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quote:

Originally posted by Wicked Neo Thread title updated:

oh that is so wicked. Nice title neo.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Exactly. How come if Iraqis are so evil, its so many of them that die, and so few of the invaders? erdega, how about stopping being so one-sided and showing some video clips of American brutality. But I dont think you believe in that - how American bombs and shootings have killed so many civilians. I've seen these videos on the internet, on DVD. These videos show invading forces committing crimes against ordinary civilians. Basically you are justifying the American and British campaign in the Iraq, I'd say. Americans and British brandish very advanced and sophisticated weapons and technology. The resistance uses very harsh and "primitive" strategies because they're the ones that have any impact on the occupational forces. The resistance's more civilized and more humane strategies of fighting have been long exhausted. Now they noticed that suicide attacks, bombings, abductions and video tape beheadings/executions, intimidation and other attacks are the only way to cause damage to their enemy. I am not saying that it justifies what they do - but what else will you do in their situation? These people have lost many relatives, lost jobs, homes, lives, been humiliated and degregaded by the invading forces. Its a war, a guerilla campaign. Guerilla campaigns are nearly always savage and brutal. Does the resistance have the advanced communications networks, tanks, scuds, airplanes and other stuff to engage in a fair combat with the enemy?

there is not much stuff from the american side . You can find most of the edited footage on youtube

http://www.flurl.com/item/Iraq500lb_bomb_blast_u_175377
http://www.flurl.com/item/happy_trigger_u_192786
http://www.flurl.com/item/Here_we_go_u_192787

What was the thread title before?

I would also like to thank Iraqies who have put brave front in front of US troops and a good fight/a fitting blow to them. If it wasnt for the courage and determination Iraqies have shown to oppose this US agression... US would have prolly laid its greedy hands on Syria, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran, Moroco?, and god knows what not by now.

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Originally posted by Purple What was the thread title before? I would also like to thank Iraqies who have put brave front in front of US troops and a good fight/a fitting blow to them. If it wasnt for the courage and determination Iraqies have shown to oppose this US agression... US would have prolly laid its greedy hands on Syria, Kuwait, Lebanon, Iran, Moroco?, and god knows what not by now.

Lets see who you come running too when the wonderful people of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Pakastan team up against India. Unless thats whay you want, cause didn't the same types of people kill and murder hundreds of innocent Indian people just a few months ago??

You ignroance astounds me....

p.s. I lost a close blood relative to an IED last year, he was due to come back in less than 1week. Went out to distrubute water and food to a village south of Bagdad. A "freedom" fighter as you call it, planted a IED in side of an empty water jug, the bomb went off with woman and children getting the worst of it. So Yeah Purple, Hats off to them there.

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Originally posted by LazFX Lets see who you come running too when the wonderful people of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Pakastan team up against India. Unless thats whay you want, cause didn't the same types of people kill and murder hundreds of innocent Indian people just a few months ago?? You ignroance astounds me.... p.s. I lost a close blood relative to an IED last year, he was due to come back in less than 1week. Went out to distrubute water and food to a village south of Bagdad. A "freedom" fighter as you call it, planted a IED in side of an empty water jug, the bomb went off with woman and children getting the worst of it. So Yeah Purple, Hats off to them there.

If there would have been no American invasion in the first place, and maybe an assassination on Hussein was done instead, we could have avoided the 650,000 Iraqi civilian deaths ...

Or if it wasnt for American-provided weapons to Hussein in 1980s like mustard gas and munitions, there would probably not have been the tens of thousands of deaths at the hands of Hussein. USA armed Iraq to commit these crimes, and silently let them happen, without helping the resistance ... but in Kosovo they did!

USA overthrew dozens of dictators around the world in the last 50 years without invasion. But because Iraq had large oilfields that needed to be secured, USA had to invade the country to secure its interests. Rest assured, the Iraqi oil is in firm US hands now, just like in Saudi Arabia.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium If there would have been no American invasion in the first place, and maybe an assassination on Hussein was done instead, we could have avoided the 650,000 Iraqi civilian deaths ...

