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-- M-Audio TORQ vinyl control package now in stores!
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Have you used Serato? If so, which one do you like better and why? Serato or Torq?
Yes, I've used Serato. I've had it in my home for testing twice - once around 1.2 and again around 1.4. each time I had it for about a week. It's a great program for vinyl emulation, but because it lacks independant key and tempo and MIDI support, it's not suitable for my needs.
I could even stand to give up MIDI support if that was the only problem (using MIDI Translator to translate MIDI data to keystrokes SSL could understand), but the lack of independant key is a deal breaker for me.
I've been a beta tester for FS and TDJS for a couple years, and until now it was the only system that did waht I wanted it to.
You should have been beta testing Conectiv in the first place!!
Ok folks, just got my torq installed and running tonight. So far I haven't gone too deep into the application (need to spend time with the manual), but I'm impressed thus far. I've been mostly using the control vinyl with my 1200 MK5's, and it works quite well. As far as I can feel, mixing on Torq feels exactly like normal vinyl. I have NOT used Serato or FS2 however, so I can't really compare against those.
I'm not a turtablist, but I did try scratching a bit and backspinning... no issues. I tried a very very long backspin, and it didn't miss a beat. Relative mode worked just as it should.
I did try using one of my CDJ-1000's with the control CD. I was impressed, very impressed. Turning master tempo on on the CDJ seemed to confuse the timecode a bit, but that's expected and it's totally useless anyway (torq has it's own master tempo function). Reverse, hot cues, and looping all worked exactly like they do with a normal CD. All pitch ranges worked perfectly. Cueing, etc, all work like a normal CD. Very nice indeed!
I didn't spend much time mixing with the CDJ's and control cd's, as I really bought this to get more use out of my 1200's. Perhaps over the weekend I'll try this again as I'm curious to see just how accurate the timecode is and if it can resolve the .02% pitch increments of the CDJ.
I'm running this on a Macbook 1.83, 1 gig of RAM, and thus far the CPU usage has hovered around 20%. When loading new tracks, it does some sort of waveform analysis that spikes the CPU a bit, but nothing too bad.
I basically agree with Nem0nic's review thus far.
Problems:
1. For some reason, using the touchpad on the macbook causes the music to stutter/pitchbend/something if you leave the laptop alone for a few minutes and come back to it and touch the touchpad. I have no idea what that's about, but using an external mouse gets around it. I'm going to log a bug with M-Audio for that one. I had previously had Microsoft Intellimouse drivers installed (which I since removed), so I don't know if that has something to do with it.
2. The "Mix" knobs on the interface can switch between the sound coming from your vinyl or cd decks and that of the Torq app (for playing regular vinyl or cd's). I noticed that the levels coming from torq are much higher than that of normal vinyl, so you have to fiddle with the gains (quite a bit on my Xone 92) to get them the same. With CD's they were much closer. There very well may be a setting in the torq app to get around this (PFL's or something), so this might just need to be tweaked.
STICKER DRIFT TEST
Sweet. Another review. If anyone is able to test it out over a long period of time I would REALLY be interested in feedback from that. I won't be able to do that kind of testing until early next week (work sucks this weekend).
OK, so I've played a little more and have more info for you guys. I want to apologize beforehand for the fact that the only video camera I have is a cameraphone. The image quality is pretty bad, but let me explain what I did and how I set it up, and that might help you make sense of the video.
I wanted to test how "absolute" the Torq absolute mode was. The best way I could think of to test this was to physically mark the vinyl and see if I could make it correspond with a specific event in an MP3. So what I did was load a little sample that I made (a simple loop with the "AHHHHH" sample in it about 45 seconds in) and loaded that MP3 into boh decks in Torq.
I then took a small piece of tape and set up an old school "locked groove" - an angled piece of tape set so that it would knock the needle back to the start of the groove every rotation. Yes, I am fucking old.
In the video below, I show you this mark and that it corresponds to the right point in the song (the AHHH sample). It loops for a bit, then I pan over to show the display scrolling and jumping in time to the audio.
I then move the needle into the record and do a few needle drops. What I'm trying to do here is clear out the buffer. I then move the needle back to the locked groove and show that it's still skipping at the same point it did before.
Next, I show you that the same sample is playing on the other deck using unmarked vinyl. Sorry it took me so long to get to the sample. Once I get there, I remove the unmarked record and bring my marked record over to that side. I needle drop and let it play until it gets to the locked groove. You can see that it correctly skips at the same place it did in the other deck.
So what this tells us is that absolute mode is really absolute, and that a point on the timecode vinyl always corresponds to a specific point in the song. This can be good or bad (good for visual reference - as the Conectiv vinyl is marked by a visual groove every minute, and bad because a skip or cue burn cant be mapped away from using an offset.
I did this test for the more scratch oriented DJs out there. As a more mix oriented DJ it probably doesn't matter as much.
http://www.nem0nic.com/absolute.wmv - for the video
Just tried the autosync/auto-beatmatching feature... check my thread "Torq auto-beatmaching..." to hear a sample....
