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-- self taught vs. dj schools...
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I think the best thing to do would be to get a demo of Traktor or something and just play around a bit. That way, when you get the real thing, you have an idea of WTF is going on. Also, in case it losses it's appeal you don't end up spending a bunch of dough on some DNS-1000's or w/e.

Using digital and mp3/CD's is like cheating. Vinyl dj'ing actually reqires you to know how to blend, sync, and segue with a level of cordination and musical skill. I'm self taught and started on vinyl @ age 10 now 23 and didn't have the net or others available to teach me. I did go to college for audio production and that took my dj'ing and production to the next level. Plus I had some very good friends who went to full sail show me how understanding sound design and engineering vastly opens up potential in the dj realm. If your gonna go to school for music then go to understand electronic music and how it's made. Learning the mechanics of dj'ing is only 25% of the trade and shouldn't take more than a year or two to master if you learn about music theroy and engineering/mastering audio.

quote:

Originally posted by jacklodestar Using digital and mp3/CD's is like cheating. Vinyl dj'ing actually reqires you to know how to blend, sync, and segue with a level of cordination and musical skill.

Mind elaborating on that?

Most CD players show BPM, and allow seamless looping as well as perfect cueing to the 1 or 4 beat so you can play the beat (as like a drum machine) and release it almost perfectly in syncronazation with the track playing that your planning to mix into. It makes it so that you don't have to learn how to control your hands and you don't have to master locking a beat quickly and efficiently. Think about it, that seamless looping feature that most digital decks have kinda defeats the purpose of having to be good at matching a beat, keeping it locked, and mixing it all in the space of 32-48 count into's and outro's. So yeah if you started on Digital gear and never learned the art of vinyl mixing or never converted to vinyl then your not gonna be as skilled as a vinyl dj. It's also frustrating as hell to see some digital guy nail a mix with almost no effort at all and then the ignorant audience just assumes that all dj'ing is same and expect a vinyl jock to do the same thing not knowing how much more effort and precision is needed to consistently sound perfect on turntables as opposed to digital gear. So yeah it is like cheating,...it wouldn't be so bad if people respected vinyl dj's more than digital dj's,...because it's an issue of difficulty and the skills that are needed are on a completely different level.

As far as I'm concerned there's little difference between beatmatching digitally or using vinyl. The same skills, apart from vinyl manipulation, are required. If you use the beatcounters and rely on them you're going to get a sloppy mix anyway.

Jarv

OKOKOKOK!

I have been DJing for roughly 3 years, which really isn't a whole lot, but after about a year, year and a half ish I moved to India. When I moved there, I didn't know a soul in the scene, didn't have my gear yet, and wanted to be able to mix and meet other DJs. I had come from a bit of a crew where there was about 5 of us guys who all mixed together frequently and leaving that perfect situation was difficult.

So, I found a DJ school in Bombay and enrolled for a small, 'advanced' level course. I wanted to get more confortable with CDJs, but really just get on the decks again and mix.

As it turned out, my professor was a deep old school progressive house DJ and was infinetely knowledgeable. The course was just the instructor, one other guy and me and for about 4 months we would have little jam sessions 2 or 3 times a week. I thought I was a fairly good DJ and knew my shit fairly well before enrolling but as it turns out, I learned SO much during this period it was almost unreal. My instructor helped me understand the dynamics of a set and helped me learn the intricacies of track selection and tune placement. He didnt tell me what to do at any point or fill my head up with nonsense, he made me learn these things for myself. He gave his suggestions and feedback, but never told me what record to play next or anything like that.

I owe a lot to him and the time I spent at the workstation and wouldn't be the same DJ I am today if it wasn't for that course and what I learned there. I became a DJ there.

In conclusion, there's a lot which needs to be learned by ones self, but having a mentor/instructor/guru to help you out and understand the bigger picture is very very helpful.

I went to Music School for 6 years. So besides playing cello and piano I took bunch of music theory classes. So from technical aspects I have no problem phrase matching etc.

I know for sure that helped me ALOT in udnerstanding trance and how songs usually structured and stuff. Never been do Djing school.

quote:

Originally posted by jacklodestar Using digital and mp3/CD's is like cheating.

i nearly pissed myself

quote:

Originally posted by jacklodestar Most CD players show BPM, and allow seamless looping as well as perfect cueing to the 1 or 4 beat so you can play the beat (as like a drum machine) and release it almost perfectly in syncronazation with the track playing that your planning to mix into. It makes it so that you don't have to learn how to control your hands and you don't have to master locking a beat quickly and efficiently. Think about it, that seamless looping feature that most digital decks have kinda defeats the purpose of having to be good at matching a beat, keeping it locked, and mixing it all in the space of 32-48 count into's and outro's. So yeah if you started on Digital gear and never learned the art of vinyl mixing or never converted to vinyl then your not gonna be as skilled as a vinyl dj. It's also frustrating as hell to see some digital guy nail a mix with almost no effort at all and then the ignorant audience just assumes that all dj'ing is same and expect a vinyl jock to do the same thing not knowing how much more effort and precision is needed to consistently sound perfect on turntables as opposed to digital gear. So yeah it is like cheating,...it wouldn't be so bad if people respected vinyl dj's more than digital dj's,...because it's an issue of difficulty and the skills that are needed are on a completely different level.

i started on vinyl ive since tried out some cd decks and got hang of it pretty quick. My mate however started on cd decks and at my house went on my vinyl and got the hang of it pretty quick. If anything vinyl is more annoying to play cds just cut out the crap thats all its pretty much the same no matter what you use.