Perhaps an assassination would've helped, though it still would've created a power vacuum like we have now and it doesn't address what would've happened to Uday and Quasai or any of the other jokers in the deck (pardon the pun)

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Or if it wasnt for American-provided weapons to Hussein in 1980s like mustard gas and munitions, there would probably not have been the tens of thousands of deaths at the hands of Hussein. USA armed Iraq to commit these crimes, and silently let them happen, without helping the resistance ... but in Kosovo they did!

Maybe, but you can blame a different administration for that. Also, you'd have a stronger case against the U.S. if you could conclusively say that the U.S. supported or instructed malevolent use of said weapons. As we see in many places today that want the U.S. to negotiate with them--aid money is often spent on weapons, not on helping the poverty stricken citizens (N. Korea). Or oftentimes, military weaponry is demanded. The U.S. gets its back against the wall where they're damned if they do and damned if they don't. I'm not intimately knowledgeable about the issues in the 80's with weapons to Iraq, but I can categorically say that nobody ever told Saddam that it would be OK to turn around and use those weapons against his own people.

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USA overthrew dozens of dictators around the world in the last 50 years without invasion. But because Iraq had large oilfields that needed to be secured, USA had to invade the country to secure its interests. Rest assured, the Iraqi oil is in firm US hands now, just like in Saudi Arabia.

Hmmm. Are you saying the war is about oil or are you saying that because economic livlihood is involved that therefore the U.S. invaded when they otherwise wouldn't have? Because the war surely hasn't made oil any cheaper or more accessible. I don't buy the "War for oil" argument, but in the same breath you could also argue that because so much was at stake economically that an invasion was a better plan. In any event, at least there are gains from this war vs. going into a place like the Sudan and sacrificing your troops for zero gain. Makes a lot more sense to me to get something out of war as opposed to nothing but a good case of the feelies.

Btw, you know there have been large advancements in coal-to-liquids technology that makes it much more viable to convert coal to crude distillates. The U.S. has more coal than it knows what to do with. Should we invade ourselves? Or maybe Canada so we can take over their tar sands. God knows it's a lot easier than sending 150,000 people halfway around the world just to secure a few (already functioning) oil pipelines.

IED attack on far away Humvee, Khan Zari [Sourah Al Ashrayn battalion]

3.rm, 3.4 MB, 1:02 TRT
http://www.sendspace.com/file/78t5pn
http://www.badongo.net/file/1552671
http://depositfiles.com/files/319055
http://www.zshare.net/download/3-rar-u14.html
http://www.verzend.be/v/8501893/2_1_3.rar.html




IED attack "destroys American truck on the highway west of Ramadi"
[Mahmoud battalion]

Untitled.rm, 980 KB, 0:16 TRT
http://www.sendspace.com/file/50nnfk
http://www.badongo.net/file/1552597





IED attack on Humvee, Alstratiji (Bridge Horon) [Abdel Aziz Rantisi battalion]

lsjhfgu.rm, 1.6 MB, 0:28 TRT
http://www.sendspace.com/file/xlsr0z
http://www.badongo.net/file/1552695




The new compilation - American Hell 2

http://www.hanein.org/images/iraq/new/fhd1.wmv

American Videos


Roadside attack in Iraq Oct. 14, 2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inqsjywJf-w

Air Strike near Ramadi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=inqsjywJf-w

quote:

Originally posted by LazFX Lets see who you come running too when the wonderful people of Iraq, Syria, Iran and Pakastan team up against India. Unless thats whay you want, cause didn't the same types of people kill and murder hundreds of innocent Indian people just a few months ago?? You ignroance astounds me.... p.s. I lost a close blood relative to an IED last year, he was due to come back in less than 1week. Went out to distrubute water and food to a village south of Bagdad. A "freedom" fighter as you call it, planted a IED in side of an empty water jug, the bomb went off with woman and children getting the worst of it. So Yeah Purple, Hats off to them there.

