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-- Is alcohol a drug?
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quote:

Originally posted by oldschool420 It may not be as addictive but it is just as if not WAY more destructive than other illegal drugs. How many people die each year from drinking and driving? All the fights and vadalizing.. that's mostly drunks, with the exception of the cokehead+drunks.. that's just a bad combo.

IMO alcohol is far more addictive than illicit/recreational drugs.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 on the contrast Jem, I find it hard not to be "somewhat" fucked up when I go out. It sounds shallow, but it's kinda boring to be a bar or club and completely sober. Or maybe my life is boring.

Bar, YES, unless really just having a ball socializing with all my close friends and having a hoot bc of that.

At a club, the music keeps me going.

But more and more you wont see me sober at trance events (unless its tech trance) bc the music isnt doing it for me in a dancing sense anymore at the clubs (only when listening to it at home or in the car, or at like house parties)

At techno parties, FUCK DRUNK, I get so high on my own energy I feel like im high as a kite!

I still really wanna experience a techno party just sloshed, but I have a feeling i wont like it as much... something about techno... i just love to analyse the track as its dropping... and just i dunno, get lost in it... which is harder when im hammered outta my tree.

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Originally posted by Jem_hadar LOL, what about for those ppl that never through up or get hangovers? If I drink white wine or beer, I'm one of those individuals. I simply have no negative side effects that would deter me from wanting to drink all the time. No negative connotations to over-drinking... even when that's like 5-6 beers at a buddy house before the pub, and then 4 pitchers at the pub itself... LOL London Pub was a gloriously drunk night for me... and sadly, not even at the top of my list.

Just to re-iterate and expand on what you said Jem...

MDMA is psychologically addictive, but not physiologically addictive. For a substance to be truly addictive, it needs to be physiologically addictive. In other words, your body needs it, and you cannot control it.

edit: Looks like I quoted the wrong reply, I meant to quote the reply prior to this one, lol...

quote:

Originally posted by alefort Just to re-iterate and expand on what you said Jem... MDMA is psychologically addictive, but not physiologically addictive. For a substance to be truly addictive, it needs to be physiologically addictive. In other words, your body needs it, and you cannot control it. edit: Looks like I quoted the wrong reply, I meant to quote the reply prior to this one, lol...

Interesting. Thx for the reply.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 think about all the problems that would create though. We already have enough drunk drivers out there...we don't need who knows how many more fucked up on harder drugs driving and killing other people and themselves. I'm all for decriminilisation for possession. If people want to get drugs they can, but they shouldn't be treated in the same vein as assaulters, bank robbers, etc. I have to admit I would feel better taking a E if it had been manufactured by a drug company and sold in an LCBO, for example, but that's just not a reality in the near future.

But it happens already. How many people out there get high and drive? Legal or illegal wont change that.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 think about all the problems that would create though. We already have enough drunk drivers out there...we don't need who knows how many more fucked up on harder drugs driving and killing other people and themselves.

Make it like owning a gun.
You can own a gun, but if you use it to murder someone (not in self defence), you go to a jail for a looooong time.

You choose the action, you have chosen the consequences

Yes, alcohol is a drug. Any substance that alters the way the body functions, whether it be mental or physical, is a drug.

Being drunk sucks tho, I'd take being high over being drunk anyday.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Make it like owning a gun. You can own a gun, but if you use it to murder someone (not in self defence), you go to a jail for a looooong time. You choose the action, you have chosen the consequences

that should be how it is in most cases. Im sick of the government treating everyone like a child presuming they are guilty before they even have the chance to prove otherwise.

Increase enforcement and let people live their lives.

this stupid website's a drug.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 Of course it's a drug. It alters your mental and physical state in the same way that other illegal drugs do, although the effects are different. Alcohol is a depressant and the only reason that it's legal is that it's been around for centuries. Look what happened when they tried to ban it in North America in the 1920s (Canada too). I think people who drink booze but look down on other drugs based on that fact that one is legal and others are not are a bit hypocritical. Perhaps alcohol is safer to some degree but people overdose on booze all the time; we just don't hear about it as often as you would when somebody OD"s on E, coke, heroin, etc.

