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Originally posted by venomX I agree with the misteries part, but remember fire was also a mistery for us once. Abductions have been widely disproven as far as i can tell, so it would just be wierd anomalies in art, and the "sightings". Maybe its some astrological phenomena we still dont understand? Why cant that also be a posibility? I mean imagine you were a Inuit, what would you have thought the first time you saw the northern lights!?

Yeah but were the northern lights that common all over the world?, how about people in other places that don't see them? Yeah fire was but that was a long time ago, people were using fire for thousands of years before these mythologies/stories were written. It wasn't that mysterious to them, only in the beginning. Abductions haven't been disproven, only some of them. The whole idea about people having these "waking dreams" doesn't explain many cases where people were abducted while driving, like the famous Betty & Barney Hill case in the 60s. Betty even described an alien showing her a star map, and she had no knowledge of astronomy, she wasn't even into it. This was discoved to be Zeta Riticuli in the late 70s. She also described a procedure that many other abducted women have faced....a needle put into their navel...a process a lot like amniosenticious, however you spell that.

Also, many people have had implants taken out, some where placed around nerves that would be used for communicating with the brain. Some people even had nerves from their fingers placed in their arms. These things have yet to be explained. Some skeptics claim that these people must have accidently cut themselves and had a piece of metal slip into their arms or legs, when in actuality, these pieces are put around nerves, there was no evidence of damage/inflammation that they would have caused if something like a piece of metal accidently got in there. There was no evidence of the person having been cut in the area where the implants were put. They could hardly even feel that that implant was in them, yet it showed up on X-Ray. This was coming from a doctor who took them out.

Some skeptics explanations for things i've heard over the years are much hoakier than the claims made by believers, researchers or people who've had experiences. I don't doubt that some abductions are false, some are waking dreams, but there's still plenty of convicing ones and an eerire pattern to many of them that cannot be explained yet. Plus others witnessing the same things, like family members, young children who've claimed to have seen monsters. And this was before the mother did anything about it, she did not talk to her child about it. There were a few cases like this I read about and seen. There's something going on.

But unfortunately, I have no respect for most of the believers in so many other areas, that it's hard to take this particular one seriously.

BTW, I heard alien weapons caused 9/11.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium You can't just consider the art to be based on their dreams and fantasy.

wow.

Spirit5,

Good post! Indeed when I started studying UFOs and Aliens I started like any other geek, investigating Roswell I was really intrigued and facinated, I went back to study the Aurora incident. But the truth was that when I study the aftermath of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War. This country acted and operated in a secretly matter. Both the US and the USSR as well all know hired Nazi scientist to boost their technological prog that later delevoped to a nuclear race war. NASA was born in the Cold War, but it wasnt active during Roswell. I truly wanted to believe that there was a cover up and when I investigated I did it in a manner to prove the govt had to do something with it. And I did not have an open mind. to make it short here lol all those claims of Roswell was US TECHNOLOGY no cover up the US just did not talk about it cause they wanted to keep it secret and not allow the investigators to get to the bottom of what the US was working on. THE IDEA OF ALIENS WAS USED BY THE USA TO DISTRACT ITS CITIZENS AND THE MEDIA to cover up the countrys experiment at the time.

If you study the Cold War you will get a good understanding of what Im talking about, in regards of secrecy. So yeah, Roswell and the notion of Aliens became famous because of Roswell, and was an idea used by the US to divert attention and not let our enemy(USSR) get to much info on what crashed through the US media.

X Files - Last episode of Season 2 and first 2 episodes of Season 3 should answer all!

But yeah, the Anasazi supposedly believed in them.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ X Files - Last episode of Season 2 and first 2 episodes of Season 3 should answer all! But yeah, the Anasazi supposedly believed in them.

I've read about the Anasazi and read no such thing. As for ancient people believing they came from the heaven, its a common belief i do not think its noteworthy. People back then were very impressionable and no doubt the sky and celestial ocurrances would have been extremely noteworthy in their minds and hence all the mysticism around them. I find that to be a more believable theory than beings from another galaxy giving them special knowledge which conveniently disappeared so we couldnt find it

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Originally posted by Groundhog Boy BTW, I heard alien weapons caused 9/11.

