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-- Feeling Nickeled and Dimed? You aren't alone!
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Originally posted by MarkT 4. the sub-$40 fee to register a change of address is for the convenience of you not having to contact EVERYONE who would otherwise require this information. A small price to pay, IMHO. But it's not REQUIRED. You are welcome to call your bank, your employer, every gov't agency you deal with, all your friends and family, etc. and relay the new information...and of course you will still forget several people. Why should this be free? How are you affording to "move up in the world" and change your address if this $40 is a hardship?

The sad part about this is, the address change is only a redirect to your new address for 6 months. Sadly you will still need to contact all these companies and inform them of the change. This way you have 6 months to do so, after that the mail from the companies not updated will end up at your old address again.

I think it is worth it but remember to update everyone on your list.

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Originally posted by MarkT cry me a fucking river. 1. if you feel our taxes are too high, don't move here.

you dont get warning when you sign up to come.

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Canadians enjoy substantial access to social services, basic healthcare,

Joking right? Have you been to the hospital lately? Ok sure its better than some 3rd world countries but compared to the modern world, we dont get what we pay for at all.

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subsidized education,

go to europe or china and compare their level of education to ours. Theyd kill us in a nanosecond (and probably be able to tell u what a nanosecond is by grade 3)

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reliable municipal services,

true there.. we do have decent paved streets, but most countries feature DAILY garbage pickup among other things.

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a decent infrastructure,

really? like the amazing highway/public transport system we have? yeah right!

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stable gov't,

ill give you that one... no wars here.. be we have had our share of corruption. Both reported and unreported i might add.

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decent employment opportunity, etc.

compared to cost of living, canadian wages after taxes are a joke.

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That all either costs money or are worth a premium, IMHO. Part of the reason someone probably left their country is because one or more of these things were NOT the case there.

1 example i can give you where thats not the case is argentina. Ok the country has been politically unstable lately. But the average person there isnt doing that badly. Most have a decent house. A car, food to eat, nice furnishings, internet etc. And those are the people who want to move to canada because they think everything is better here. They think that when they arrive they will be able to afford all these things and more. But most people end up leaving a comfortable middle class life only to end up driving a taxi here or mopping floors.

Rent is a big thing in Toronto esp. An average person will probably shell out more than half his income just for housing. By contrast, teachers in argentina make 2000 pesos a month and spend 300 of that on rent for a decent sized apartment.

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2. Appliances (fridge and stove, at minimum) are usually provided in virtually any apt, condo or house. If not, you should find another place to live. You may have to share these appliances, but you don't have to buy your own. As for furniture, since when is free furniture to be expected? And furnished accomodation is often available.

furnished accomodation is very common in foreign countries. In fact many times its the only option. When you have to furnish your own, yes you are on the hook for a fridge and stove, but like a house, they are yours to keep. And you dont have to pay to have them delivered or installed either.

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3. If $55 to switch your phone is breaking you, how will you afford the monthly phone bill in the first place? Is the phone service where you are coming from as reliable as Bell? Will it be quickly repaired if lines are down, as it is with Bell? I can't remember the last time my phone was down at all, nevermind for any length of time.

its not the point whether its breaking you or not. Its the principal. Our telecommunications are amongst the best in the world but that doesnt give them the right to nickle and dime. Why not include these in the price (like they used to be i might add)

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4. the sub-$40 fee to register a change of address is for the convenience of you not having to contact EVERYONE who would otherwise require this information. A small price to pay, IMHO. But it's not REQUIRED. You are welcome to call your bank, your employer, every gov't agency you deal with, all your friends and family, etc. and relay the new information...and of course you will still forget several people. Why should this be free? How are you affording to "move up in the world" and change your address if this $40 is a hardship?[/quote[ its not permanant and used to be a free service in canada as well. its in the post office's interest to make sure you get the mail otherwise people wont use the service. A returned letter also costs the post office more than the stamp pays for. [quote]5. a car is not a right. if you can afford a car and gas, not to mention insurance and maintenance, then that $55 phone hookup and $37.10 address mentioned above is pretty neglidible, I'd argue. Since when is a parking spot $20,000 besides an owned condo space (and you have to live in most condos to buy such a space anyway)? Parking in the downtown core can *easily* be found for $100-150/month, MAX. Parking in the burbs is usually available to employees...if not, car pool or take transit.

