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-- American Universities, Bastions of Privilege and Hypocrisy?
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quote:

Originally posted by kush paintings If one more person says this without addressing what I have taken the time to post I might just snap.

Ok, so what did you just post? That ivy league schools really do let in ppl whose parents went there or who have money? I wasn't paying attention as to why you just might snap.

Anyways, Ivy league schools are overrated. They are just still popular because that is where secret societies are.

Just go to page 2 and stop being difficult.

Oh, and as for Ivies being overrated, yes and no.

Yes, it is awfuly hard to prove that you are really getting a better education at an Ivy League school versus a solid state school (Michigan, Illinois, etc.). In my case, I would say the work load at my school is far less than a lot of my friends, even those at so-so schools.

No, as a lot of top firms (I can only speak for the financial field) recruit HEAVILY from the Ivies. Like the attention they put on recruiting from the Ivies is completely disproportional compared to any other region.

Also, keep in mind you are surrounded by some of the brightest kids, I truly believe that just through your day to day interactions with very intelligent people helps make you more intelligent. Then there is the networking... The availability of resources...

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard You have made an error in your interpretation of the data here. Your conclusion that lower test scores in certain demographic sub-sets is not supported by the data. All one can conclude from any data stating that non-whites acheive lower grades is simply that non-white students acheive lower grades.

The data displayed is from a U.S. census representing the number of people who graduated high school or college, not test scores, which only account for part of a students' graduation requirements. As you may or may not know each state has their own set of requirements that must be met in order for a student to graduate high school or college. Here's mine. You have to pass all of your curriculum such as your reading, math, and sciences plus the foreign language requirement. You must also pass the state exams for these very same subjects as well as show that you have some sort of writing proficiency. This means that the graduation data by default takes into account not only test scores of the U.S. student body, but all other factors related to a graduating student. Basically I'm looking at the big picture.

On another note, the only mention of test scores I ever made were from those two high school examples from around my neighborhood. But like I said I took it one step further and pulled a census.

quote:

To infer that lower grades are a direct result of failing to use one's intellectual capacity is folly. There can be a multitude of reasons why non-whites acheive lower grades that have nothing to do with intellegence; culture bias curriculum or tests immediately spring to mind as a prime suspect.

I disagree. People fail because they don't study. I'm more concerned about what causes this failure to learn. You have unintentionally gave me one reason; culture bias.

I believe anybody with a healthy brain can learn a new concept, some faster than others, regardless of race. You can teach a gang student calculus or a clean cut kid how to traffic drugs. The point is eventually they will learn how to perform these tasks, but if failure is experienced along the way, I want to know why.

quote:

Originally posted by stevieboy32808 The data displayed is from a U.S. census representing the number of people who graduated high school or college, not test scores, which only account for part of a students' graduation requirements. As you may or may not know each state has their own set of requirements that must be met in order for a student to graduate high school or college. Here's mine. You have to pass all of your curriculum such as your reading, math, and sciences plus the foreign language requirement. You must also pass the state exams for these very same subjects as well as show that you have some sort of writing proficiency. This means that the graduation data by default takes into account not only test scores of the U.S. student body, but all other factors related to a graduating student. Basically I'm looking at the big picture. On another note, the only mention of test scores I ever made were from those two high school examples from around my neighborhood. But like I said I took it one step further and pulled a census. I disagree. People fail because they don't study. I'm more concerned about what causes this failure to learn. You have unintentionally gave me one reason; culture bias. I believe anybody with a healthy brain can learn a new concept, some faster than others, regardless of race. You can teach a gang student calculus or a clean cut kid how to traffic drugs. The point is eventually they will learn how to perform these tasks, but if failure is experienced along the way, I want to know why.

Here's some more information on the studies of how socioeconomic status affects school achievement.

Effects of socioeconomic status and of readiness to learn on school achievement:

quote:

Upon initial study of FSA results for Vancouver schools, it appeared that students attending schools located in disadvantaged neighbourhoods did poorly compared to those from resource-rich, high socio-economic status neighbourhoods. Using data from the Census and Early Development Instrument (EDI), we further analyzed the FSA results in relation to school readiness and the socio-economic characteristics of school catchment areas. Findings from this analysis suggest that many schools in disadvantaged neighbourhoods are successful in improving outcomes for their students, relative to their readiness to learn at school entry.

Link

Socioeconomic Status correlating with school achievement, ie.: the lower the socio economic status (SES) the lower the school achievement.
Link

More on SES and family background importance on school achievement:

quote:

Considerable evidence has now accumulated to establish that what happens in the system of family relationships has an important and statistically significant association with children's school success (Epstein, 1989, 1991, 1996; Hoover-Dempsey & Sandler, 1997; Ketsetzis et al., 1998; Ryan & Adams, 1995). Individual research reports and comprehensive reviews of published studies demonstrate that an extremely wide variety of parental and family characteristics can have an impact on children in school. Beyond the now widely accepted belief that the family's socioeconomic status has an influence on achievement, it has also been shown that parental characteristics, the overall nature and atmosphere of the family, the general nature of parent-child relationships, and the interactions between parents and children concerning school activities all have an influential role in determining achievement (e.g., see Ryan & Adams, 1999). Evidence also shows that the child's own personal characteristics are powerful determinants of achievement (Wang, Haertel, & Walberg, 1993)

Link

I will highlitght that the above quote says that the individual childs characteristics have an important effect on determining school achievement but that this is only relevant after a certain baseline for nutrition, nurture and family stability has been met.

Studies have also been made in other countries about this phenomena, in South Africa for exmaple,

quote:

(b) socioeconomic status was significantly positively associated with internality, self-concept, and academic achievement in English

Link

Some information on the correlation between income increase and grades:

quote:

Dahl and Lochner (2005) found that an income increase of $1,000 was associated with an increase in mathematics test scores of 2.1% of a standard deviation and in reading test scores of 3.6% of a standard deviation. Results of increased income are even stronger for children from families most impacted by the Earned Income Tax Credit.

Link

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