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-- "The Corporation" A MUST SEE
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Originally posted by Capitalizt No, but you will halt the advance of technology. Most of the technology we have today was and is created for PROFIT. Corporations allow people to pool their money and collectively risk their fortunes on new ventures. Without that collective risk, the vast majority of innovation we have today would vanish. An evil corporation is responsible for the screen you are looking at right now...for the computer putting the display on the machine...for the operating system running the computer...for the DESK the computer is sitting on and the chair your ass is sitting on...the carpet under your feet...The food in your fridge... Do you think people would create these things and give them to you out of the kindness of their heart? Get real man. These things are the products of corporations...They were produced for the PROFIT...for benefit of INVESTORS in those corporations. Abolish the corporation and you are condemning society to poverty and stagnation.

No, most technology is a by product of warfare. And we're all aware of how marvelous that is. Later on when it's application in business and people's daily lives became more apparent was when it became profitable. Computers are an excellent example of that. So, to accelerate the development of technology, let's start World War 3, because the costs don't matter right?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z let's start World War 3

That would be a good idea.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, most technology is a by product of warfare. And we're all aware of how marvelous that is. Later on when it's application in business and people's daily lives became more apparent was when it became profitable. Computers are an excellent example of that. So, to accelerate the development of technology, let's start World War 3, because the costs don't matter right?

Jesus man, you have such an incredibly twisted perspective on things that I don't know where to begin. I really can't waste any more time with this. I'll just tell you to turn your head to the left or right.. Look in any direction indoors or outdoors and you will surely find dozens of things created by companies for profit...things that were not created for "war", but out of basic human self interest.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Jesus man, you have such an incredibly twisted perspective on things that I don't know where to begin. I really can't waste any more time with this. I'll just tell you to turn your head to the left or right.. Look in any direction indoors or outdoors and you will surely find dozens of things created by companies for profit...things that were not created for "war", but out of basic human self interest.

The orignal purpose of computers was purely to preform highly complicated calculations/computations in a very short span of time, hence the term "computer." And it applied to military strategy during WW2. Abacuses didn't cut it. And that's why we have computers today. Technology has barely changed since then, infact, it hasn't. It's the same technology that's been refined. We still uses a binary number system and p/n-type transistors. Until quantum-conmputing comes around, it's the same technology.

EDIT: Sorry if I'm coming across as being rude, I'm certainly not trying to; just being very direct.

Fine I will grant you that point. Aside from completely changing and branching out into every area of life imaginable, you are correct...computers haven't changed at all in the past 80 years (because they still use binary).

[/sarcasm]

Alrighty then, now can you please answer my question:

If you were to abolish all corporations, who would provide you with the hundreds of products and services in life that you currently take for granted? Can you illustrate what the world would be like if you got your way?

What would replace the current market economy? Without corporations and free markets, the thing I can see emerging is a primitive barter system. Either that, or a totalitarian economy with central planning and the rationing of goods...hardly something to look forward to.

I didn't read the thread, but I actually own a big documentary collection and this movie, the original, is a very prized movie in my collection. Highly recommended.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, most technology is a by product of warfare.

so, my toaster was originally a weapon of mass destruction?? please dont tell me my turntables were used to subjugate the people of the balkans. come on shaolin, lets be reasonable man!

I know for a fact that many weapons used in Medieval times were converted from farm tools, not the other way around.

I've been known to cook things that have been classed as crimes against humanity and ordinary, common decency.
Especially cabbage, the purpose of this foliage has no point at all in a kitchen + any heat source and should only be fed to pet rabbits and horses, apparently you can make coleslaw out of it too, but it's always easier to just buy it by the bucketload.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt No, but you will halt the advance of technology. Most of the technology we have today was and is created for PROFIT. Corporations allow people to pool their money and collectively risk their fortunes on new ventures. Without that collective risk, the vast majority of innovation we have today would vanish. An eeeeevil corporation is responsible for the screen you are looking at right now...for the computer putting the display on the machine...for the operating system running the computer...for the DESK that computer is sitting on...for the chair your ass is sitting on...the carpet under your feet...the food in your fridge... Do you think all of these things could be created and given to you out of the kindness of people's hearts? Get real man. These things are the products of big business...They were produced for the PROFIT, and the benefit of INVESTORS in those corporations, nothing else. Abolish the corporation and you will be condemning society to poverty and stagnation.

I'm curious as to how, by your logic, the Soviet Union was able to keep up with and, at times, surpass the United States and the rest of the western world in technnological advances.

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Originally posted by Audigy7 I'm curious as to how, by your logic, the Soviet Union was able to keep up with and, at times, surpass the United States and the rest of the western world in technnological advances.

I'm sure in a limited number of areas, this was the case.When you devote an entire nation's resources to one purpose for many decades, there will certainly be advances in that area that other countries don't have...but overall, you need only take a look at the poverty in Russia today to see the damage communism did to them...or glance over at Cuba, North Korea, or any other country with severe restrictions on corporations and private property today. See how they compare with the rest of the world, and please explain how their system works better than ours. Are they advancing humanity more than the US and Europe? In technology...in medicine...anything?

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I'm sure in a limited number of areas, this was the case.When you devote an entire nation's resources to one purpose for many decades, there will certainly be advances in that area that other countries don't have...but overall, you need only take a look at the poverty in Russia today to see the damage communism did to them...or glance over at Cuba, North Korea, or any other country with severe restrictions on corporations and private property today. See how they compare with the rest of the world, and please explain how their system works better than ours. Are they advancing humanity more than the US and Europe? In technology...in medicine...anything?