You gotta be kidding me.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You gotta be kidding me.

no way, i think he's definitely onto something

BTW, if anyone is seriously interested in this subject, there's a book I read a long time ago (back in highschool) which was pretty interesting. The guy compares various scriptures, ancient ruins etc to modern technology. I think this book came out in the early 1900s and the guy was called a heretic/anti-christ and all sorts of stuff. It certainly wasn't well recieved back in the day:

Chariots of the Gods

And for the record, no I don't believe in Aliens.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z BTW, if anyone is seriously interested in this subject, there's a book I read a long time ago (back in highschool) which was pretty interesting. The guy compares various scriptures, ancient ruins etc to modern technology. I think this book came out in the early 1900s and the guy was called a heretic/anti-christ and all sorts of stuff. It certainly wasn't well recieved back in the day: Chariots of the Gods And for the record, no I don't believe in Aliens.

I've seen that a couple of times on TV; interesting documentary for sure.

Shao, you're just hittin' the documentaries perfectly

Oh wow...someone DID upload it!
[[ LINK REMOVED ]]

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r I've seen that a couple of times on TV; interesting documentary for sure. Shao, you're just hittin' the documentaries perfectly Oh wow...someone DID upload it! [[ LINK REMOVED ]]

Hehe. Thanks . Yeah, I've watched that at a buddies place some time ago. It's certainly very interesting. Although, I don't see why it has to be "aliens" who're responsible for ancient civilizations possibly possesing technology similar to some of what we have/are working on today. It's certainly an interesting question to ponder over though. Not aliens, but how the fuck they built all those marvelous structures and moved big ass boulders weighing tons and tons hundreds and thousands of years ago that is still incredibly hard to do with our current technology, and at the very least required alot of resources.

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Originally posted by LatinLover Spirit5, Good post! Indeed when I started studying UFOs and Aliens I started like any other geek, investigating Roswell I was really intrigued and facinated, I went back to study the Aurora incident. But the truth was that when I study the aftermath of WWII and the beginning of the Cold War. This country acted and operated in a secretly matter. Both the US and the USSR as well all know hired Nazi scientist to boost their technological prog that later delevoped to a nuclear race war. NASA was born in the Cold War, but it wasnt active during Roswell. I truly wanted to believe that there was a cover up and when I investigated I did it in a manner to prove the govt had to do something with it. And I did not have an open mind. to make it short here lol all those claims of Roswell was US TECHNOLOGY no cover up the US just did not talk about it cause they wanted to keep it secret and not allow the investigators to get to the bottom of what the US was working on. THE IDEA OF ALIENS WAS USED BY THE USA TO DISTRACT ITS CITIZENS AND THE MEDIA to cover up the countrys experiment at the time. If you study the Cold War you will get a good understanding of what Im talking about, in regards of secrecy. So yeah, Roswell and the notion of Aliens became famous because of Roswell, and was an idea used by the US to divert attention and not let our enemy(USSR) get to much info on what crashed through the US media.

Yeah but what about sightings before the 1940s? there were plenty of reports of UFOs or "Airships" in the late 19th Century and of course the Aurora incident that you mentioned..in Texas. I mean I think the government is hiding something, but the technology found during Rosewell was way beyond what we have even now. I mean unless the government is hiding some truly advanced technology, i.e. metallic or tin-foil like material that won't bend or be destroyed with mysterious symbols on it, as witnessed by Jesse Marcell and his son during Rosewell, then what is it?

Another crash, in 1965 in Keksberg, Pennsylvania, the material displayed similar characteristics with very similar symbols written on it. Something occured that cannot be explained, and there were plenty of eye witnesses. Even take the case, which wasn't a crash, but was damn convicing, in the early 80s in England at Bent Waters Airbase. Many witnesses, including non-military people..i.e civilians, had seen a craft that was clearly more advanced than anything they had seen.