+1

A lot of people wrongly assume that there must be scentifically-based reasons for the distinction between licit and illicit drugs as a criminology student I can say that this belief is completely unfounded and the proposition it expresses is wholly false.

Opium, for instance, was criminalized in the beginning of the 20th century in an attempt by the Canadian government to discourage Asian immigration into the country. Cannabis, as another example, was criminalzed without much reason: in fact, in the 1930s when the issue of marijuana became more hotly debated, a significant amount of politicians did not even realize that the drug was illegal. Ecstasy, yet another example, was criminalized in the states a few decades ago not after clinical research had demonstrated its potential harms, but after the drug had spread to mainstream culture and was being used recreationally in night clubs.

Everybody knows the statistics concerning the amount of deaths that alcohol causes each year versus other drugs.

Furthermore, prescription medication can be extremely dangerous: research on drugs like Paxil will demonstrate this point.

Keep in mind, it is not a coincident that Big Pharma has been unable to patent a (real) cannabis drug: THC is from a plant and organic things cannot be patented--otherwise, cannabis would definitely have been the product of Pharma by now.

The world we live in eh?!

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Originally posted by Jayx1 that should be how it is in most cases. Im sick of the government treating everyone like a child presuming they are guilty before they even have the chance to prove otherwise. Increase enforcement and let people live their lives.

That makes too much sence, but it won't happen in the near future. I think it would make everything much safer, because you would know exactly what you are getting everytime.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 But it happens already. How many people out there get high and drive? Legal or illegal wont change that.

that's but one example. Think off all the addiction and substance abuse problems our society would have if cocaine and E were fully legal. If they were legal, the price would probably drop. I can't think of how many I know (maybe myself) who would be in trouble if a gram of clean cocaine was only 30 bucks. Of course, if the government was running it, they'd tax the crap out of it and perhaps be able to afford all the rehab programs.

But I really don't think our society is ready to allow the full legalisation of another ten or so addictive substances on the market. I'm all for decriminilisation as I said but legalistion needs to be approached slowly and very carefully.

North America can't even allow itself to serve booze during certain hours of the day.

That needs to change before any other substances become legal. Our liquor laws are so antiquated.

quote:

Originally posted by oldschool420 That makes too much sence, but it won't happen in the near future. I think it would make everything much safer, because you would know exactly what you are getting everytime.

definitely! It would be true MDMA which, let's all be honest, is getting harder to come by these days. I trust my people but still, my own doctor said lately that meth is working its way into street E at alarming levels. I'd like to get one of those testing kits because when I buy E, I don't want to be high for 12 hours and I don't want to be paralysed, which has happened and really pisses me off.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 that's but one example. Think off all the addiction and substance abuse problems our society would have if cocaine and E were fully legal. If they were legal, the price would probably drop. I can't think of how many I know (maybe myself) who would be in trouble if a gram of clean cocaine was only 30 bucks. Of course, if the government was running it, they'd tax the crap out of it and perhaps be able to afford all the rehab programs.

If you got addiction problems, don't come running to govt to fix you up because you made poor decisions.

Private rehab programs if you need one.

quote:

But I really don't think our society is ready to allow the full legalisation of another ten or so addictive substances on the market. I'm all for decriminilisation as I said but legalistion needs to be approached slowly and very carefully.

+1

You need very carefully thought out and properly spread education programs to get ppl to be aware about dangers of using drugs. (kinda like getting a gun license)

Another possibility. What about licensing drugs? Like get a permit to do drugs 'legally' and in order to get a permit, you have to attend classes to be fully aware of what you're getting into.

Just a thought throwing out there

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Originally posted by EvilTree If you got addiction problems, don't come running to govt to fix you up because you made poor decisions. Private rehab programs if you need one.

but in our case, the government controls alcohol and would presumably control other recreational substances. So they're making money out of potentially harmful and addictive substances. But then to say "well it's your fault for buying it" doesn't quite work in my books. That sounds really NDPish but yeah...