I can say to you from experience of my parents, nobody at that time wasn't devoted to anything. People just lived and worked as they do it now. You're just forgeting a fact that USSR has one of the best education system in entire world.

I agree USSR put a pressure on a military sector, but USA did ABSOLUTELY the same at that time. And you are wrong thinking that they were advanced only in a limited number of areas.

And answering to you last question, do you know what is ITER?
The essential part of it, is a tokamak. A Tokamak is a machine producing a toroidal (doughnut-shaped) magnetic field for confining a plasma.
Guess when and who made it. I think it's a giant leap in advancing humanity.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN so, my toaster was originally a weapon of mass destruction?? please dont tell me my turntables were used to subjugate the people of the balkans. come on shaolin, lets be reasonable man!

Yeah, that's exactly what I meant. BTW, if your toaster has a chip in it, which it probably does, then yes it is a by product of technology orignially developed for military purposes.

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Originally posted by Sunsnail I know for a fact that many weapons used in Medieval times were converted from farm tools, not the other way around.

I said:

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z No, most technology is a by product of warfare. And we're all aware of how marvelous that is. Later on when it's application in business and people's daily lives became more apparent was when it became profitable. Computers are an excellent example of that. So, to accelerate the development of technology, let's start World War 3, because the costs don't matter right?

That's clearly not all. You also know nunchucks were a farming tool as well right, and not a weapon (for beating rice or something weird like that if I recall correctly)?

I think it was understood that my emphasis was on modern technology, apprarently not judging from some of the ludicrous offtopic responses here.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt Fine I will grant you that point. Aside from completely changing and branching out into every area of life imaginable, you are correct...computers haven't changed at all in the past 80 years (because they still use binary). [/sarcasm] Alrighty then, now can you please answer my question: If you were to abolish all corporations, who would provide you with the hundreds of products and services in life that you currently take for granted? Can you illustrate what the world would be like if you got your way? What would replace the current market economy? Without corporations and free markets, the thing I can see emerging is a primitive barter system. Either that, or a totalitarian economy with central planning and the rationing of goods...hardly something to look forward to.

That question makes a very weird assumption for it to make any sense whatsoever. So you think business and a market place can't exist with out a corporate institutional structure? Here's a hint that may address your question in part; strip them of their legal status of being a person that they abuse in court such as right meant for real individual people, which don't really apply to an institutional structure and were never meant to apply to it in the first place. That's a first step. Second, they need to be publicly accountable for all the externalities they impose on society, the greatest impact of which is felt in other poor 3rd world nation where they know they can pretty much get away with anything.

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Originally posted by Capitalizt No, but you will halt the advance of technology. Most of the technology we have today was and is created for PROFIT. Corporations allow people to pool their money and collectively risk their fortunes on new ventures. Without that collective risk, the vast majority of innovation we have today would vanish. An eeeeevil corporation is responsible for the screen you are looking at right now...for the computer putting the display on the machine...for the operating system running the computer...for the DESK that computer is sitting on...for the chair your ass is sitting on...the carpet under your feet...the food in your fridge... Do you think all of these things could be created and given to you out of the kindness of people's hearts? Get real man. These things are the products of big business...They were produced for the PROFIT, and the benefit of INVESTORS in those corporations, nothing else. Abolish the corporation and you will be condemning society to poverty and stagnation.

All things aside, all arguments taken into account... with all the technology, the profit, and the race, in comparison to the thousands and thousands of years of our existence... are we happier now than we were 500 years ago? 1000? 5000?

In comparison to all the rest of human history, we have advanced our technologies exponentially that last 60 years of our existence. With this advancement, however, has our quality of life and general happiness improved? Are we happier now that we have so much to keep every waking hour of our lives busy?

What's the point? If we're not leading happier, more fulfilled lives, what good is the fastest car, the tiniest supercomputer, or the most advanced cell phone?

With less and less meaning attributed to actual LIFE, all we are doing are creating temporary moments of satisfaction for our egos. In the end, nothing is real.

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Originally posted by djillicit All things aside, all arguments taken into account... with all the technology, the profit, and the race, in comparison to the thousands and thousands of years of our existence... are we happier now than we were 500 years ago? 1000? 5000? In comparison to all the rest of human history, we have advanced our technologies exponentially that last 60 years of our existence. With this advancement, however, has our quality of life and general happiness improved? Are we happier now that we have so much to keep every waking hour of our lives busy? What's the point? If we're not leading happier, more fulfilled lives, what good is the fastest car, the tiniest supercomputer, or the most advanced cell phone? With less and less meaning attributed to actual LIFE, all we are doing are creating temporary moments of satisfaction for our egos. In the end, nothing is real.

Really depends on the angle you're looking at it although you do have a point.
I look it like this, technology is a tool to help get mundane life things done so that one can enjoy MORE of their quality of life; the things that are important.
People that tend to get hung up on technology are more likely those self-centered, self-destructing, keeping-up-with-the-Joneses types who don't really have a life unless they compare their own with others (IMHO of course ).
Now that's not everyone; myself for example, just thinks technology is cool and its what I happen to do for a living.

So bring on the cool gadgets and if it'll let me spend more time with my wife and kid, then bring it on!

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