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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] In Russia, these cultures HAVE THEIR OWN republics, their language in those regiions is equal to the official language, they have their own parliament, laws, economy, history, culture and monuments. What about YOUR country? COLOR]

Oh, so the Russians MAKE them have their own republic so they can't participate in RUSSIAS republic. Yeah tell me how that is not SEGREGATION?? Does the Jewish oblast sound familiar? Its segregation! They are just like here being treated like second class citizens.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Does your classes teach about other cultures' values in your area? Like the Navajo Indians. You probably dont even know what state(s) they live in!!!

Arizona and New mexico and states close to that. I bet you know where the Jews live in Russia. Afterall they HAVE ALL REGION NAMED FOR THEM TOO LIVE IN!

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Was there every a Russian premier or a president? Mayber there were Tsarinas but that was different. And another thing I would love to vote for a female president. Sex has nothing to do with leadership. My mayor is a female and she is good. I was spitting on WHITE russians. Because they pick on everybody else. NOT all White Ruskies. But many do. And yeah my family wasn't here for that type of segregation. And trust me tha USA will be a better place when those who were alive than die out.

Haha ... Gorbachev, Krushchev = Ukrainians, Stalin = Georgian, Lenin = born Tatarstan, etc. etc.

Russian rep. in the WHOLE FAR EAST of Russia is Tatarian. Russian economy minister is ethnic Volga German.

We dont pick on others as much as you do. I lived in Russia in 1990s, I've seen how western businesses manipulate and impoverish our country. How they rip their profits and dont give a shit about developing the infrastructure, or building schools or anything like that.

Last time I checked its US and other corporate interests bullying the world. Don't you think?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Haha ... Gorbachev, Krushchev = Ukrainians, Stalin = Georgian, Lenin = born Tatarstan, etc. etc. Russian rep. in the WHOLE FAR EAST of Russia is Tatarian. Russian economy minister is ethnic Volga German. We dont pick on others as much as you do. I lived in Russia in 1990s, I've seen how western businesses manipulate and impoverish our country. How they rip their profits and dont give a shit about developing the infrastructure, or building schools or anything like that. Last time I checked its US and other corporate interests bullying the world. Don't you think?

Yes and no. Not every corporation does bad. And don't you think it takes corrupt politicians to succeed in ripping a country off? If they cared for russia than they wouldn't allow them to do it. however russians care for money and the opportunity to make easy money is too alluring for some russians. Just ask the oligarches and the clerks who sold them the land.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Oh, so the Russians MAKE them have their own republic so they can't participate in RUSSIAS republic. Yeah tell me how that is not SEGREGATION?? Does the Jewish oblast sound familiar? Its segregation! They are just like here being treated like second class citizens.

For the love of .... in the areas where Tatars lived, they were given their own republic. Okay?

aND alll kinds of great Russian leaders, historians, artists, teachers and scientists were jews, kalmiks, tatars, bashkirs, etc. etc.

We dont segregate, you dont know anything about a republic do you?

Ugh, forget it, I am not a teacher, this forum sucks ass. I am going to sleepp.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium For the love of .... in the areas where Tatars lived, they were given their own republic. Okay? aND alll kinds of great Russian leaders, historians, artists, teachers and scientists were jews, kalmiks, tatars, bashkirs, etc. etc. We dont segregate, you dont know anything about a republic do you? Ugh, forget it, I am not a teacher, this forum sucks ass. I am going to sleepp.

RUSSIA THE GREAT

ITS A WEBSITE YOU MIGHT WANT TO LOOK FOR IT ON GOOGLE

GOOD NIGHT I THINK I DID MORE TEACHING TONIGHT THANKS TO YOU!

i don't know enough about the conflict between Russia and Georgia to comment but i strongly disagree with: "ISNT IT WHY HE ALLOWED CHECHNYA is own president, parliament and they actually voted on referendum to stay within Russia!"

