW next time your in T.O. bring me down some T.Bay greens.

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn Honestly man, I'm not trying to be an ass here. You've been proven that boxing is far more harmful than MMA. You're one example of a death whilst fighting was #1 an unregulated fight (meaning no standard rules) and the guy had a health issue that should have stopped him from fighting. That in no way proves anything. BTW next time your in T.O. bring me down some T.Bay greens.

You can make the exact same argument for any boxer that has ever suffered a concussion.

The fact that the fight was not sanctioned is irrelevant.

quote:

Originally posted by klago The fact that the fight was not sanctioned is irrelevant.

That unregulated fight is equivalent of a fight club. Or any fight two ppl decide to have in someone's basement.

We're talking regulated MMA fights here.

quote:

Originally posted by klago You can make the exact same argument for any boxer that has ever suffered a concussion. The fact that the fight was not sanctioned is irrelevant.

Yup it is... (from your wiki link)
It was alleged from people who had known him that he was suffering from conditions that, had they been known about, would have prevented him from fighting in MMA.

If he's had a previous health condition and and he didn't tell anybody to get his 15 min of fame, that was his doing.

A fighter like that wouldn't be admitted to any regulated event...neither pro boxing nor pro MMA.

personally I can tell you that I've taken FAR more punishment from mere training with boxers than I have actually FIGHTING in mixed martial arts. The body shots and the head shots are just far more intense in boxing.

At least in MMA you can go into a clinch or take down to protect yourself and the moment you can no longer react in a senseable fashion it's stopped.
For me two things made it scary, 1) going up against guys who were known for being jerks and had great submissions. (I spent a year in re-hab after surgery getting my shoulder repaired from one such guy because he didn't give me time to tap out and I had to roll to protect my shoulder as he cranked it anyway) and 2) guys who had too much pride and wouldn't tap even though you had them locked up and they knew it. I've caught guys in submissions and held it off to give them time to tap and one of them even looked at me said "not a chance". I had to look at the ref to stop it so I wouldn't have to actually apply it so I would break his shoulder, thankfully the ref saw the problem and stopped it because we weren't there to hurt each other, it was supposed to be friendly competetion. This is why I don't fight submissions anymore. I still train in BJJ a lot but I only fight among stand up martial art styles now.

^^^ I wondered about how prevalent that was in the 'lower' ranked events (people out to injure or who refuse to tap). I imagine that at lower levels, there are all kinds of people who compete for the wrong reasons?

quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn Thanks for supporting our arguement.

you beat me to it, lol.

There are countless unregulated, underground MMA fights around the world...that's not a fair to provide an example of a death is some underground, unregulated match vs. regulated MMA fights which are sanctioned by the very same athletic commissions as pro boxing matches. That means concrete rules, licensed refs and ringside physicians, fighters who are medically cleared to compete, etc. etc.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ I wondered about how prevalent that was in the 'lower' ranked events (people out to injure or who refuse to tap). I imagine that at lower levels, there are all kinds of people who compete for the wrong reasons?

Lots of them. They see the big leagues and the show that goes on as guys give thier pregame talks about hurting thier opponents and think thats what its really about. The true martial arts guys are the ones that bow or at least shake hands before and after and can congratulate the winner at the end. I hate artificial grudge matches like the guys that have never met but already know they hate each other.

Now that said there are lots of guys in the lower leauges that do compete for the correct reasons. Some of the enthusiasts are the nicest guys out there and just want to compete. I saw a guy once offer to drive his opponent after a match to the hospital because they thought his ankle may be hurt after he landed a kick on the guys elbow. I have a lot of respect for those guys.

^^^ interesting...I ask because over the last couple of months, I've been seriously contemplating learning Muay Thai...though am not terribly interested in serious competition outside of the obvious sparring required to learn and become proficient (parially because I'm 33 in about a month, lol).

I'm more intersted from a fitness and discipline standpoint, and to a lesser extent, self-defense (beats just learning to box). A lot of people suggest grappling and jiu jitsu because it can be practiced well into your older years since the emphasis is on technique vs. power, speed, etc., correct?


side note....I wish people who don't like MMA would just admit they don't like it and stop trying to say it's any more of a brutal, dangerous sport than other pro sports.

for those hung up on injury and fatality issues...why not look at major sports like auto racing or football?

Without fail, every year there are serious injuries in both sports and *at least* one death in a pro, college or high school football training camp (there's an article in today's Toronto Star about a U.S. college player's death this week, as a matter of fact).

while I understand that some people don't find combat sports attractive...or find them 'brutish'...I think it's unfair to suggest that they are any more dangerous than other pro sports.

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