HEY RYAN
Ryan, this is a tip regarding your Macbook problem. Taken from Konix in the DJF forums...
| quote: |
| Tell him to plug the Connectiv box into the other USB port. This is a well known problem with Macbooks/Macbook Pros when using SSL. If you touch the trackpad you will get dropouts if you have the SL1 plugged into the "bad" USB port. Actually I was waiting for someone with a Macbook to test this and see if Torq suffers the same problem, looks like it does. Usually it's the left USB port that's the "bad" one, tell him to use the right USB port and that should solve that problem. |
Re: HEY RYAN
I KNEW I had read something about a problem like that... thanks for the solution, I do in fact have it connected to the "left" port (looking at the laptop from the side). I'll try it tonight. Thanks!
I did enter a defect on the M-Audio site, I wonder if it's correctable or not.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nem0nic Ryan, this is a tip regarding your Macbook problem. Taken from Konix in the DJF forums... See if that works. |
Well it's looking more and more like this is going to be the answer... With looping and hot cues looking to be working well, at this point I'm just going to wait until I hear a bit more about how they work with CDJ's (pitch accuracy, corrections, etc.), but it's looking like this will be a good route for me... No more worrying about burning new CD's before every gig...
Actually once you try the loops in Torq itself, I doubt you'll want to use the loops on the CDJ's. You can create a 1,2,3,4 bar loop (or do it by beat if you set it up that way) and it'll be perfect every time.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by RJT Well it's looking more and more like this is going to be the answer... With looping and hot cues looking to be working well, at this point I'm just going to wait until I hear a bit more about how they work with CDJ's (pitch accuracy, corrections, etc.), but it's looking like this will be a good route for me... No more worrying about burning new CD's before every gig... |
Just got mine, and after an hour of use I must say I am EXTREMELY impressed! For 299 at GC it's definitely worth it for those who can't afford SSL or FS2. I'll post a better review later tonight, but I'm kind of worried that I won't ever get away from my decks anymore 
To those of you who've used this and FS/Seratoe with CD players, how do they compare?
Re: Re: HEY RYAN
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 I KNEW I had read something about a problem like that... thanks for the solution, I do in fact have it connected to the "left" port (looking at the laptop from the side). I'll try it tonight. Thanks! I did enter a defect on the M-Audio site, I wonder if it's correctable or not. |
i got it today... it's amazing. i'm in love.
djkoolaide waiting for your review, SO far from the reviews i have read it seems like a good investment. Now i cant wait to buy one for myself but want to know how it works with Cdplayers, as i only got 2 Denon 3500, gonna get TT soon.
Thanks Guys
And for those who havent seen it AGI released a small video here.
http://www.agiprodj.com/2006/08/30/...ntrol-vinyl-cd/
Cheers
Re: Re: Re: HEY RYAN
Yea I did switch USB ports, and now it's fine. What an odd problem, I wonder if it's fixable in the OS/Drivers/EFI or if that's just the way it is?
I posted this on another forum:
Eeeks... bugs!
Ok this product definately has some bugs... I would definately NOT play out in a club on this just yet.
Mainly:
1. The application seems to lose settings at random. I started the app tonight, and it reset to "internal" mixer mode. This happened a few different times, and I couldn't pinpoint what I did that made it happen.
2. The application lost control of my Trigger Finger pad. I had it all setup and configured, and all of a sudden I went to use it and it didn't work. When I reconnected the trigger finger, it started working again.
3. I switched modes from CD to vinyl (playing around with the control CD's), and the app crashed. When I restarted it, it lost all my midi assignments. Grr.
4. Random switching from absolute to relative mode. I mix, not scratch, and NEVER want relative mode to switch on, unless it's at the very very end of the track and I screwed up. Even in that case, just let me screw up as I'd be a bad DJ to let that happen anyway 
A few cool things I've found:
1. After you play a track, it grays it out in the playlist. You won't play the same track twice (not that you would anyway). Kinda cool.
2. Loops definately are cool. Wth a midi controller, even cooler. Tap the loop button, tap it again and half the loop. It just works and is quite accurate, nice.
3. Using CDJ-1000's, the timecode seems to be very very accurate. I made little pitch adjustments, and everything responded just as it should.
