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-- Michael Schumacher's Last Race
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quote:

Originally posted by mute79 Same can be argued for Schumacher then, he was only winning because they had the best package for so long and all other teams couldn't get anything reliable put together. Weak argument as they're both great drivers.

When Schumi came to Benetton, it was a 2nd-rate team, and he took it to the top. Villeneuve couldn't even finish in the points with other teams (if he finished the race at all). And before you throw out that he was in crappy teams, I'll remind you that his teammates managed to get on podiums in the same Hondas Jacques was coming 15th in.

Look up the fastest lap records for all the tracks. Like 70% of it is Michael in his Ferrari. And those records were set a while ago. You telling me since then no one could engineer a car comparable to Ferrari a few years back? also, there's not just one driver per team - there's two. Where are all the wonderful accomplishments of Schumacher's teammates over the years? If it was jsut because of the car, they should have been setting records too, no?

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur When Schumi came to Benetton, it was a 2nd-rate team, and he took it to the top. Villeneuve couldn't even finish in the points with other teams (if he finished the race at all). And before you throw out that he was in crappy teams, I'll remind you that his teammates managed to get on podiums in the same Hondas Jacques was coming 15th in.

Dima, that's hardly a fair comparison.

Benetton had an established package when Schumi came to them. He only suffered 3 engine failures in 4 years with that team. Most of his retirements were due to accidents/spinning off rather than mechanical failures.

JV was going to basically a new team. Granted they had Tyrell equipment, but nobody would dare compare Tryell with Benneton-Ford/Renault.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 Same can be argued for Schumacher then, he was only winning because they had the best package for so long and all other teams couldn't get anything reliable put together. Weak argument as they're both great drivers.

Vill is not a great driver that's for sure, it's too bad the the best are always hated, i don't follow racing but i constantly hear is how vill. is always dissappointing and what a great driver schumacher is .... i don't think he'll be forgotten

Remember Adelaide '94 when Schumacher ran into Damon Hill, to take him out of the race completely so he could win the title with a one point lead? How can anyone support a driver like him after he does tricks like that?!

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 Remember Adelaide '94 when Schumacher ran into Damon Hill, to take him out of the race completely so he could win the title with a one point lead? How can anyone support a driver like him after he does tricks like that?!

Dude, give it up. Seriously, this is a dead horse.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Please! Now you're just grasping for straws - so Schumacher is to blame for what Jean Todt did? That makes a lot of sense.

ahah, what are you saying, that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing? they're not the mafia for crying out loud! they're cheaters!

quote:

Originally posted by djeso Vill is not a great driver that's for sure, it's too bad the the best are always hated, i don't follow racing but i constantly hear is how vill. is always dissappointing and what a great driver schumacher is .... i don't think he'll be forgotten

umm, no, Villeneuve IS a great driver and he's continually proven that during his career..

anyways, let's not turn this into a topic on Villeneuve, let's get back on Schumacher and his bag of dirty tricks!

quote:

Originally posted by klago Dude, give it up. Seriously, this is a dead horse.

ok fine, how about then most recently this year in Monaco when he parked right on the racing line to block everyone during qualifying (for which he got penalized and started from the back row)?! i can go on forever like this thanks to his stellar career race antics..

GO LEWIS HAMILTON !

hey mute79, go away.

I have been watching f1 since 95 and I dont care what you are saying, what has been done. I am trying to gather some people to watch the race this Sunday, not sit here and cry about his past exploits.

We have discussed the issue to death, and people are sick of it. Leave it alone. People like you, love to rain on other people's parade, and for what? Do you feel any better about having 'shown us the light'?


I will ask again, does anybody want to get together to watch the race this Sunday? Does anybody know of any bars that carry auto racing? I would have people over to my house to watch, but my cable just got cut.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko hey mute79, go away. I have been watching f1 since 95 and I dont care what you are saying, what has been done. I am trying to gather some people to watch the race this Sunday, not sit here and cry about his past exploits. We have discussed the issue to death, and people are sick of it. Leave it alone. People like you, love to rain on other people's parade, and for what? Do you feel any better about having 'shown us the light'? I will ask again, does anybody want to get together to watch the race this Sunday? Does anybody know of any bars that carry auto racing? I would have people over to my house to watch, but my cable just got cut.

I could be up for it if you find such a bar.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 ahah, what are you saying, that one hand doesn't know what the other is doing? they're not the mafia for crying out loud! they're cheaters! umm, no, Villeneuve IS a great driver and he's continually proven that during his career..

says who? a good driver can over came all the obstacles to reach his goals, did he? when and where

all i can remeber about Schumacher is him trying to take out Villeneuve cuz jaques was passing him and he was gonna loose the championship we all know how that one ended

quote:

Originally posted by djeso says who? a good driver can over came all the obstacles to reach his goals, did he? when and where

not in F1... it's not enough to have the skills, you need the team to deliver a strong package, which is also why you see so many 1-2 finishes... if one team gets it right, both drivers will do well (which brings up another big point of team orders at ferrari, but i'll keep my mouth shut about that)

anyways, it's not called the pinacle of motoracing for no reason... it's all about the technological advancements your team can come up before the competition

Villeneuve IS a great driver...


im sad to see shumi go though, since i never got to seem him race live.


every driver has their antics.... you cant for one second think hes not the greatest driver in f1 ever. youd be dumb to thnk otherwise.

quote:

Originally posted by mute79 How can anyone support a driver like him after he does tricks like that?!