A car is almost an essential and many times is an essential tool in Canada. Public transport is slow, innefficient and expensive. And parking is very expensive here. Even europeans complain about parking charges here (and they come from expensive countries)

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I was waiting for complaints of job skills or education obtained overseas not being recognized here...but this article is nothing more than whining from someone looking for handouts. Where did they come from if these costs are breaking them? and do such costs outweigh the benefit of coming here in the first place?

dont even get me started on the scam that is our immigration system

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Originally posted by English Rachel Yes lovey, wait until you get a paycheque and look at the gross/net amounts and realize that HALF of your gross earnings has gone to taxes and EI. Now, before you all jump on me and say I earn a fortune, I call bullshit on that - I live alone in an expensive city, there is no tax relief for me on that. I pay the cable and phone bills myself, the $1400 rent and internet - any tax relief for me? No. The fact that HALF of my earnings go before I see it is disgusting. No wonder people aren't saving enough for their retirement. I don't mind the cost of things here, yes, I work hard and live a full life but I am not fucking Madonna.

Indeed. But I bolded two things I found interesting.

How many other non-essential items do you waste your money on while blaming an incapability to save on high taxes? 100 bucks a month saved on internet and cable goes a long way 20 years down the road with interest. (Maybe YOU can save and can easily afford these things, you didn't say if you're succesful or not, I'm just making a point.)

Yes, we're overtaxed, but one of the reasons is people put themselves into poverty with undisciplined spending, and then the government bails them out with social programs that, in turn, cause our taxes to be raised (Why do we pay people welfare for sitting on their asses doing nothing while NOT getting a job?).

Case in point, I have friends that make more money than me, but experience less financial freedom because they are poor money managers. And there are tons of people just like them all over Canada.

We should cancel welfare, and put all that money into a new course in High School called "Common Sense and Living Basics: How not to suck, moron!"

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Originally posted by Spam Indeed. But I bolded two things I found interesting. How many other non-essential items do you waste your money on while blaming an incapability to save on high taxes? 100 bucks a month saved on internet and cable goes a long way 20 years down the road with interest. (Maybe YOU can save and can easily afford these things, you didn't say if you're succesful or not, I'm just making a point.) Yes, we're overtaxed, but one of the reasons is people put themselves into poverty with undisciplined spending, and then the government bails them out with social programs that, in turn, cause our taxes to be raised (Why do we pay people welfare for sitting on their asses doing nothing while NOT getting a job?). Case in point, I have friends that make more money than me, but experience less financial freedom because they are poor money managers. And there are tons of people just like them all over Canada. We should cancel welfare, and put all that money into a new course in High School called "Common Sense and Living Basics: How not to suck, moron!"

I save a fortune, I have a lot of money both in a savings account and I own a house in England. My point is not that I am poor, or that I can't afford to save, or that tax prevents me from buying/doing/saving anything I want. I would just have MORE to save or spend or do stuff with. And, when the 50% bracket was put in place, the salary I earn WAS a LOT of money, now it isn't. That's all I was saying.

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Originally posted by Spam We should cancel welfare, and put all that money into a new course in High School called "Common Sense and Living Basics: How not to suck, moron!"

Awesome.

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Originally posted by Spam We should cancel welfare, and put all that money into a new course in High School called "Common Sense and Living Basics: How not to suck, moron!"

I couldn't agree more with this either!

lol yea we did do a thread on tipping...
but realize that if you take away the tips the waitresses r not gonna give shit about the service they provide for you..lol trust me on that one

So Jayx1 do you only respond when you can argue based on non-facts?

Lets see some proof.

Just look at those numbers....

30-50% income tax.... taken before you even get the cheque!
14% on goods and services...
low interest savings, high taxes on withdrawals..
high interest on borrowing money...