Now I do believe that the government has something to do with "some" of the UFO sightings. They "could" (not saying they did) have had something to do with the 1980s and and 90s, with the triangular craft that was seen in Belgium in 89, and shortly after that in Indiana and Illinois by a few police officers and civilians. This was also the same object reported at Bent Waters by some military officers and police. This could have well been an experimental craft MADE with ALIEN technology. If it's not alien technology, then they obviously have some pretty advanced technology, and if they did have this technology and it wasn't alien, then why the coverup?? They didn't even tell the officers who saw it what it was. If it was an experimental craft, you'd think they would have at least told them and cleared it up. Instead they threatened them into secrecy, until they came out with it a few years later when they weren't in the military any longer. There's something they aren't telling us, and don't tell me you believe their explanation in 1997 about the Project Mogul with the balloons tested in 1947 and then later dummies tested in the early 50s, with the air force saying that the people got the dates mixed up..gimme a break, quite clearly with all of these explanations there was a coverup, and why??

I mean just like when people..skeptics say "well if aliens are real, then why don't they just reveal themselves, land on the Whitehouse lawn?" the same with our military having advanced technology like seen at Rosewell or with the UFOs seen and photographed since the late 40s...would you think if the military had some pretty advanced technology...they would want us to know about it? Especially if police officers are seeing it, not knowing what it is, or in Belgium being photographed and available all over the internet (I have the picture, I can post it) and the same looking object at Bent Waters?? all saw a triangular craft of quite advanced technology. Technology, at a very advanced level of technology that what we have now. Silent aircraft, except for a slight hum, that can slow down and just hover and then take off at speeds way beyond anything we have here....in a manner of seconds.

I mean it's quite clear that they have this technology, look at videos taken from Area:51 and all of the secrecy still going on to this day with it. Thats some pretty advanced stuff they have there. Where did they get all of this advanced technology from? I don't doubt the power of the human spirit to do this, but all of a sudden. This stuff could be amazing for the military and for space travel at the high level of speed and manouveribility these things possess.

Again, this "might" be an advanced, experimental military aircraft, but the technology is very advanced and the military have not disclosed about it. It has also flown over residential areas before, like with the police officers in Indiana and Illinois in the early 90s who spotted it. My thing with the experimental idea however, is if it was a top secret aircraft, why fly it over places where people can see it? Another thing...abductees have reported very similar objects. And why the secrecy still with Area:51?

If it's just an experimental aircraft place with human technology, then why still the cover up about it? And wouldn't you think this technology that people had seen should have just stayed there, instead of flying where everyone can see it? Well those who are out late at night...no secrecy about that. Area:51 and the Defense Department were even sued in the late 90s after some workers at Area:51 became ill, and some died, after exposure to some unknown chemicals, could have been nuclear fall out. Even when they were being sued, they still didn't or wouldn't reveal what they were exactly doing there and what got these men sick or what killed them. A lot of secrecy, not a lot of answers.

One more thing...this aircraft has even been reported in Israel and in Montreal, Quebec. Why would they fly it over Israel or large cities like Montreal, Quebec if it was top secret? seems awfully fishy to me...so I don't know about the experimental aircraft theory, but if aliens aren't real (which I think they are) then the military is doing some pretty stupid things...defeats the purpose of TOP SECRET.

I doubt we'd ever know about it. Not even even the President has 'Top Secret' clearance.


With regard to the Anasazi, noone really knows for sure why they disappeared. There are several theories, but nothing definite. Kinda eerie really.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ I doubt we'd ever know about it. Not even even the President has 'Top Secret' clearance. With regard to the Anasazi, noone really knows for sure why they disappeared. There are several theories, but nothing definite. Kinda eerie really.

Climate Change + Irresponsible Use of Resources is the one i find more believable. But yeah, it is eerie how fast they went from their peak to dissappearing almost completely.