Its a war and Iraqies are desperate; they dont have any means to protect women and children who get caught up in cross fire.. Iraqies dont deliberately kill women and children; they dont raid houses and hunt them down and kill women and children.. watch some some vedios posted in this thread, they targget US troops and if someone gets caught up; he/she is simply at wrong place at wrong time. Maybe if US didnt invaded Iraq at first place; it woudnt have been a wrong place and wrong time itself. Who knows that Iraqies regret these deaths of innocent people caught up in all this as much as you/me or anyone else does.. but US media loves to highlight how an attack by Iraqi on US troops killed so many women and children today.. but they wont show how an attack by US troops on innocent Iraqies killed so many other innocent women and children today.

9/11 and Iraq? what is it? Why is US in Iraq? Who fucked up everything for everyone in Iraq and everyone else in this whole world today? US or Iraqies or a bunch of 11 guys on a plane to WTC? A private/secluded terrorist incident on WTC and US took it to multi state-level full blown war and engaged/dragged the whole world/entire race into its own war.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ It was torn apart the minute those soldiers were irresponsbly placed on the desert sand. Period. Iraq was more stable under Hussein - FACT.

They were talking about this during DESERT STORM and what should happen if Saddam was ousted; it's unlikely they didn't account for it.

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If Bush told you that Sudan needed liberating, you'd believe him. If he told you that Sudan had WMD's, you'd believe him. And I bet bottom dollar that you genuinely believed Iraq had WMDs in the first instance.

Who didn't?
Let's not use a short memory as an excuse for an argument that everyone voted YES to shall we? It's just a little too convenient and insulting.
It's easy to jump ship when things aren't going your way but the reality still is what it is and we have to make it work; there's no option.
We can argue the symantecs and reasonings of WHY all we went, but that doesn't change the current situation for what it is.

quote:

Why don't you just learn to think for yourself, and not swallow everything Bush's speechwriters tell you, instead of wallowing in your ignorance.

Don't worry I won't, but don't get caught up looking 180 at your own ass when there's still a problem in front of you either.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Its a war and Iraqies are desperate; they dont have any means to protect women and children who get caught up in cross fire.. Iraqies dont deliberately kill women and children; they dont raid houses and hunt them down and kill women and children.. watch some some vedios posted in this thread, they targget US troops and if someone gets caught up; he/she is simply at wrong place at wrong time. Maybe if US didnt invaded Iraq at first place; it woudnt have been a wrong place and wrong time itself. Who knows that Iraqies regret these deaths of innocent people caught up in all this as much as you/me or anyone else does.. but US media loves to highlight how an attack by Iraqi on US troops killed so many women and children today.. but they wont show how an attack by US troops on innocent Iraqies killed so many other innocent women and children today.

I personally think the Iraq war has shown it'self to be a mistake. But I think you are totally misjudging the nature of whats happening over there. It isn't just West vs. Iraqi a huge amount of the violence is Iraqi on Iraqi your argument is unbeliveably one sided.

I would say the American and British have made mistakes where innocents have died but that is totally different to the Iraqi on Iraqi violence we see.

To be totally honest all the mentions of there only being two sides.

The low tech beating the "showy high tech".

The huge list of VIOLENCE being pedled in this thread is unbelivable. Why the hell would you have 10 gigs of people being killed?

Note there was a video of an Apache killing people shown on this site and I condemded it too. But this is like a vault of some nut case with a huge inferiority complex seeing the big bad nasty man who he secretly wants to be getting killed.

You can say all the "war is war" you like the fact of the matter is that a soliders job is not to die only to protect.

Fact of the matter is you are seeing the last moments of a human life, someone who has a father, mother wife/husband maybe children. This is the mechanism by which wars become more and more personal and irational. Personal hurt leads to hate, irational hate.

If the allied forces left Iraq right now the place would desend into a hole, FACT. Regardless of your thoughts on the war.

This has to be one of the lowest quality threads of discussion (or lack of..) I've ever seen.

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Originally posted by Dervish If the allied forces left Iraq right now the place would desend into a hole, FACT. Regardless of your thoughts on the war. This has to be one of the lowest quality threads of discussion (or lack of..) I've ever seen.