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 but in our case, the government controls alcohol and would presumably control other recreational substances. So they're making money out of potentially harmful and addictive substances. But then to say "well it's your fault for buying it" doesn't quite work in my books. That sounds really NDPish but yeah...

It's like signing any contracts with potential harmful clause. Like bungey jumping you sign a waiver saying if the rope fucks up and you fall, you don't get sued. (ok. poor example perhaps but you get the idea)

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree It's like signing any contracts with potential harmful clause. Like bungey jumping you sign a waiver saying if the rope fucks up and you fall, you don't get sued. (ok. poor example perhaps but you get the idea)

I see what you're saying and I agree somewhat. It's like all the casinos popping up and the concern over gambling addiction. It irritates me when people blame everything on the government or corporation that allows them to purchase potentially harmful products.

But if you put a substance like cocaine in the hands of a young person and have it available and affordable...I can just see some of the immediate problems it would cause. Think of all the people who would try the currently illegal drugs who do not do them now for reasons of illegality, inability to attain, etc. That's why I think we should take a great, great grandfather approach and do it slowly. Weed should of course, be fully legal, as should prostitution.

But I don't think these things will move significantly forward until our generation takes power and even then, we might not see it through.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I see what you're saying and I agree somewhat. It's like all the casinos popping up and the concern over gambling addiction. It irritates me when people blame everything on the government or corporation that allows them to purchase potentially harmful products. But if you put a substance like cocaine in the hands of a young person and have it available and affordable...I can just see some of the immediate problems it would cause. Think of all the people who would try the currently illegal drugs who do not do them now for reasons of illegality, inability to attain, etc. That's why I think we should take a great, great grandfather approach and do it slowly. Weed should of course, be fully legal, as should prostitution. But I don't think these things will move significantly forward until our generation takes power and even then, we might not see it through.

Parenting. It all starts at family level.

If parents do their job properly, govt need not have to keep passing on messages like 'smoking is harmful'.

Alcohol is a legalized drug.

quote:

Originally posted by Skipper IMO alcohol is far more addictive than illicit/recreational drugs.

i totaly agree.

u dont see people having problems with doing mdma on a daily basis, im sure it happens but the chances are extremely low.

on the other hand drinking and alcoholism occurs all the time, and its not realy looked down upon in our society.


Personaly i would rather go to a club totaly sober (well maybe a redbull or 2) then go to a club drunk.

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ i totaly agree. u dont see people having problems with doing mdma on a daily basis, im sure it happens but the chances are extremely low. on the other hand drinking and alcoholism occurs all the time, and its not realy looked down upon in our society. Personaly i would rather go to a club totaly sober (well maybe a redbull or 2) then go to a club drunk.

not so much E though. But I can totally see how it's easy to do it weekly (I know many people who've done that for years). I think the case for E being legalised is quite strong but I wouldn't count on it for at least 10-20 years. But you think alcohol is more addictive than cocaine, heroin, speed, crack, crystal meth, etc? I can't see those substances ever being legalised. The abuse factor there is much higher than alcohol and if it were readily available, we'd have some problems.

i cant make the judgment because i have never done any of them.

and when i say E i mean MDMA (molly) and not Methstacy, which is the majority of shit that is goin around.

quote:

Originally posted by _EuG_ i cant make the judgment because i have never done any of them. and when i say E i mean MDMA (molly) and not Methstacy, which is the majority of shit that is goin around.

lol, yes I know the difference. I'm positive I've had both in my system, under the assumption that they were E. You know something is wrong when you're completey fucked up STILL after 8 hours on one pill. I only trust one source because they've always been good. In that sense, I'd like to see the government legalise MDMA because then I could get what I really want and not have to fret over whether it's K, meth, etc. It ruins the experience when you're not sold on what you've got.

you havent tried mdma till you actualy got it in powder / crystal form...

all pills are adultrated with something, be it coffen, ephadrine, meth, ampth, k, Diphenhydramine... etc.

and it takes one time to do real mdma to realise this and never touch another pill ever again

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