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Again, this "might" be an advanced, experimental military aircraft, but the technology is very advanced and the military have not disclosed about it. It has also flown over residential areas before, like with the police officers in Indiana and Illinois in the early 90s who spotted it. My thing with the experimental idea however, is if it was a top secret aircraft, why fly it over places where people can see it? Another thing...abductees have reported very similar objects. And why the secrecy still with Area:51? If it's just an experimental aircraft place with human technology, then why still the cover up about it? And wouldn't you think this technology that people had seen should have just stayed there, instead of flying where everyone can see it? Well those who are out late at night...no secrecy about that. Area:51 and the Defense Department were even sued in the late 90s after some workers at Area:51 became ill, and some died, after exposure to some unknown chemicals, could have been nuclear fall out. Even when they were being sued, they still didn't or wouldn't reveal what they were exactly doing there and what got these men sick or what killed them. A lot of secrecy, not a lot of answers. One more thing...this aircraft has even been reported in Israel and in Montreal, Quebec. Why would they fly it over Israel or large cities like Montreal, Quebec if it was top secret? seems awfully fishy to me...so I don't know about the experimental aircraft theory, but if aliens aren't real (which I think they are) then the military is doing some pretty stupid things...defeats the purpose of TOP SECRET.

The TOP SECRET planes look like this











Too answer what you said. It is simple. While at the same time they are intentionally revealing thier planes they are also seeing what the reaction of the masses will be.

Nothing Alien.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Too answer what you said. It is simple. While at the same time they are intentionally revealing thier planes they are also seeing what the reaction of the masses will be. Nothing Alien.

Why the cover up then? If it's just humans using human technology, why not let people know that, instead they are hush, hush and are very strict about anyone entering Area:51 unauthorized. People see craft over Area:51 of very advanced technology, no different than the technology people have seen with UFOs all over the world. Even the Bent Waters case I mentioned, they wouldn't even tell their own officers that saw something over the base. It was triangular shaped and beyond anything they had seen. If it was just human technology, why did they not just tell the officers what it was? That would have made it much less a mystery to the officers who had seen it. They still don't know what they saw....even to this day. Why would they cover up, even to this day, technology like this if it was made by humans? That would dispel a lot of the UFOs sightings, but no, they still cover it up. Doesn't make sense to me...

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Originally posted by Spirit5 Why the cover up then? If it's just humans using human technology, why not let people know that, instead they are hush, hush and are very strict about anyone entering Area:51 unauthorized. People see craft over Area:51 of very advanced technology, no different than the technology people have seen with UFOs all over the world. Even the Bent Waters case I mentioned, they wouldn't even tell their own officers that saw something over the base. It was triangular shaped and beyond anything they had seen. If it was just human technology, why did they not just tell the officers what it was? That would have made it much less a mystery to the officers who had seen it. They still don't know what they saw....even to this day. Why would they cover up, even to this day, technology like this if it was made by humans? That would dispel a lot of the UFOs sightings, but no, they still cover it up. Doesn't make sense to me...

Same reason why they haven't released anything on the JFK assasination. They want people to continue speculating while they contine with something more advanced. Keeping people busy with something that is really irrelevant. Ok maybe not that All irrelevant.

Think about this. Is the real government a bunch of aliens? Or are we at a secret war with an alien race?

What makes us even think we are special enough for an alien visit? Humans have continued to be at war with each other. Maybe if for a change we stopped killing each other and rather we started working together like a real species would. Than we might be visited by an alien race.

Another thing referring to aliens. Yes, there is complex life out there and no it isn't just two races in this galaxy it must be hundreds and hundreds each with their own tech and gods and social way of life.

Maybe the real advanced ones realise that it is pathetic to try and convert a more numerous species or if they are no threat than why bother to communicate.

