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Originally posted by Dj Smitty20 I own over 90 cd's and recently sold my vinyl collection of about 78 records. I support my artists but I still download the odd track if I really, really want to listen to it. For instance, I remembered that Porno - Music Power track from a couple years ago after hearing it on Saturday night again. Where else am I supposed to get this track? I looked on ITunes and didnt' find it. And i'm certainly not going to buy the LP for something i'll listen to for a few days and then most likely delete. But I figure I've given a lot to the industry, at least compared to most people. Certainly guys like Tiesto, PvD adn Ferry have done well off me but I also own 2 Mark Oliver CD's, Sander's albums, etc. But you know, I have to be honest. THe music industry fucked themselves by pricing their cd's at 30-40 dollars while the artist actually sees very little of that. That's what you call corporate greed.

The music stores are laregly to blame for the inflated cost. Record labels are cutting them a deal and they still jack the price to 20 bucks. Retailers have really got to get with it IMO

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Originally posted by geroin as much illegal downloading hurts the industry in a lot of cases it actually helps it survive Musicians do not make a lot of money of their tracks or albums, usually its the companies/labels that make most off the sales. Artists make most money when they actually travel and perform at concerts/gigs. Downloading music is what actually spreads the word about that particular artist. There are a lot of artist whom i would have never known if i did not download their tracks. Obviously it does not make it right but i find it humorous when people tell me to buy every single track that i want to hear. Yes i do buy tracks but only after i decide that yes i really like this artist and yes this track/album is worth it. It is much better now since the arrival of myspace because now you do not need to download the tracks illegaly in most cases but you can actually listen to tracks on there.

actually thats wrong. The artist gets a loan from the record label. that loan must be paid back in full by sales before the artist recieves one cent. And in the past that was easy to achieve. The artist made a bundle and so did the label in return for the risk investment that they placed into the artist.

These days many artists cant pay back the full amount which means the label loses money and the artist gets diddley squat. Yes the mega stars get the bucks still but even the moderately successful artists are struggling.

Appearances make many artists much less than youd think.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 The music stores are laregly to blame for the inflated cost. Record labels are cutting them a deal and they still jack the price to 20 bucks. Retailers have really got to get with it IMO

100% agreed. It is so hard to find non-mainstream crap in most major retail chains ie. HMV, Best Buy, Futureshop. Even when you do find a gem (Sasha & John Digweed @ Renaissance 10 Year Anniversary 3 disc)... $45.99!?

quote:

Originally posted by Porky can it be the other way around? with viral marketing from music oriented websites like myspace, alot of underground artists have gotten greater exposure that they wouldn't have gotten otherwise in a traditional non-digital bricks+mortar scheme the bottom line... if you're talented, and produce good music, ppl will find you. if you suck, then you won't make money.

Is that what you tell yourself when you're downloading copyrighted music?

and this thread as been brought to you by RIAA and others

quote:

Originally posted by devnull and this thread as been brought to you by RIAA and others

others being the artists

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Originally posted by Jayx1 actually thats wrong. The artist gets a loan from the record label. that loan must be paid back in full by sales before the artist recieves one cent. And in the past that was easy to achieve. The artist made a bundle and so did the label in return for the risk investment that they placed into the artist. These days many artists cant pay back the full amount which means the label loses money and the artist gets diddley squat. Yes the mega stars get the bucks still but even the moderately successful artists are struggling. Appearances make many artists much less than youd think.

Just pointing out that in electronic music the artist getting a 'loan' from the record label is generally false (except for in the case of remixes).

the music industry needs to be re-structured. let the market work itself out

musicians have been poor for ages, whose to say they deserve a doller?

ths sad part is that when we do decide to purchase an album or support these artists through other means, at the end of the day the record label is who really gets the money. this is completely fucking wrong and until they fix this I AINT BUYIN SHIT


jayx1 you mention that whole 100k they have to pay that is a loan, i suggest you look further into that, its a fuckin crime what they force these musicians to do in order to put out an album

i wonder if these stats were news to anyone...I will continue to keep getting my music whichever way keeps my finances afloat.

I download and if I like I see the DJ/Artist when they put on a show. We all know artists make the most out of touring.

quote:

Originally posted by TranceGrooves Yes you are absolutly right Jay. Illegal downloading of albums and singles and stuff is something that has been hurting not only the EDM industry but the music industry in general. If you like it please go and buy it. Support those that support you. It is one thing to download the sample of an album or maybe even a full album just to see if you like it but downloading it because it is a freebie and you dont wanna spend the cash is totally different. If these artists stop making the music just imagine what impact it will have on the industry.

I would download the album and also buy a copy of the Album...The one I buy is never open, since i do not want to scratch the hell of it...

quote:

Originally posted by Shade Just pointing out that in electronic music the artist getting a 'loan' from the record label is generally false (except for in the case of remixes).

not always true. Albums are very expensive as are hiring a remixer. If you are just going to drop a single without a music video then yes it gets cheaper. But the artist still makes very very little as compared to the past.