Russia raped and pillaged Chechnya laying waste to Grozny and leaving an estimated 80,000 Chechyn civilians dead. At one stage there would be 6 girls to every male in Grosny because once a teenage boy would reach 13 he would face a very difficult decision: Join the Chechyn resistence in the mountains or face the very real possibility of being detained, tortured, killed, or "dissapeared" by the Russian military and the death squads that operate under cover of night. To minimise the body count the Russian army is known to have tied groups of people together and place explosives on them to scatter their remains so that an overall death count will never be determined; the documentary i saw showed dogs gnawing on human limbs that they had found around the neighbourhood

http://www.crimesofwar.org/chechnya...-interview.html

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Yes and no. Not every corporation does bad. And don't you think it takes corrupt politicians to succeed in ripping a country off? If they cared for russia than they wouldn't allow them to do it. however russians care for money and the opportunity to make easy money is too alluring for some russians. Just ask the oligarches and the clerks who sold them the land.

Look at Iraq - look at US government and corporate support than first CRIPPLED the country with heavy sanctions resulting in deaths of over 500,000 people from hunger and lack of fresh water, then they illegally invade the country and set off a secterian war which doesnt seem to end.

Russia is not invading any countries. Just defending its integrity and working fair with its neighbours, while Georgia, Ukraine and NATO are ripping Russians off.

That Wiki link you provided me actually said they proved Ukraine was ripping Russia by 4.5 billion dollars every year.
You ignored the fact that even though you think what Russia did was unfair, you are very OK with what Georgia is doing.

Seems like you confortably assume you "taught me a lesson" while you havent really explained yourself at all, with all the holes in your story.

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Originally posted by tathi i don't know enough about the conflict between Russia and Georgia to comment but i strongly disagree with: "ISNT IT WHY HE ALLOWED CHECHNYA is own president, parliament and they actually voted on referendum to stay within Russia!" Russia raped and pillaged Chechnya laying waste to Grozny and leaving an estimated 80,000 Chechyn civilians dead. At one stage there would be 6 girls to every male in Grosny because once a teenage boy would reach 13 he would face a very difficult decision: Join the Chechyn resistence in the mountains or face the very real possibility of being detained, tortured, killed, or "dissapeared" by the Russian military and the death squads that operate under cover of night. To minimise the body count the Russian army is known to have tied groups of people together and place explosives on them to scatter their remains so that an overall death count will never be determined; the documentary i saw showed dogs gnawing on human limbs that they had found around the neighbourhood http://www.crimesofwar.org/chechnya...-interview.html

All wars involve acts of crimes, and yes the Russian soldiers committed crimes too. BUT so did Chechen fighters. WHat about Beslan, Nord-Ost, the suicide bombings, and apartment bombings in 1999? WHAT ABOUT THAT?

Have you seen the recent developments in Chechnya? Grozny is getting rebuilt, new bridges and telephone lines, Russia declared amnesty for fighters in the mountains, many troops have been withdrawn and only internal police/MVD is left. Things are becoming quite peaceful. Stop living in the past and look AT THE CURRENT PICTURE.

Look at Iraq, and there's way worse things going on there and noone is talking about how USA should pull out of there, its perfectly fine. Oh, and Australia is supporting this INVASION too with troops!

And so you think USA didnt commit any war crimes in Iraq?

I certainly didn't expect this conversation to turn into a Russia versus USA fight.


Nice one guys.

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Originally posted by jdat I certainly didn't expect this conversation to turn into a Russia versus USA fight. Nice one guys.

I'm not too blame for this. But I did put spice to the flavor (seeing as to how Im a latino you know spice to the flavor you know?)




Alright maybe you don't

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Russia is not invading any countries. Just defending its integrity and working fair with its neighbours, while Georgia, Ukraine and NATO are ripping Russians off.

Its integrity? They are corrupting the CIS and installing puppet regimes. They are acting a lot like USA.