Roud it up and we look at about 70% of our life in Canada is taxed away into the rest of the country! SO... 30% of a life of work in Canada is paid!

... but if oyu look at it from another angle... the taxes are the cost of being in this club. Canada treats its citizens well! The country can't control the industries that pay huge taxes to operate in it. Unemployment is bound to happen, and so is poverty and the rich. These things are the perpetual factors that drive economy.

We need consumers to buy things from companies that set prices to pay consumers to buy things. When prices go up, we need consumers to increase thier salary through productivity growth, which contributes to the companies, which in turn need to pay more taxes for bigger business, and the consumers can then make enough money to pay for products/services that in turn drive the economies of the world, through industrial competition. Those taxes pay for the vast ammenities that many of us take for granted.

There's one thing wrong though.... the cost for students to be students is horribly too high. The cost to do business at a minimal level is far too high.

I'm curious to know who is feeling a 50% income tax slap, because that's ridiculous.

If you somehow are, and I'm wondering how, given that the highest federal tax bracket is 29% and Ontario's is ~12% AFAIK, you need to hire yourself a financial advisor in a hurry, because that's insane and avoidable.

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Originally posted by The Highroller An example that I always find comical: a bathroom attendant with a tipping plate in the washroom at Beba. Beba is a bar. What's next? A washroom attendant in the local sports bar?

Worse is at CZ. The washrooms are filthy, disgusting places and some guy hordes all the paper towel then wants a tip for handing it to you. That's why I go upstairs to the bar washroom there. It's cleaner and there's no attendant. If I'm forced to use the downstairs ones I make sure to get some gum and spray on the most expensive cologne he's got before tossing him a loonie.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Rent is a big thing in Toronto esp. An average person will probably shell out more than half his income just for housing. A car is almost an essential and many times is an essential tool in Canada. Public transport is slow, innefficient and expensive. And parking is very expensive here. Even europeans complain about parking charges here (and they come from expensive countries)

Count me in that average person and rent thing. My rent is almost 50% of my income. I wouldn't mind but my rent has gone up about $250 in the past 6 years. My income isn't rising that fast, I work for the government with limited raises.


I have to disagree with your comment on cars. While for many there may be inconveniance from not owning a car I don't believe it's essential for everyone. Essential and conveniant aren't the same thing. It can make some things more difficult but if you live in a big city like Toronto it's quite possible to live without a car. I've never gotten my licence. You don't miss what you've never had and I just haven't felt the need to get one. Now if you live in a mid-size town in say northern Alberta you might have a problem. Also it depends on what you do for a living and if you have kids or not. Oh yeah, I'm not one of those people who mooches rides from friends all the time.

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Originally posted by Spam We should cancel welfare, and put all that money into a new course in High School called "Common Sense and Living Basics: How not to suck, moron!"

That would only work if everyone on welfare was there because they are stupid. I grew up in Nfld, I know LOTS of families where for them it's a way of life. 3 generations all living in one big house, every last one of them over 18 on welfare and none with any intent on changing. I'm sure other provinces have their fair share of that sort of people too.

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Originally posted by The Highroller I agree that the notion of tipping is pretty ridiculous in most cases. An example that I always find comical: a bathroom attendant with a tipping plate in the washroom at Beba. Beba is a bar. What's next? A washroom attendant in the local sports bar?

Or better yet...McDonalds

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Originally posted by Jayx1 By contrast, teachers in argentina make 2000 pesos a month and spend 300 of that on rent for a decent sized apartment.

Fuck, 300 Argentinian Pesos is $108 CDN per month. Shit.

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Originally posted by Orko So Jayx1 do you only respond when you can argue based on non-facts? Lets see some proof.

what do you want? My friend's paystub from argentina? My rent payment receipts?

Im talking from real life experience for the most part.

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 Fuck, 300 Argentinian Pesos is $108 CDN per month. Shit.

Yeah and that was my rent payment and was average rent when i was there. 2000 pesos isnt a lot of money either. But compare 2000 pesos to rent of 300 and you are laughing. You could never have that kind of ratio as a teacher here.