Its funny how everyone keeps mentioning this ... but what about the current situation? It seems like at this pace the situation in Iraq is gooing into a hole anyhow ... Its actually more likely that the violence will subside quicker if Americans withdrew. After Sunnies and Shiites fight out and find a way to settle their differences, which is in progress, things will be better. American military presence will only escalate the situation, either you choose to accept it or not. Iraqis have enough oil to solve their economic problems. Its in American hands to grant Iraq independence and self-determmination.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Who didn't? Let's not use a short memory as an excuse for an argument that everyone voted YES to shall we? It's just a little too convenient and insulting. It's easy to jump ship when things aren't going your way but the reality still is what it is and we have to make it work; there's no option.

I didn't believe it for a second, nor did the millions protesting worldwide, nor did the UN, and certainly influential people in our government didn't. It was based on a dossier by a University student who herself claimed that Iraq didn't have WMDs.

I trusted Bush as far as I could throw him, and as such, did not believe him when he told me that Iraq had WMDs.

If it hadn't been for Blair, Bush would've have gone in a darn sight sooner. But either way, they're int his quagmire, and it's going to be a few days before this one gets sorted.

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r don't get caught up looking 180 at your own ass when there's still a problem in front of you either.

k.

quote:

Originally posted by Purple Its a war and Iraqies are desperate; they dont have any means to protect women and children who get caught up in cross fire.. Iraqies dont deliberately kill women and children; they dont raid houses and hunt them down and kill women and children.. watch some some vedios posted in this thread, they targget US troops and if someone gets caught up; he/she is simply at wrong place at wrong time. Maybe if US didnt invaded Iraq at first place; it woudnt have been a wrong place and wrong time itself. Who knows that Iraqies regret these deaths of innocent people caught up in all this as much as you/me or anyone else does.. but US media loves to highlight how an attack by Iraqi on US troops killed so many women and children today.. but they wont show how an attack by US troops on innocent Iraqies killed so many other innocent women and children today. .

I'm beginning to think your namesake is a reflection of that gash you must have sustained...

Do you really think that all Iraqis are united or something??
That Iraqis wouldn't kill Iraqis?
Hell, Saddam and his ilk were doing that uncontested and apparently the place was, "Under Control" before the States arrived (or that's the argument that we're supposed to believe from some here )

The propaganda that's being posted here (and it IS propaganda) is doing exactly what it's supposed to be doing, sucking moral wind out of the Western sails.
War is never pretty and yes there's two side to a battle, however, that being said, the question still remains on why someone with the freedom and liberty to post such tripe would post against the side that gave them that freedom and liberty to start with?
You could decry, "Freedom of Speech" sure, I'd just call it cynical.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Hell, Saddam and his ilk were doing that uncontested and apparently the place was, "Under Control" before the States arrived (or that's the argument that we're supposed to believe from some here )

No, that's what you should believe from Iraqis, the middle east, and those people who lived in Iraq prior to 2003. It was no pretty picture on the Human Rights front, but to a lesser degree, nor is the US.

That regime was crumbling from within. We should've just supported the public, and not gone in guns-blazing like we did. It was foolish. And it's ludicrous to suggest that nobody could have predicted it.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium After Sunnies and Shiites fight out and find a way to settle their differences,

That's some pretty strong optimism there... I mean the fact of the matter is that the number of Iraqis killing Iraqis is what 50-100 times the number of western troops being killed.

You can't say that it would all just "balance out" if the western troops came out.

And all the current Iraq trainned security personal are from the baath party. The regions would split (and I think they are going to in a sence), then since the northern and southern regions (oil rich ones) largely non-baath areas.... I think problems would definatly occur.

What do the western troops (there on a UN mandate) provide? Neutral security services and aid. Not perfectly atall but still there. End could still be a hole but atleast it give the democracy a chance (note that isn't some fox news sound bite, since the current goverment WAS voted in).

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ No, that's what you should believe from Iraqis, the middle east, and those people who lived in Iraq prior to 2003. It was no pretty picture on the Human Rights front, but to a lesser degree, nor is the US. That regime was crumbling from within. We should've just supported the public, and not gone in guns-blazing like we did. It was foolish. And it's ludicrous to suggest that nobody could have predicted it.