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That Wiki link you provided me actually said they proved Ukraine was ripping Russia by 4.5 billion dollars every year. You ignored the fact that even though you think what Russia did was unfair, you are very OK with what Georgia is doing.

I don't remember providing ANY link. And no Im not ok with what Georgia is doing.

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Seems like you confortably assume you "taught me a lesson" while you havent really explained yourself at all, with all the holes in your story.

My story? Ok, I think Russia is focusing too much of its foreign policy. And nothing on domestic issues. Look at Russians. They are growing poorer, while the rich getting richer. In one yr the number of billionaires exploded and still not enough Russians have enough money to support themselves and their families.

Have you read how the oligarches got rich?

here in USA there are corporations that are owned by the government. Its a gov monopoly. Like comed for example. That is gov owned. But the fact is that they don't export to other nations. Russia on the other hand wants corporations that export to other countries. Do you know why? B/c they are more focused on international market than domestic market.

Alright-Im done-I have nothing to say anymore.


/rant

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Its integrity? They are corrupting the CIS and installing puppet regimes. They are acting a lot like USA. I don't remember providing ANY link. And no Im not ok with what Georgia is doing. My story? Ok, I think Russia is focusing too much of its foreign policy. And nothing on domestic issues. Look at Russians. They are growing poorer, while the rich getting richer. In one yr the number of billionaires exploded and still not enough Russians have enough money to support themselves and their families. Have you read how the oligarches got rich? here in USA there are corporations that are owned by the government. Its a gov monopoly. Like comed for example. That is gov owned. But the fact is that they don't export to other nations. Russia on the other hand wants corporations that export to other countries. Do you know why? B/c they are more focused on international market than domestic market. Alright-Im done-I have nothing to say anymore. /rant

Hey hey hey! For once I liked what you wrote there. Yes, Russia is focused too much on foreign policy than domestic (should be vice versa). Yes, Russia has big problems with corruption and greedy oligarghs - I was happy to see how Putin cracked down on those same oligarhhhhs Berezovskiy and Gusinskiy. There was some much evidence against Berezovskiy, even INTERPOL NOW ISSUED AN ARREST WARRANT FOR HIM! And Yukos - how many billions of dollars in back taxes they didnt pay? 5 billion? 10 billion? Russia is not making it up, its the truth ... those criminals are living off average people.

And when Putin cracked down on them, he's the "oppressor". Oh, but he's not angel either, so dont get me wrong on that, he's got his own shady side too. But his main goal is to strengthen the country, to keep it together, because EU and NATO/USA want Russia divided and in flames to control it better. Remember what happened to Soviet Union? They want the same thing to Russia.

Putin has passed many great laws, like providing a large financial assistance to mothers with 2 or more children, raising pensions for retirees and veterans, lowering military service to 1 year, making it illegal for conscripts to fight in a war (only contractors now), amassing huge projects like building bridges, tunnels in Siberia, Chechnya, etc. HE SIGNED A LAW GIVING 2 BILLION DOLLARS OVER 10 YEARS TO FIX CHECHNYA'S INFRASTRUCTURE! etc. etc. etc.

Sure the government is corrupt, sure they dont care much about people. But what they are doing in Georgia is not act of agression - RUSSIA DOESNT WANT ANYTHING FROM GEORGIA. THERE'S NO OIL THERE, NO STRATEGIC GRIDS, NO MONEY, NO GAS ... they're just becoming a pain in the ass for Russia by agressively acting to Russian and starting up another war wave in Southern Caucasus. Instead of focusing on peace and rebuilding, these Georgian politicians are BUYING UP massive stockpiles of weapons, clearly for a war so that they can win political support to do a quick fix for their problems. And seizing Kodoria was the first step.

Magnetonium, I like what you are saying, but I think you are too strict and partly blind.

I have just one question to you.

What have you left Russia? Why don't you live there now?



