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-- US Population past 300 million
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Originally posted by NeoPhono I have absolutely nothing against Hispanics. However, I do question the way in which many of them are coming to, and then living in, this country. I do not see similarities in that regard between the European immigrants of 100 years ago and Hispanic immigrants of today.

We have a Neo-Nazis on PDD!!! Who would have guessed?

look I bet you would feel comfortable knowing me just because I'm white. But you would feel threatend by my mother cuz shes brown. I highly doubt 50% of the pop wouldn't be able to communicate with your white counterparts. There is at least one that can, in the family, that can understand the English language. My family understands English, but other Hispanic families don't because they come here to work. And wanting a better life for their children. They work their ass off all day so what can you expect from people who don't have time to learn the new language.

And than you have people here who feel threatened by them just because of where they are from. Yeah, there is a lot of openess from the Americans to these brown people.

@NeoPhone:
Don't be scared of the brown people, remember the Irish and the Catholics?? They were seen by the WASPs that ran the country back in the days as lower forms of life.
I won't flame you, I just pity you cause you are blinded by ignorance.

and lets talk about the People that NeoPhone is scared of: and what NeoPhone type of thinking is doing to farmers cause Non-Brown people are TOO FUCKING LAZY TO PULL THIER WIEGHT FOR THIS COUNTRY!! AND THAT GOES FOR YOU BLACK PEOPLE TOO!!!!!

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It's the middle of harvest season for California raisin grapes, and only half of the farmworkers needed are in the fields. What holds for raisin grapes is happening widely in California agriculture. In the Central Valley alone, there is a shortage of from 70,000 to 80,000 workers to bring fresh fruits, nuts and vegetables to market, according to an estimate by the trade association Western Growers. Some growers are planting fewer acres than normal as they scramble to save the season. Western Growers is worried that the lack of workers -- mostly immigrants from Mexico and Central America -- could cause $1 billion in losses to California agriculture this year.

SOURCE


tsk tsk tsk Neophone, and you are so smart in other areas that are discussed on this board... what a waste

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid We have a Neo-Nazis on PDD!!! Who would have guessed? look I bet you would feel comfortable knowing me just because I'm white. But you would feel threatend by my mother cuz shes brown. I highly doubt 50% of the pop wouldn't be able to communicate with your white counterparts. There is at least one that can, in the family, that can understand the English language. My family understands English, but other Hispanic families don't because they come here to work. And wanting a better life for their children. They work their ass off all day so what can you expect from people who don't have time to learn the new language. And than you have people here who feel threatened by them just because of where they are from. Yeah, there is a lot of openess from the Americans to these brown people.

Like I said; I knew I'd be yelled at.

A country needs to have some sort of cohesiveness if it wants to stay together. Just ask Rome, Alexander the Great, or the fractured states left over from the USSR. If you can't even communicate basic emotions and feelings with countrymen, then I argue that you have no real ties with them. Furthermore, if they have no allegiance to said country, I further feel they have no real ties to its citizens. Secondly, if you have a large number the immigrant population not committing anything to the structure of the nation, through taxes (working does some, but not nearly what taxes do), then you're doubly doomed for failure.

I don't doubt the ability of Hispanic immigrants to work hard, or that they want to "make a better life," that is no different from the European immigrants of years past. What is different is the unwillingness on the part of many to learn the "native" language or partake in the activities other citizens do. Second is the lack of the addition to the national infrastructure through the payment of taxes.

I have no problem with immigrants, and as I said, no problem with Hispanics. What I do have a problem with is people that come to this country either illegally or that refuse to integrate themselves into the existing culture at all.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Like I said; I knew I'd be yelled at.

Who was yelling? I Wasn't yelling

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I have no problem with immigrants, and as I said, no problem with Hispanics. What I do have a problem with is people that come to this country either illegally or that refuse to integrate themselves into the existing culture at all.

Who? Like Russians who think they are unique just because they come from Russia? There is a dating website for Russians ONLY.

And they bring in music from Russia, pop music, and other crap. Same thing goes with Asians and wouldn't American food taste like crap without the Asians or Mexicans?


I have no problem with immigrants and what I do have a problem. Is when newly arrived immigrants from Eastern Europe are accepted just because of their skin color. Also, than these immigrants feel they have more of a right here just because they came here due to course. And this isn't always the case. Farmers at the border and border patrol agents say they have arrested EVEN E. Europeans at the border. But these immigrants would be more accepted just because of their skin color.

Now tell me is that fair?

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid I have no problem with immigrants and what I do have a problem. Is when newly arrived immigrants from Eastern Europe are accepted just because of their skin color. Also, than these immigrants feel they have more of a right here just because they came here due to course. And this isn't always the case. Farmers at the border and border patrol agents say they have arrested EVEN E. Europeans at the border. But these immigrants would be more accepted just because of their skin color.