We'd like to think the regime was crumbling but that obviously wasn't the case since the U.N. had to create a no-fly zone around it just to keep the Kurds in the North AND Kuwait to the South safe.
Do we blame the US for THAT too?
Who was it that tried to waltz into Kuwait again?
Are we just forgetting all this happened or what?

And lets not even start in on the Food for Oil scandal between the U.N. and Iraq when they were supposed to have been under embargo...

So you suggest what? A coup?
Like the one that happened in Iran that went over SO well...


Yes, it is ludicrious to suggest that nobody could have predicted what was going to happen when Saddam was removed; pretty obvious really.
Somewhere in all of this, some people thought changing 30 years of despotism was going to happen overnight...
It's not just a government that had to change, there's a lifetime of fear, mistrust and hopelessness that has to be purged from the Iraqi psyche as well.
Only the Iraqi people can fix that and they've been given the chance to do it.

When I look at places like Dubai and the beautiful things that are going on over there, there's no reason with Iraqi's resources and the choice that they have been given, that Baghdad can't also flourish as well.
Maybe I'm sounding a little Utopian, but that's what I believe.

quote:

Originally posted by erdega Hey maybe you can go to Iraq as contractor , I hear it's a job of a high turnover but at least money is good

i don't know, maybe i should.
do you advocate the killing of contractors too?
just American contractors?

I have talked to some iraqis and most of them say that there was no known difference between shia/sunni before USA/British invaded. When they did, they kicked out all the sunnis from jobs, opened the border with Iraq to bring more shias , most of the police and government is iranian or iranian sponsored and kurds were given land for free.This created clear divisions. That's when sunnis rebelled and struck back .

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo i don't know, maybe i should. do you advocate the killing of contractors too? just American contractors?

Money is good and it's a high turnover job position. I don't advocate killings but its fair game when supporting invasion and occupation on false premises

quote:

Originally posted by erdega I have talked to some iraqis and most of them say that there was no known difference between shia/sunni before USA/British invaded. When they did, they kicked out all the sunnis from jobs, opened the border with Iraq to bring more shias , most of the police and government is iranian or iranian sponsored and kurds were given land for free.This created clear divisions. That's when sunnis rebelled and struck back .

So you're just going to ignore the questions regarding why you're circulating those video then aren't you?
Typical...

So everything was just peachy before the big "Americana-Nazi-invasion-of-2003" huh?

Dood, for someone who appears to be on the Iraqis peoples side, you're doing one hell of a lousy job convincing anyone else.
All we get is extremist propaganda and what? We're supposed to deduce....what?
That you enjoy watching Western soldiers die?
Is the 'underdog' standing up to 'Goliath' and because of a few snuff videos, they're 'winning'?
Am I supposed to feel sorry for the extremists?
Outraged?
What? What? What????

This isn't an Iraqi vs. American thing.
Terrorism is happening all over the world and just about all have common thread; a sick, extremist ideology that warps Islam.

When I start seeing stuff go down in MY backyard here in Canada, there is something really wrong in this world that transcends anti-Americanism.
Extremist Jihad does not care who the target is as long as they win.

quote:

Originally posted by erdega I don't advocate killings but its fair game when supporting invasion and occupation on false premises

is English a second laguage (seriously, we get people from all over here) or do you not know what advocate means?

you never answered my question. just American contractors?

so you want to see all contractors killed, no matter nationality, if they refuse to leave Iraq?

quote:

Originally posted by Fir3start3r Dood, for someone who appears to be on the Iraqis peoples side, you're doing one hell of a lousy job convincing anyone else.

i don't think he's on anyones side. he just doesn't like white people as a whole.

you're not getting context from this guy because he fears that he may be in over his head here intellectually. ergo the propaganda.

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Originally posted by erdega invasion and occupation on false premises

you really need to lose this several years old talking point if you want to be taken seriously.

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Originally posted by Q5echo you really need to lose this several years old talking point if you want to be taken seriously.

+1
its like so yesterday

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