Did the Europeans want to share the world with the indigenous people? No, what they did was prepare for slaughter and they did just that. They nearly wiped out the indigenous people. If there were aliens here than Im afraid many of us wouldn't be communicating with each other the way we do now.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Same reason why they haven't released anything on the JFK assasination. They want people to continue speculating while they contine with something more advanced. Keeping people busy with something that is really irrelevant. Ok maybe not that All irrelevant. Think about this. Is the real government a bunch of aliens? Or are we at a secret war with an alien race? What makes us even think we are special enough for an alien visit? Humans have continued to be at war with each other. Maybe if for a change we stopped killing each other and rather we started working together like a real species would. Than we might be visited by an alien race. Another thing referring to aliens. Yes, there is complex life out there and no it isn't just two races in this galaxy it must be hundreds and hundreds each with their own tech and gods and social way of life. Maybe the real advanced ones realise that it is pathetic to try and convert a more numerous species or if they are no threat than why bother to communicate. Did the Europeans want to share the world with the indigenous people? No, what they did was prepare for slaughter and they did just that. They nearly wiped out the indigenous people. If there were aliens here than Im afraid many of us wouldn't be communicating with each other the way we do now.

Well where did they get the technology from? I mean I don't doubt that humans can do these things, but some of the objects seen are SO advanced that it is as if they all of a sudden have technology from what the 24th Century...like Star Trek. I doubt that the government would come out and say they have this technology because then people would think just like me "where the hell did you get these from?", rather it is possible they have been flying these things around for a while, making it look like they were aliens visiting.

But it is highly possible, in my view at least, that this technology is alien, and that the military has it. I mean how else can you explain the technology seen at Area:51 or Bent Waters, or over Indiana and Illionois, Belgium, Montreal..etc. All of these places where this triangular craft has been reported. It's obviously quite a bit more advanced than the stealth bomber. And we are lead to believe that the stealth is one of the more advanced aircraft out, though it's been around since the 80s.

We could be at a secret war with an alien race, and also working with an alien race too. Hence why the build up and secrecy at Area:51, they are preparing us for something. David Jacobs, an associate professor of history at Temple University in Pennsylvania. He's been doing research on UFOs and abductions since the 70s. His book "The Threat" is pretty convicing. Many cases of alien abductions he's done, which all have pretty much the same elements, he's been seeing more and more negative aspects of it.

Now this is another thing that just can't be explained outright as either delusional or just lies. Clearly, if you just read it, you'll see that something is happening and it's not peace loving aliens who want nothing more than our best interests. This could be one of the reasons why these beings don't just come out and say they are here. Actually, i'm one to believe they've been here, for thousands if not millions of years, in mountains, oceans, caves etc.

If you came to a planet, built bases, would you reveal yourself? that's what I said in an earlier post. These aren't all aliens per say, they are living amongst us in the oceans, deep down where we haven't explored...the triangle areas in the Pacific and Atlantic. They didn't think we were a threat until we started to build and test nuclear bombs, hence why the sightings increased in the 40s and why a lot of UFOs have been reported over military bases. The military base at Bent Waters held some nuclear weapons as well. Before then, they were pretty hidden.

With the plethora of camera's, comparatively cheap digital camcorders, still cameras and cell-phone cameras I'm suprised that if these things really where all that an unusual occourance, then we should have more footage of them.
Used to be fairly common to have at least one or two grainy, crappy images of UFO's a year from around the world but it just doesnt seem too happen that much considering the amount of image recording which can be pointed and snapped up.
So I dunno.
Statistically theres a good chance of other life in the universe, as to it being more technologically advanced or intelligent then thats simply conjecture.

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Originally posted by Lilith Used to be fairly common to have at least one or two grainy, crappy images of UFO's a year from around the world but it just doesnt seem too happen that much considering the amount of image recording which can be pointed and snapped up.