There are definately bugs, but nothing some updates can't fix.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Konix Ah finally I can post. Yes that is a known problem with the Macbooks. I have a Macbook as well. In SSL you'll get dropout when touching the trackpad if you have the SL1 plugged in the left port. Use the right port like I said and should be fine. I don't think this is a software problem, it's an Apple/hardware problem. I remember reading something that the trackpad and the left USB port share power, or their connected somehow, I dunno. Also, don't try to adjust the brightness, volume, or eject keys (basically all the F1-F12 keys), that causes dropouts as well. |
one problem i have is that if i have my laptop plugged into the ac adapter, i get crazy amounts of white noise out of the speakers. I called m-audio they said there's this thing i can get in the store, i forget what its called haha but it'll fix the problem
Re: Re: Re: Re: HEY RYAN
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Ryan0751 Yea I did switch USB ports, and now it's fine. What an odd problem, I wonder if it's fixable in the OS/Drivers/EFI or if that's just the way it is? I posted this on another forum: Eeeks... bugs! Ok this product definately has some bugs... I would definately NOT play out in a club on this just yet. Mainly: 1. The application seems to lose settings at random. I started the app tonight, and it reset to "internal" mixer mode. This happened a few different times, and I couldn't pinpoint what I did that made it happen. 2. The application lost control of my Trigger Finger pad. I had it all setup and configured, and all of a sudden I went to use it and it didn't work. When I reconnected the trigger finger, it started working again. 3. I switched modes from CD to vinyl (playing around with the control CD's), and the app crashed. When I restarted it, it lost all my midi assignments. Grr. 4. Random switching from absolute to relative mode. I mix, not scratch, and NEVER want relative mode to switch on, unless it's at the very very end of the track and I screwed up. Even in that case, just let me screw up as I'd be a bad DJ to let that happen anyway A few cool things I've found: 1. After you play a track, it grays it out in the playlist. You won't play the same track twice (not that you would anyway). Kinda cool. 2. Loops definately are cool. Wth a midi controller, even cooler. Tap the loop button, tap it again and half the loop. It just works and is quite accurate, nice. 3. Using CDJ-1000's, the timecode seems to be very very accurate. I made little pitch adjustments, and everything responded just as it should. There are definately bugs, but nothing some updates can't fix. |
What you have is a ground loop, and that thing is probably either a direct box or a GLI (Ground Loop Isolator).
You COULD go SUPER CHEAP and buy one of these...
http://www.radioshack.com/product/i...ctId=2104010&cp
It will take care of the problem as well, but I personally don't like the idea of lifting the ground. So I have one of these...
http://www.ebtechaudio.com/humxdes.html
Works like a charm.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by RoBDaWG one problem i have is that if i have my laptop plugged into the ac adapter, i get crazy amounts of white noise out of the speakers. I called m-audio they said there's this thing i can get in the store, i forget what its called haha but it'll fix the problem |
Torq Key Locking SUCKS in external control modes.
Another question from the heads over at the SSL boards lead me to find a pretty major problem in the way Torq handles Key Locking when in external control modes.
If you're in internal mode, Key Lock acts just as you think it would. It's actually on by default and you click the lock to turn it off.
In external control mode, however, this behavior changes.
When using a TT or CD to control the decks, pressing the key lock loads a key offset value into the Key display here...
The offset is the difference between the current speed of the song and it's original value. So it's not tracking changes in real time. But hey, you just have to make your adjustment and hit the button, right?
Wrong. This is the freaky part.
The Key offset is determined by the Speed section next to it.
When you make chanes to the physical speed of the timecode source (using the pitch slider), the AUDIBLE change is instant. But the section highlighted in the above pic tracks that change SLOWLY over 2 or 3 seconds. You can see this value creep when you make changes in pitch. So, if you hit the Key Lock button before the Speed value has settled into it's final position, you'll introduce an INCORRECT OFFSET in the Key section.
This is VASTLY inferior to the way FS2/TDJS handles key changes, and I'm sure to the way SSL's 1.7 key locking feature will as well. Another chink in the armor. Since this behavior is documented in the manual, we know it's a "feature" and not a bug.
Hopefully M-Audio will see that this is NOT the way we want our key locking and will change this functionality in an update.
Re: Torq Key Locking SUCKS in external control modes.
Ahh interesting... I noticed it was behaving very oddly when I tried to use the key lock feature.
| quote: |
| Originally posted by nem0nic Another question from the heads over at the SSL boards lead me to find a pretty major problem in the way Torq handles Key Locking when in external control modes. If you're in internal mode, Key Lock acts just as you think it would. It's actually on by default and you click the lock to turn it off. In external control mode, however, this behavior changes. When using a TT or CD to control the decks, pressing the key lock loads a key offset value into the Key display here... The offset is the difference between the current speed of the song and it's original value. So it's not tracking changes in real time. But hey, you just have to make your adjustment and hit the button, right? Wrong. This is the freaky part. The Key offset is determined by the Speed section next to it. When you make chanes to the physical speed of the timecode source (using the pitch slider), the AUDIBLE change is instant. But the section highlighted in the above pic tracks that change SLOWLY over 2 or 3 seconds. You can see this value creep when you make changes in pitch. So, if you hit the Key Lock button before the Speed value has settled into it's final position, you'll introduce an INCORRECT OFFSET in the Key section. This is VASTLY inferior to the way FS2/TDJS handles key changes, and I'm sure to the way SSL's 1.7 key locking feature will as well. Another chink in the armor. Since this behavior is documented in the manual, we know it's a "feature" and not a bug. Hopefully M-Audio will see that this is NOT the way we want our key locking and will change this functionality in an update. |
just as i was about to buy serato. thanks :P
Conectiv users head over to the unofficial Torq forum to discuss its features, problems and so on @ www.torqdj.com
Cheers
My friend worked on this unit... it's supposed to be hot.
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