I'm Russian, I don't like my country because of bullshit like that which is going on there constantly. That's why I left this country and I won't ever comeback live there again.

I think it's a Fasism that Russian authoritaries are doing at the moment. I fully understand that Georgia and its goverment is a piece of shit too. But Russia must not do SUCH ugly things towards this country.

I don't understand why yesterday ALL Georgia's criminals who are in Russia at them moment were living in HAPPINIES AND HARMONY and NO BODY WAS GIVING A FUCK about them, but today they are pursued by local authoritaries who were COVERING them up and TAKING BRIBES from them yesterday.

I don't understand that SHIT.

Even US with all its stupidy in the goverment at the moment, does not allow to stuff like this happens.

quote:

Originally posted by star-traveller Magnetonium, I like what you are saying, but I think you are too strict and partly blind. I have just one question to you. What have you left Russia? Why don't you live there now? I'm Russian, I don't like my country because of bullshit like that which is going on there constantly. That's why I left this country and I won't ever comeback live there again. I think it's a Fasism that Russian authoritaries are doing at the moment. I fully understand that Georgia and its goverment is a piece of shit too. But Russia must not do SUCH ugly things towards this country. I don't understand why yesterday ALL Georgia's criminals who are in Russia at them moment were living in HAPPINIES AND HARMONY and NO BODY WAS GIVING A FUCK about them, but today they are pursued by local authoritaries who were COVERING them up and TAKING BRIBES from them yesterday. I don't understand that SHIT. Even US with all its stupidy in the goverment at the moment, does not allow to stuff like this happens.

Putin and his bureacrats are very ignorant. They let mafia and gangs do all they want ... but only with a rule that they dont get in government's way. Horseshit, eh? Putin is no angel as I said before, thats a different topic though ... Putin got tired of Georgian provocations and decided to put pressure on Georgia to make them understand that they shouldn't bully Russia because it has politial muscles. In a way its "bullying". But what Georgia did is provoking Russia using its own "bullying" or "provocations". Luckily Russkies didnt go as far as Americans would in this situation - economy and gas are still flowing into Georgia. No economic embargo is placed, other than on piss-poor-quality wines and alcohol.

USA has its own corruption and shit, and it all starts with something in Congress called "lobbying" which is another world for "bribing" pretty much

I support Russia dominating these smaller countries. All this long they helped people in these countries by giving them subsidized oil, gas, food, technology, bizness, employment etc.. and now since the inception of EU all these countries just want to do is join them. Bunch of hypocrites.. thwart them; withdraw all subsidies and show them where they stand in reality.

Look the more they dominate these countries; the more, the west will view Russia as negative. Not only Western governments, but also the western people.

And seeing as to how only 700k tourists from foreign countries go to Russia. The most likely chance is that people will believe what they hear about Russia and the Russian people.

Mag, Im moving to Cheboksary.

It looks so beautiful compare to Sochi.

On a smilar note...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5416218.stm