True.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono I have no problem with immigrants, and as I said, no problem with Hispanics. What I do have a problem with is people that come to this country either illegally or that refuse to integrate themselves into the existing culture at all.

Have you tried too immigrate too the US lately?
Its genuinely unpleasent, so much so that after a few weeks of fiddling around with the red tape, being harrassed badly in airports and treated as a second-class citizen by a lot of people I decided it really wasnt worth it.

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Originally posted by Lilith Have you tried too immigrate too the US lately? Its genuinely unpleasent, so much so that after a few weeks of fiddling around with the red tape, being harrassed badly in airports and treated as a second-class citizen by a lot of people I decided it really wasnt worth it.

Welcome to the US. You have to go through that to register your vehicle, pay your taxes, buy a home, collect welfare or social security and just about anything else the government has a hand in. I'm not saying the process of naturalization is easy and I'm sure there are ways to make it less difficult, but I'm not going to say that because it is "difficult" that illegal immigration is an acceptable alternative. I'd also argue that changing citizenship shouldn't be as easy as filling out a credit card application or even getting a passport. Changing citizenship is a huge matter, and shouldn't be taken lightly. To me changing citizenship is a major step and should not be as easy as signing your name on a piece of paper, getting a stamp, and you're done.

To answer metalgearsolid; as horrible as you may think it, that's a stereotype, yes it's wrong but it's there. I don't know many (if any) illegal immigrants from Europe or Asia. However, if I want to see illegal immigrants from Mexico, all I have to do (literally) is walk to the Wendy's up the street. The number varies, but somewhere from 500,000 to 800,000 Mexicans come to the US illegally every year. There is no other group that comes even close to that number. I'm sorry that people equate illegal Mexicans to everyone who appears Hispanic, but as wrong as it is, that's how it is.

And again, immigrants have come from non-English speaking countries to the US for hundreds of years. The great majority (including my great-grandparents from Italy) took it upon themselves to learn the language, but for some reason there is a refusal of many Spanish-speaking immigrants to do so today, and people are looked down upon for wanting to "force" them to learn English.

Stereotypes are wrong, I agree, but some of the work in removing the stereotype against Hispanics needs to be done from within the Hispanic community. If you don't want Hispanics to be viewed as illegal immigrants who refuse to learn the language or participate in American culture, then the Hispanics need to do something. They can motivate those living legally in the US to become at least partially conversational in the language. They can also try to motivate those coming into the country to do so legally.

Neophono, in the USA unlike Europe, citizen is determined by birth by land not birth by blood.

The first means, if you are born within the a country, you are that country's citizen. The second means if you are born to parents with a citizenship of a country, you are a citizen of that country.


Since all second generation hispanics are American citizens, I see no problem in them assimilating, also most 2nd generation hispancs know english. This is not any different then most other immigration masses that have come into the USA.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono I would cite a few differences between European and Latin American immigration. 1. The Europeans, for the most part did it legally, so their property and income was taxed, adding to the financial base of the country. Illegal immigrants cannot say the same. 2. The Europeans made a concerted effort to naturalize themselves. Even though they kept their customs, they learned the language and the native habits. Today we have immigrant groups that refuse to learn the language, making communication impossible between "fellow citizens." --In short, and this is very simplified and will get me flamed; if, in 50 years, one half of the population can no longer relate or communicate with the other, we will not have a sense of American unity and I find it hard not to believe that if times become hard, Americans will have no trouble dividing the country be means of ethnic lines. This will only be compounded if one side of the cultural divide sees the other as not "paying into the system," by being illegal citizens and not paying taxes into the tax base like everyone else. I have absolutely nothing against Hispanics. However, I do question the way in which many of them are coming to, and then living in, this country. I do not see similarities in that regard between the European immigrants of 100 years ago and Hispanic immigrants of today.

Okay The majority of Hispanics here are legally! and most of them know english and spanish but since the media loves too only show those immigrants that dont speak english that makes sense for your statement.

dude, i think you are confused! there are hispanics here that are here legally. they got into a plane and came here example, in central america in the 80s where there was a huge wave of immigrants coming to america due to the instability of their country at that time with the whole "revolucion" taking place they came here legally, i would know because my parents were some of those people. now, another one. people from venezuela, lots of the now im miami those in general are here legally i could go on all night describing to you the situation of each country in LA. but now those that come here illegal. the majority of them are mexicans and central americans. true they come here illegal and break the laws, im with you on that. but you will be surprised how here in south florida i go to homstead(city) where you the majority are mexicans working the fields, they sell like fruits and vegetables and you encounter them selling too you in english. i mean one time i was surprised that i saw some old lady communicating to me in english. i was like DAMN! i learned something, that when it comes to speaking and learning english mexicans are the ones that make better progress. sure their english might not be perfect but you can communicate with me. here in miami you dont need too know english, spanish is like the official language lol but it still spoken more, the new generation(my) is adapting more too english. i have a lot of hispanic friends(most) that they either where born here or came here, and they dont either dominate spanish very well. so you would see generations to come hispanics adapting more and more to the english language.