Getting really good at spinning vinyl is much more difficult than spinning CD's. You really have to master riding the pitch, whereas you really don't need to learn that skill with CD's.

Making corrections to a mix with CDJ's is cake in comparison to riding the pitch (which you COULD do using CDJ's, but I just don't see many people doing it).

I like both for different reasons, but playing out I feel more comfortable on CDJ's.

quote:

Originally posted by sleepydragon i started on vinyl ive since tried out some cd decks and got hang of it pretty quick. My mate however started on cd decks and at my house went on my vinyl and got the hang of it pretty quick. If anything vinyl is more annoying to play cds just cut out the crap thats all its pretty much the same no matter what you use.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Mr Mystery - where are you from? I thought you were from the UK once, now I'm not so sure. Jarv

Yes, hovering your mouse pointer over a flag IS hard.

And I'm still laughing at the guy thinking CDJ's and other digital stuff is cheating.

"Look at me, I started when I was 10, 23 now.. yada yada yada.."

Beatmatching isn't even 10% of the game.

quote:

Originally posted by basd Beatmatching isn't even 10% of the game.

exactly. without a proper crowdreading or trackselection, your stellar beatmatching isn't going to help you.

Look I'm not going to re-post my explanation why I'm against digital media from another thread but I'll just concied that I'm extreamily & unreasonably biased towards digital and in favor of vinyl reguardless of the argument. Maybe I'm just old skool,...it also has to with the fact I'm a turntablist and our creed is minimalism. Yes if you just use vinyl and a two channel battle mixer you limit your capablities to be more creative but it's a belief and it's true the less you use equipment wise the better you have to be musicly and skillfully. Just to give you guys an idea I won't even use EQ when mixing. I'm a minimalist and congregate around other minimalists. I started out on a uri rottary knob console and two technics 1200 mk's not mkII but the original mk's with that thick ass platter. For me I grew up as a DJ. Both of my parents were DJ's and I became one as well. I didn't run around playin power rangers or what have you like some of you did when you were 10 y/o I DJ'ed and still do so forgive me for my narrow mindedness when it comes to vinyl vs. digital. Because of that theres a passion and love for vinyl and the art of battle DJ'ing,...I won't use CD's/mp3's because I'm used to scratching and beat-juggling and I can do so with digital media but it takes away from the magic that's all.

Hey jacklodestar, I'm curious to know your view on equipment like Serato and Final Scratch?, apart from taking away the magic of real vinyl (which I'm sure you would mention).

Yes poly vinyl chloride is SOOOOOO MAGICAL! BWAHAHA Give me a break.

Lol. The only magic that vinyl has is that it acted as a great filter. It takes dedication, skill, a lot of practice, and a lot of money to be a vinyl only DJ.

I guess you could look at that as being either good or bad.

quote:

Originally posted by Zild Yes poly vinyl chloride is SOOOOOO MAGICAL! BWAHAHA Give me a break.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery There actually are DJ schools?

Yeah,

I thought it was pretty ridiculous.


I think DJ schools are stupid.

Learn about the music or the layout of a track if you must. Know what the bare essentials are, if you must. But in the end, it's you that needs to be able to do it.

Learn it urself, go the hard path, and be creative and do mistakes.

That's what life is about.

quote:

Originally posted by jacklodestar Look I'm not going to re-post my explanation why I'm against digital media from another thread but I'll just concied that I'm extreamily & unreasonably biased towards digital and in favor of vinyl reguardless of the argument. Maybe I'm just old skool,...it also has to with the fact I'm a turntablist and our creed is minimalism. Yes if you just use vinyl and a two channel battle mixer you limit your capablities to be more creative but it's a belief and it's true the less you use equipment wise the better you have to be musicly and skillfully. Just to give you guys an idea I won't even use EQ when mixing. I'm a minimalist and congregate around other minimalists. I started out on a uri rottary knob console and two technics 1200 mk's not mkII but the original mk's with that thick ass platter. For me I grew up as a DJ. Both of my parents were DJ's and I became one as well. I didn't run around playin power rangers or what have you like some of you did when you were 10 y/o I DJ'ed and still do so forgive me for my narrow mindedness when it comes to vinyl vs. digital. Because of that theres a passion and love for vinyl and the art of battle DJ'ing,...I won't use CD's/mp3's because I'm used to scratching and beat-juggling and I can do so with digital media but it takes away from the magic that's all.

Okay that's crossing the line. If you want to stick to the most minimal of equipment, have at it. But don't try to say that it means you are more talented. You might be a skilled turntablist, but as many here (yourself included) have mentioned technical skill only goes so far. DJ Craze might be fun to watch, but musically I couldn't give a shit. Furthermore, there are so many things that you can do with digital setups that is simply impossible to do otherwise. Take this video for example. That's just some basic Ableton stuff and it's still absolutely impossible for you to ever do. Pull your head out of your ass and evolve.

DJing is about passion for music and creating something new. You seem to have lost sight of that. There's no magic in a vinyl record. There's magic in the music that it contains, and what you can do with that music, how you present it to people. The fact that you started playing when you were ten, as cool as that is, means jack shit . It's no excuse for you to be a narrow-minded, elitist asshole. The rest of us have passion too. You remind me of the old people who say shit like "back in my day we had to walk ten miles to school, uphill both ways and through five feet of snow!" Get fucked.


Edit: Just for the record, so you can't try to give me some bullshit, I play on (and always have played on) vinyl.

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