Now that I think of it, many images of UFOs I admit aren't that convincing. But the one I put up, is by far one of the best images and it definitely is a UFO. Doesn't mean it's alien, it could be, it could just be an experimental craft. I am still baffled though how the government got this technology and even why they didn't even tell those officers at Bentwaters Airbase in the 80s about it after they witnessed it...why they even a few years ago on a special on the Sci-Fi Channel with Bryant Gumbel, were still perplexed.

quote:

Originally posted by Spirit5 Well where did they get the technology from? I mean I don't doubt that humans can do these things, but some of the objects seen are SO advanced that it is as if they all of a sudden have technology from what the 24th Century...like Star Trek. I doubt that the government would come out and say they have this technology because then people would think just like me "where the hell did you get these from?", rather it is possible they have been flying these things around for a while, making it look like they were aliens visiting. But it is highly possible, in my view at least, that this technology is alien, and that the military has it. I mean how else can you explain the technology seen at Area:51 or Bent Waters, or over Indiana and Illionois, Belgium, Montreal..etc. All of these places where this triangular craft has been reported. It's obviously quite a bit more advanced than the stealth bomber. And we are lead to believe that the stealth is one of the more advanced aircraft out, though it's been around since the 80s. We could be at a secret war with an alien race, and also working with an alien race too. Hence why the build up and secrecy at Area:51, they are preparing us for something. David Jacobs, an associate professor of history at Temple University in Pennsylvania. He's been doing research on UFOs and abductions since the 70s. His book "The Threat" is pretty convicing. Many cases of alien abductions he's done, which all have pretty much the same elements, he's been seeing more and more negative aspects of it. Now this is another thing that just can't be explained outright as either delusional or just lies. Clearly, if you just read it, you'll see that something is happening and it's not peace loving aliens who want nothing more than our best interests. This could be one of the reasons why these beings don't just come out and say they are here. Actually, i'm one to believe they've been here, for thousands if not millions of years, in mountains, oceans, caves etc. If you came to a planet, built bases, would you reveal yourself? that's what I said in an earlier post. These aren't all aliens per say, they are living amongst us in the oceans, deep down where we haven't explored...the triangle areas in the Pacific and Atlantic. They didn't think we were a threat until we started to build and test nuclear bombs, hence why the sightings increased in the 40s and why a lot of UFOs have been reported over military bases. The military base at Bent Waters held some nuclear weapons as well. Before then, they were pretty hidden.

You know what? I saw a similar aircraft of the one you posted. Over two years ago. My sister and I saw it and she was the one telling me it is probably a stealth bomber. But the thing about it was that it was moving slow in the air and there was no sound either. Had the lights where that picture shows them to be. I swear if that was a UFO than Im going to be very disappointed. I should have taken pictures.

Anyways. You are just spilling regurchated information. "they didn't think we were a threat until we started to build and test nuclear bombs"? Jesus, you watch the history channel believing that the information you are getting is accurate and not just said for entertainment.

Has it occured to you that the Gov has a mind control drug that can alter a person's reality for a short period of time? During this period of time they can tell the person what is happening and it will seem like a near reality. Did you also know that Did you also know that people who were "abducted" all wore the same type of watches? Where you can stop time simply by electricuting the base of the watch? they didn't make up the stories, most at least, the stories were made up. By commanding generals in order to see how effective these drugs were(don't ask how I know).

How come out of all the people in the world the only people that have been abducted are americans?

Wake UP! The gov is behind all these "abductees" stories. And the stories has been repeated over and over again. That if these stories were true why would the Gov let it out? The gov at all cost wouldl try to prevent something like this leaking out. People haven't been abducted by "aliens". They don't exist, not here or haven't been here.

"I doubt humans can do these type of things"? How can you say something like that. Humans have learned how to build refineries just so they can make the energy possible for our cars, homes. Humans have the possibility of doing this. The only thing you are thinking about is that EVERYONE is a moron. Was Einstein a moron? Is Carl Sagan a moron or Issac Newton or Marie Curie or Neil Degrasse or my mother? A team of 5 intelligent human scientists can accomplish more than what a billion business men can accomplish in building some thing hi tech.

quote:

X Files 2x25 - The Anasazi Mulder: "I don't understand." Albert Hosteen: "There was a tribe of Indians who lived here more than 600 years ago. Their name was Anasazi, it means 'the ancient aliens'. No evidence of their fate exists. Historians say they disappeared without a trace. They say that because they will not sacrifice themselves to the truth." Mulder: "And what is the truth?" Albert Hosteen: "Nothing disappears without a trace." Mulder: "You think they were abducted?" Albert Hosteen: "By visitors who come here still." Mulder: "What's buried out there?" Albert Hosteen: "Lies. You will see for yourself.

quote:

Originally posted by venomX Climate Change + Irresponsible Use of Resources is the one i find more believable. But yeah, it is eerie how fast they went from their peak to dissappearing almost completely.