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Chechen war reporter found dead Anna Politkovskaya, a prominent Russian journalist known as a fierce critic of the Kremlin's actions in Chechnya, has been found dead in Moscow. The 48-year-old mother of two was found shot dead in a lift at her apartment block in the capital. A pistol and four bullets were found near her body and a murder investigation has been launched. Ms Politkovskaya's murder has all the hallmarks of a contract killing, says the BBC's Emma Simpson in Moscow. The award-winning journalist became ill with food poisoning on her way to report on the Beslan school siege in 2004, which some believed to be an attempt on her life. Ms Politkovskaya, who worked for the newspaper Novaya Gazeta, was known for exposing rights abuses by Russian troops in Chechnya. She also acted as a negotiator with the Chechen rebels who held a siege in a Moscow theatre in 2002. The head of Russia's journalism union described her as the conscience of the country's journalism. She was one of the few remaining high-profile, independent journalists in Russia - and her death will cause widespread anger and shock, says our Moscow correspondent. 'Honest journalism' Ms Politkovskaya was killed at around 1630 local time (1330 GMT), Dmitry Muratov, editor in chief of the Novaya Gazeta said. Vitaly Yaroshevsky, deputy editor of the newspaper, believes she was killed because of her work. "The first thing that comes to mind is that Anna was killed for her professional activities. We don't see any other motive for this terrible crime," he told the Reuters news agency. Moscow deputy prosecutor Vyacheslav Rosinsky has said investigators are considering the link between the journalist's death and her work. "We think that one of the leads of Politkovskaya's intentional homicide is her public duty," he told Russian agency Itar-Tass. Oleg Panfilov, director of the Moscow-based Center for Journalism in Extreme Situations, said Ms Politkovskaya had frequently received threats. "There are journalists who have this fate hanging over them. I always thought something would happen to Anya, first of all because of Chechnya," he told the Associated Press news agency. "Whenever the question arose whether there is honest journalism in Russia, almost every time the first name that came to mind was Politkovskaya," he added. In 2001, she fled to Vienna, Austria, after receiving e-mail threats claiming a Russian police officer she had accused of committing atrocities against civilians wanted to take his revenge. In an interview two years ago with the BBC, Ms Politkovskaya said she believed it was her duty to continue reporting, despite receiving such death threats. "I am absolutely sure that risk is [a] usual part of my job; job of [a] Russian journalist, and I cannot stop because it's my duty," she said. "I think the duty of doctors is to give health to their patients, the duty of the singer to sing. The duty of [the] journalist [is] to write what this journalist sees in the reality. It's only one duty."

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Originally posted by star-traveller Magnetonium, I like what you are saying, but I think you are too strict and partly blind. I have just one question to you. What have you left Russia? Why don't you live there now? I'm Russian, I don't like my country because of bullshit like that which is going on there constantly. That's why I left this country and I won't ever comeback live there again. I think it's a Fasism that Russian authoritaries are doing at the moment. I fully understand that Georgia and its goverment is a piece of shit too. But Russia must not do SUCH ugly things towards this country. I don't understand why yesterday ALL Georgia's criminals who are in Russia at them moment were living in HAPPINIES AND HARMONY and NO BODY WAS GIVING A FUCK about them, but today they are pursued by local authoritaries who were COVERING them up and TAKING BRIBES from them yesterday. I don't understand that SHIT. Even US with all its stupidy in the goverment at the moment, does not allow to stuff like this happens.

I miss Russia ... I miss my beautiful Sochi. I'll be back, I had many beautiful moments there. I won't get into detail, but I really really miss it.

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Originally posted by Purple I support Russia dominating these smaller countries. All this long they helped people in these countries by giving them subsidized oil, gas, food, technology, bizness, employment etc.. and now since the inception of EU all these countries just want to do is join EU [& NATO]. Bunch of hypocrites.. thwart them; withdraw all subsidies and show them where they stand in reality.

THANK YOU! FINALLY someone sees it the way I do! Its the truth ...

As for Russia pushing these CIS countries around - USA (CIA, actually) paid around 50-70 million dollars "to BRING DEMOCRACY TO UKRAINE in 2004 elections" (LOL, how can you BUY democracy???)

Same with Georgia. These presidents have regularly met with Bush, CIA directors, they're playing the American game. The Americans OVERTHREW these regimes in their favour!

When BUSH travelled to Georgia a year or so ago Saakashvilli called him his brother, man!!! American MILITARY ADVISORS and WEAPONS, TRANSLATORS have been seen in Georgia ...

There's no denial in that, USA simply calls it a helpful gesture to bring democracy to Georgia.

quote:

Originally posted by St_Andrew On a smilar note...

Corruption is appalling in Russia. In 1990s when I lived in Sochi, Russia we joked about how police needs protection after gunmen chased police chief and his driver around the city, firing at him. No help came in for him. Eventually they got him to stop, and fired 3 rounds of AK-47 bullets in the driver and him, and wrecked the car.