This is why i laugh at those ads for poor people in other countries that say "little jaunita's family lives on only $400 a month." What they fail to tell you is that the $400 a month probably gives them a very comfortable living where they are.

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I have to disagree with your comment on cars. While for many there may be inconveniance from not owning a car I don't believe it's essential for everyone. Essential and conveniant aren't the same thing. It can make some things more difficult but if you live in a big city like Toronto it's quite possible to live without a car. I've never gotten my licence. You don't miss what you've never had and I just haven't felt the need to get one. Now if you live in a mid-size town in say northern Alberta you might have a problem. Also it depends on what you do for a living and if you have kids or not. Oh yeah, I'm not one of those people who mooches rides from friends all the time.

If you live and stay downtown and work day hours you are right. But a lot of people commute from the suburbs or have night jobs. Public transport is either a non-option or a very inefficient one. Ive been to 3rd world countries that put our transportation infrastructure (including highways) to shame.

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Originally posted by Jayx1 Yeah and that was my rent payment and was average rent when i was there. 2000 pesos isnt a lot of money either. But compare 2000 pesos to rent of 300 and you are laughing. You could never have that kind of ratio as a teacher here. This is why i laugh at those ads for poor people in other countries that say "little jaunita's family lives on only $400 a month." What they fail to tell you is that the $400 a month probably gives them a very comfortable living where they are.

Well i agree with u for most of the things u say...

u are not 100% correct about rent

lets say a teacher makes about 3000 a month, after taxes is left with about 2400 or so.

if u choose to live in Toronto yes u will pay 1400 for rent (2 bedroom)...
however noones forces u to live in toronto...u can move to a smaller town where rent will be much less, about 800 for same size..

this is not as good of a ratio as u speak of argentina, but it is much lower.

Lot of the big expenses you speak of can be eliminated by moving to a smaller town..

no parking costs
50% reduction in rent cost

right there ur already saving urself 800-1000 a month..

There was a recent survey done in the U.S. that clearly showed that people that live in smaller towns have much higher savings rates than those in cities. Living in western PA, my gf and I pulled in about $87K in one year and was able to save about $40K, after paying all of life's expenses including trips to Toronto, summer trip to Ibiza, rent (the same rent which could have easily gone to pay the mortgage on a 3 bedroom 2 bathroom house), car insurance, taxes etc.
Both of us doing the same type of work in Toronto might gross us $100K a year, but there's no way in hell we would have been able to save $40K living the same lifestyle because of car insurance thats 5X more expensive, the mortgage on the same house would be about double, not to mention the interest not being tax deductible, the 30-50% tax, the 20-40% premium on consumer goods on Canada vs the U.S, etc. Of course Toronto offers much better dining, more opportunity to build social capital, etc, than western PA, but the tradeoff is you must do with less.
According to the following article, the median family income in toronto is $63700. To me trying to buy any property in Toronto and raising a family on such an income would be nearly impossible. Better off in a small town where the median income will get you a lot more, if thats what you want.
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/cen...inc/toronto.cfm

This thread is kind of strange.
Jayx1, I'm just curious, were you born in Canada?

I immigrated here, and I find it laughable at many of the things the article pointed out. I'm not sure what effect there is in using a point of view of an immigrant crying about life in Canada. If things were so happy and stable and fine from wherever immigrants are comming from, why move here at all? And if there is so much to complain about, why stay here? I find it ludicrous to state that some of these facts are taken in stride by Canadian born residents, but are a shock to immigrants. What exactly is the point of that statement? Should every single law, rule, form of etiquette, spoken and unspoken taboo be explained to immigrants? No. Facts are immigrating will take you into a new land with completely different customs, and they should learn to adapt.
As for the costs of living in Canada, yes, they are high. You don't like it? Get the f*** out of Toronto, out of the bigger urban areas. It is not nearly as expensive in the more 'remote' regions of Canada. This is just how it is, for a multitude of reasons. Deal with it.
It is expensive, but do immigrants deserve some kind of break, some form of charity because their Canadian-born brethren have a leg up on them? Perhaps a few, but in general I'd have to say no. We all have to start somewhere. The cold hard reality is that Canadian-born citizens, immigrants, and first-generation citizens are paying taxes, equally, and covering a lot of the basic infrastructure of the country that they seem to have no problem with taking for granted.