Some suggest they merely intergrated into other tribes. But as Albert Hosteen mentioned in X-Files - nothing vanishes without a trace


This isn't the exact link I wanted, but it's the same interview, just typed differently...

Interview with an ex-Area 51 employee

Makes extremely interesting reading

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid How come out of all the people in the world the only people that have been abducted are americans?

Not true. In the 1950s, before the Betty & Barney Hill case, a farmer named Antonio Villas Boas was abducted, in I believe Brazil. There are other cases of people being abducted in Brazil, or come in contact with Aliens. Why would our government have gone to Brazil in the middle of the night in the 1950s to abduct a lonely Brazillian farmer? Sounds absurd..more absurd than the claims Villas Boas made. People have been reported abducted in the UK, Canada and Israel as well. Sure there are more people being abducted in the U.S. than other countries, but there are still cases other than the U.S. One of the reasons why their is more is because of the government's involved with them. Yes I do watch the History Channel, and I realize that some things aren't always true, but if you watch "UFO Files" on Monday evening...every other Monday usually, many of the stuff they cover is pretty convincing.

I don't believe this conspiracy theory of yours that it's the government doing all of these abductions and such. They've been reported..similar things, many years before our government was invovled. There were many cases in the past of people encountering "goblins", "angels" or "demons" at night, and even the Virgin Mary...she was approached at night in the bible by the Angel Gabriel, and she was later impregnanted. She was a Virgin too, so if you believe that it happened, then she never really had intercourse with Joseph or anyone. Seems an awful lot like what happens with abducted women, they don't go through intercourse thus realy making them "virgins".

Just another thought..it's all speculative. But I just find it hard to believe the government would do these things. Sure there's a lot of things our government has done in the past and continues to do that is very questionable, but I doubt that this is one of them. The questionable thing, is if abductions are true (and I do thing at least 40-50% are) then why would our government allow it to happen? that shocks me just as much as the government doing these "mind altering things".

I don't trust our government completely, but I don't buy into those types of conspiracy theories, just like the 9/11 conspiracy theories about the planes being remotely controlled. I might believe in aliens, but I don't blame everything on the government/military, and I don't believe in every UFO or alien abduction case, I just think there's enough evidence (mind you not extremely hard evidence, but evidence nonetheless) to warrant further examination. The explanations like yours, and skeptics who believe that these people are just suffering from delusions or "waking dreams" are more hoakey than what is presented by some of the believers. Surely there are some claims I just don't believe, such as those by Whitley Strieber..he was just out to make money..a science fiction author. But Betty and Barney Hill, and Villas Boas, are among the most credible.

Again i'm just speculating...just as you are. We both have no proof either way. Maybe the government does have a hand with these abductions, but I don't think it's the government working alone, flying around in these triangular, cigar shaped or boomerang shaped craft. I think i'm more inclinded to believe the triangular, cigar or boomerang shaped sightings though, because the guy that made these UFO sightings big, Kenneth Arnold, never really saw flying saucers but boomerang shaped craft. The "flying saucer" was coined by journalists, because Kenneth Arnold described them like "saucers skipping over water". I question "flying saucer" sightings, but not UFO sightings of cigar and triangular shaped craft...even spotted all over the world by pilots. Don't know why our government would indanger the lives of our people and pilots and people in other countries...by flying in their flight path that many UFOs have reported to have done. This was testimony from pilots who have seen this, well respected ones. I doubt they were all lying or the stories were made up for the program(s) i've seen on it and books i've read.

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