But I never heard that on western news. All they care about is the Chechen war. We in Russia had bigger problems, with mafia mainly and how the government refuses to fight this cancer.

Oh, I also recommend reading about the actual dictator Saaaaakashvillu. He emigrated to USA in 1990s, got training and education there, came back later with money and American support and overthrew Shevargnadze (another dictator). He's been American puppet ever since ;-)

Metalgearsolid - I am sorry but my Sochi kicks your Cheboksari anyday, though I've been in that beautiful and well-off city in Russia (economic prosperity):

Sochi photos (many more at http://www.sochi.ru/info/foto.htm ), click around the photo gallery links:

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Originally posted by Magnetonium All wars involve acts of crimes, and yes the Russian soldiers committed crimes too. BUT so did Chechen fighters. WHat about Beslan, Nord-Ost, the suicide bombings, and apartment bombings in 1999? WHAT ABOUT THAT?

The suicide bombings are truly reprehensible but they are not even on the same scale as 80,000 dead civilians; "all wars involve war crimes" in no way absolves a party from being held accountable for crimes against humanity

quote:

Have you seen the recent developments in Chechnya? Grozny is getting rebuilt, new bridges and telephone lines, Russia declared amnesty for fighters in the mountains, many troops have been withdrawn and only internal police/MVD is left. Things are becoming quite peaceful. Stop living in the past and look AT THE CURRENT PICTURE.

This is great news, however i wonder if Russia will do an investigation into the many mass graves around Chechnya? I wonder if the relatives of civilians who have been tortured, killed, and dissapeared are happy with the current picture?

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Look at Iraq, and there's way worse things going on there and noone is talking about how USA should pull out of there, its perfectly fine. Oh, and Australia is supporting this INVASION too with troops!

Half the people on this forum have said that the USA should pull out of Iraq, especially after incidents like Abu Garib and Haditha. The US and other countries have committed war crimes in Iraq but a large percentage of the civilian death count has been caused by sectarian violence. Contrast this with Chechnya where the civilian death count is caused almost solely by the Russian military and death squads.

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And so you think USA didnt commit any war crimes in Iraq?

Yes they have, and i strongly disagree with my own country being involved in this war (it is possible to be patriotic and disagree with your countries actions you know )

ps. Criticising Russia does not mean i'm defending the US, i'm well aware of the suffering their foreign policy has caused

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium quote: Originally posted by Purple I support Russia dominating these smaller countries. All this long they helped people in these countries by giving them subsidized oil, gas, food, technology, bizness, employment etc.. and now since the inception of EU all these countries just want to do is join EU [& NATO]. Bunch of hypocrites.. thwart them; withdraw all subsidies and show them where they stand in reality. THANK YOU! FINALLY someone sees it the way I do! Its the truth ...

Sorry to say this man, but that's complete hypocrisy. You have no right to criticize the US with a double standard like that.

quote:

Originally posted by tathi it is possible to be patriotic and disagree with your countries actions you know

Actually, I think it's more accurate to say that a true patriot will be even more harshly critical of crimes carried out by his own country . Nationalism, on the other hand, is more along the lines of blind support for and obedience to the state.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z THANK YOU! FINALLY someone sees it the way I do! Its the truth ...

Sorry to say this man, but that's complete hypocrisy. You have no right to criticize the US with a double standard like that. [/QUOTE]

Here's a real life example - your friend really needed your help. You gave him money, economic support, and other help. Then while your friend is receiving all this help that YOU COULD'VE GAVE YOUR OWN FAMILY OR YOURSELF INSTEAD, this friend at the same time turns TO YOUR ENEMY for help and double-crosses you. What would you do?

These CIS countries are not friends. They're stabbing Russia right back, even though Russia helped financially and economically these countries for years since 1991. And what does Russia get for this now?

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