Also, lol at comparing Canada to Argentina. Clearly we stand on the same ladder on the world stage. Economic systems and etiquette of living are just different from country to country. There is a lot to be fixed here, true, but bitching and complaining about change-of-address fees and delivery charges probably is not the way to do it. It does get on my nerves sometimes too to have to pay for every step I take, but there are ways around it, you just have to take your time and manage your money well. Something I have yet to learn

Change of address in the US costs $1 online and is permanent. Not $37, with a need to renew in 6 mos. Sorry, but bill collectors are not the only ones who need to know of your address change, and not everyone has email to know of your address change to send out a quick note.

One recent visitor for my wedding couldn't believe the price of some things while she was up here. 4 drinks at the hotel bar cost them just over $40 (although I told her hotels are some of the more expensive places to drink, where ever u are in the world), but she was totally shocked at the price of a black eyeliner from the Rexall drug store- over $9. I know for a fact that the liquid Loreal liner I use sells for over $11 at Shoppers, while at Target in the US you can get it for $5.97. BIG difference.

Overall, I think some things are very similar in price, its the taxes that kill you. I swore I would never buy a car here in Canada for fear of the taxes, but I had to this past January. Brutal!!! But definitely there are MUCH better sales and bargains to be found in the US. Anyone travelling there should hit up a Target or Walmart or even an Old Navy and see the difference.

One thing I wish would change in price is the price of books. Know how the liner always has one price for US and Canada? Well, that made sense when the CDN dollar was valued at $0.65, but now that its near equal, it pains me to pay $35 for something that would cost $20 in the US.

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Originally posted by tatgirl One thing I wish would change in price is the price of books. Know how the liner always has one price for US and Canada? Well, that made sense when the CDN dollar was valued at $0.65, but now that its near equal, it pains me to pay $35 for something that would cost $20 in the US.

I have a book-habit (read 7 in a week when I went to Cuba) and yes, it can be very expensive at $20 a pop.

I joined the library and this is saving me some money but I am a germophobe so it grosses me out

In England, you can buy books in the supermarket and they are about 4 pounds for new releases, something I wish Loblaws would do (sure, you can buy them there but they are almost full price)

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Originally posted by English Rachel I have a book-habit (read 7 in a week when I went to Cuba) and yes, it can be very expensive at $20 a pop.

I hear ya. When I move, half my shite is just books.

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I joined the library and this is saving me some money but I am a germophobe so it grosses me out

Hand sanitizer is your friend...

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Originally posted by EvilTree I hear ya. When I move, half my shite is just books. Hand sanitizer is your friend...

I couldn't bring my books with me Although in 2 years I have managed to fill a bookcase!!!

I spray them lightly with lysol haha!!

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Originally posted by Cro_Addict Well i agree with u for most of the things u say... u are not 100% correct about rent lets say a teacher makes about 3000 a month, after taxes is left with about 2400 or so. if u choose to live in Toronto yes u will pay 1400 for rent (2 bedroom)... however noones forces u to live in toronto...u can move to a smaller town where rent will be much less, about 800 for same size.. this is not as good of a ratio as u speak of argentina, but it is much lower. Lot of the big expenses you speak of can be eliminated by moving to a smaller town.. no parking costs 50% reduction in rent cost right there ur already saving urself 800-1000 a month..

i forget to mention that the 2000 pesos was AFTER TAX and living in downtown buenos aires.

Smaller towns there were even cheaper. But who wants to live in a small town? I dont mind big city expense as long as that city can offer me the lifestyle i choose. Lately, toronto cant offer a big city experience, just big city expense.

1 more thing... i never buy axe or red bull in canada. We pay almost double for both of what anyone else pays anywhere else. I buy a lot of it in the states and import it.

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