okay, i someone mentioned most of the illegal immigrants come here to work hard. they dont come here to study and then go to work! come on nowadays is even hard for an individual to have a full time job and then go to school. even if these people wanted to go to school to learn english, how can they if they dont even have papers to do so? or to afford such education if what they are getting paid is a nothing the europeans back in the days didnt have to worry about going out and being taken into custody by ICE and then being deported back to their country but w.e

you like to talk about being neutralized? with what laws? please! you got to be kidding me. once i saw an interesting interview with an immigartion lawyer and how he compared the past too now. back then you cam to this country, you hired a lawyer, and he would to go your state capitol too find a solution or some loophole to allow you to stay here. now you cant! because you have laws that prohibit that. you cant go an overwrite a federal law just for "one" case. that is why we have congress at this moment(sadly playing games with the issue) to bring some type of resolution to the issue.

quote:

Originally posted by LatinLover

Rather than put it so many times, just use this one the next time you feel like overusing it.



Also, I realize your latin and all defensive about this, but your comment about hispanics learning the language is off. Contrary to your post right above, it's not the media that tells us this. It's interacting with latinos that has shown us that in many, many instances, they're not on par speaking english. Now the 2nd and 3rd generation do, because they've attended US schools.

BTW, i'm not against immigration, I'm just against the way the system is being subverted by many people. I'm against anyone they catch illegally crossing either the Mexican or Canadian border, whether he's Mexican, Chinese, Russian, whatever. The reason the latinos get all the blame is because they're closer, so there are more of them. Never in this country's history has the number and proportion of immigrants, illegal or not, been as high as it is with the Mexicans. Even between 1900-1910, when the highest number of people immigrated here in the past 150 years (until now, where I think the numbers are the same as that decade), the largest percentage were the Germans with 14%. At least then it was a melting pot, but recently we've just become an annex for Latinos.

Again, I have no problem with legal immigrants. And again, because it is "difficult" to become a citizen legally does not give anyone the right to bypass the system and come here illegally. Change the system if you must, but breaking the law is not justifiable due to the challenges the system has in place.

As was just said though, I do believe the Hispanic immigrants to be much less open to learning the language than other groups. I can go into either of the two Asian markets up the street from me, and even though they are freshly immigrated to the US, they can at least carry on a basic conversation. As I said before though, if I go to Wendy's, which is on the exact same street, I can only talk to the cashier. I went up once to ask the Hispanic guy making the food for ketchup packets and he gave me a blank stare and called over the English speaking manager. The guy could get a job (where the manager talked to him in Spanish and me in English), but he couldn't even understand a basic English sentence; "can I have some ketchup packets, please." Like I said, when you don't even have the ability to communicate basic ideas and emotions with fellow countrymen, your nation is doomed. (Yes, I am assuming that he is a countryman, because you have to be in order to work here, or have a work visa. Either that or he was an illegal.)

I'll have to look for them later, but there is a wealth of articles dealing with the issues of the immigrant language barrier. One such example is public schools. With the influx of non English speaking individuals, the public school system is in disarray trying to figure out how to teach non English speaking students with English speaking teachers.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Rather than put it so many times, just use this one the next time you feel like overusing it.

quote:

Originally posted by Groundhog Boy Also, I realize your latin and all defensive about this, but your comment about hispanics learning the language is off. Contrary to your post right above, it's not the media that tells us this. It's interacting with latinos that has shown us that in many, many instances, they're not on par speaking english. Now the 2nd and 3rd generation do, because they've attended US schools.

I was never getting defensive about illegal immigrants. Well yeah, If you go places like to fast food restaurants, construction sites, ofcourse you will encounter illegali immigrants that only speak spanish. Why dont you see the other side and go to a law office, a business etc... To see the # of hispanics and see if they speak english We tend to complain more and more towards the places we usually visist like I mentioned fast food restaurants, and other stores that hire illegals! Well I dont want to divert this topic to illegal immigrants.(they are a diff case) but the media likes to show this case as a "generalization" of all hispanics here. Which is not the case! As I mentioned the majority illegals that reside here in the US, are from Mexico and Central America. They might be the majority but are they all of the latin groups here? No.

In english I might agree with you guys. The adults might not have a chance or desire to learn the language. Why? Because afterall it is not demanded were they work. It will all depend on the individual, some might take the time and effort to learn english others might not!

More and more from my understanding employers want spanish and english speaking employees. They know that hispanics are a big market, and it has a good future outlook. For example, here the governor of Florida, idk if this law has been passed or still pending, but the law will make little kids(elementary) start from an early age taking spanish classes. So I dont see spanish being a problem, it all depends were you reside, in the big cities its not that much of a problem because the majority of hispanics when they come here tend too reside in big cities.

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