because hes a rich and successful badass

Ok, I found two bars that are willing to show the race, anybody up for it:

Smokey Joe's Cafe
4899 Yonge Street
Yonge and sheppard
http://smokeyjoescafe.sites.toronto.com/


Joe Mercury's Big City Sports Bar & Grill
2345 B Dundas St. W.
NW corner of Bloor & Dundas
http://joemercurys.sites.toronto.com/

Ok, I came into this a bit late, but here are my thoughts:

JV should stfu. He had the best package when he won in 97. Schu had the best package with Benetton when he won before that. When Schu left for Ferrari, the Scuderia was a mid-pack also-ran. He finished 3rd in 96. It took him until 2000 to develop the car & team to the point of winning the drivers championship (the team's first drivers title since Jody Schekter in the early 80's) though they did win the constructors title in 99, and for the next 6 straight years.

JV left the dominant package for the bags of money being offered by BAR. Hell, JV finished 5th in 98 even though he was still in the same Wlliams. While Ken Tyrrell has been one of the greatest innovators in Formula 1 history, his team at this time was sadly, an also-ran. When JV showed up, he didn't devote the same passion to testing and car development as Schu. He has a history of going against the advice of his engineers and his skills at car setup aren't always the best. He's a difficult personality to have on the team, as was told to me by one of their aerodynamicists back in 2001. In the time since Williams, he never scored more than 20 points in a season.

Button:
2003 F1 (BAR), 9�, 17 points
2004 F1 (BAR), 3�, 85 points
2005 F1 (BAR), 9�, 37 points

JV:
1999 F1 (BAR), 0 point
2000 F1 (BAR), 7�, 17 points
2001 F1 (BAR), 7�, 12 points
2002 F1 (BAR), 12�, 4 points
2003 F1 (BAR), 16�, 6 points

These standings above show just how outclassed JV is as a driver (don't give me any car improvements crap either If JV took less salary during his time at BAR, maybe the car might have been just that little bit better. He was one of the highest paid drivers while at BAR without a half-decent season to show for it).

Schumacher, while using some really asshole tactics over the years, has been one of the hardest testing, most consistent drivers of the modern era. His technical knowledge and passion to work with his engineers to get the most out of the car is impressive. Yeah he's often a cold asshole, but his results speak for themselves. If Schu manages to win today, he will have tied the total number of wins by Prost and Senna COMBINED. Nevermind nobody ever dreamed anyone would beat JM Fangio's 5 World Drivers Championships.

I've never really cheered for Schu, though I've always respected him. Ever since watching his first race at Spa back in 1991 and he was taking Eau Rouge flat-out I've been impressed by his raw talent. I actually would like to see him win this one today.

I would really love to see Rubens or Massa win at home though.

One last note: Fuck TSN today. Bastards are tape-delaying the race to show fucking NassCAR.

Paul

perfect top 3 for me.
massa winning at his home track.
alonso winning the championship.
button being on the podium

shumacher, good years behind the wheel.
nice suit massa too.
good year of F1 racing. hope next year is just as competitive or more.

I for one, thought that this season surpassed the last one. Much more exciting. Lets see how next year turns out. But I guess we will NEVER EVER see anything like the '79 French GP (Dijon) between Villeneuve and Arnoux.

^^^ Yes guy!!!

That's my favourite F1 highlight ever, with an in-car qualifying lap by Senna @ Monaco in the mid-80's being a close second. Amazing skills.

The best bit is that after the Dijon race, the marshalls gave Arnoux and Gilles shit for such dangerous racing. The two drivers just laughed and cwalked away. The quote from Arnoux at the end sums it all up

Paul

quote:

Originally posted by 4-play I for one, thought that this season surpassed the last one. Much more exciting. Lets see how next year turns out. But I guess we will NEVER EVER see anything like the '79 French GP (Dijon) between Villeneuve and Arnoux.

WOW!!! That was awesome!!

quote:

Originally posted by pmoisse ^^^ Yes guy!!! That's my favourite F1 highlight ever, with an in-car qualifying lap by Senna @ Monaco in the mid-80's being a close second. Amazing skills. The best bit is that after the Dijon race, the marshalls gave Arnoux and Gilles shit for such dangerous racing. The two drivers just laughed and cwalked away. The quote from Arnoux at the end sums it all up Paul

I wish I were there to see these races during the 70s and early 80s, minus incidents such as Pryce, Villeneuve, Lauda (thank god he got out alive), and the likes. People should not complain that F1 is 'too safe'. They learned from their mistakes.

quote:

Originally posted by 4-play I wish I were there to see these races during the 70s and early 80s, minus incidents such as Pryce, Villeneuve, Lauda (thank god he got out alive), and the likes. People should not complain that F1 is 'too safe'. They learned from their mistakes.

Me too. I would have loved to see races back in the 70's and 80's. There have been all too many lives cut short in F1, and it's a testament to the evolution of the technology that the severe injury/death rate has gone down so dramatically. Gordon Murray with the MP4-4 chassis can be credited with getting the safety ball rolling.

RIP Francois Cevert and Jochen Rindt as well.

Lauda's wreck at the Nurburgring was awful. Jody Scheckter was the first one on the scene and saved Lauda's life by pulling him out of the burning car. It's amazing that Lauda was back racing 4 races later!!

Formula 1, and motorsport as a whole, has a pretty gruesome and deadly past. Every driver on the road today can thank motorsport for making their cars safer.

Paul

I was having a shit <-- link

This is why I love Kimi

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