For example, a song on a small label that would get a 5000 record/cd press in the past might press 500-1000 today. Even on digital downloads the spread is not as good. Now factor in the fact that 3/4 of downloads are illegal and you get the picture.

Its not a pretty sight. Trust me guys, a buck or two is not a lot to ask in order to ensure that we keep the music coming.

quote:

Originally posted by Flec the music industry needs to be re-structured. let the market work itself out musicians have been poor for ages, whose to say they deserve a doller? ths sad part is that when we do decide to purchase an album or support these artists through other means, at the end of the day the record label is who really gets the money. this is completely fucking wrong and until they fix this I AINT BUYIN SHIT jayx1 you mention that whole 100k they have to pay that is a loan, i suggest you look further into that, its a fuckin crime what they force these musicians to do in order to put out an album

dont worry about my figures. They are very accurate trust me

It costs A LOT of money to pay for rights, distribution, shelf space, video production, album art etc etc.

As i said the dance single guys dont have a lot of those costs but they still don't get much for all the time that goes into a piece of work.

Like i said, at a buck or two, no excuse in the world will justify stealing music.

quote:

Originally posted by mizza318 I download and if I like I see the DJ/Artist when they put on a show. We all know artists make the most out of touring.

in 2006 you are correct. In 1998 you would have been for the most part, incorrect.

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Originally posted by Clublifexxx I would download the album and also buy a copy of the Album...The one I buy is never open, since i do not want to scratch the hell of it...

thats a whole different story altogether.

The idea is to pay for what you own. And if you are doing this then IMO you have already done your share.

ughh get an avatar already noob. god...

so you are against all other forms of control...... errr hypocrite?

hmmm ok so let me be the 1st

i will almost never buy anything i can find for free.

and i dont feel bad for artists, big deal instead of 100milion they only make 99milion.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 actually thats wrong. The artist gets a loan from the record label. that loan must be paid back in full by sales before the artist recieves one cent. And in the past that was easy to achieve. The artist made a bundle and so did the label in return for the risk investment that they placed into the artist. These days many artists cant pay back the full amount which means the label loses money and the artist gets diddley squat. Yes the mega stars get the bucks still but even the moderately successful artists are struggling. Appearances make many artists much less than youd think.

are we talking about the electronic/dance artists and producers here?

if you're not making a music video, and are just putting together a single or a remix, your costs are minimal, and aside from your time invested in this and money invested in some equipment (and don't tell me a PC loaded with some productions software and plugins costs $100K either), you don't have to worry much about costs to begin with.

hell, you can even start your own label and sell your own music on Beatport for nothing. ZERO.

and the good old saying goes here as well - the better music you make, the more people will be interested in it and the more people will buy it. you make shit music, you don't get paid. simple, but effective

also, I'd like to add the notion that necessity is a mother of invention... and for so many of these artists that are finding themselves struggling to make a buck it might be a much better idea to look into ways of reinventing themselves, their approach to making music/videos, marketing themselves and spreading the word, etc. Ever heard of "guerrilla marketing"? There are so many ways bands/artists/producers could come up with to cut their costs and maximize profits, instead of complaining about something they REALLY have no control of, such as illegal downloading.

You can come up with all kinds of dumbass limiting laws, but people will always be people, and will find a way to bypass those laws and get their shit for free

quote:

Originally posted by Cro_Addict hmmm ok so let me be the 1st i will almost never buy anything i can find for free. and i dont feel bad for artists, big deal instead of 100milion they only make 99milion.

let me be the 2nd one, and add my name to that "i don't buy anything i can find for free" list.

sure, i buy a few tracks on beatport that i really like and can't find on soulseek or something like that (time invested into searching for these elsewhere is not worth it compared to $1-2 spent right there on Beatport or whatever).

but then again, just like so many of you here (regular joe blow or a big name local DJs - you know who you are, you bastards), if I can find something for free, I won't bother paying for it

evolution, baby... improvements in technology, etc... you whiney asses, get along with the program and start making better music that will actually make me feel bad for NOT paying for it. And once I see/hear value in a piece of music (oh, I can appreciate a good tune or a mix CD), I'll gladly spend money on it. Otherwise, dear artists, stop whining cuz you have no reason to, really, and you've got no one to blame but yourself

quote:

Originally posted by Euphorica so you are against all other forms of control...... errr hypocrite?

being against social engineering government control vs against stealing..

they are 2 different issues altogether

quote:

Originally posted by Crazy Serb are we talking about the electronic/dance artists and producers here? if you're not making a music video, and are just putting together a single or a remix, your costs are minimal, and aside from your time invested in this and money invested in some equipment (and don't tell me a PC loaded with some productions software and plugins costs $100K either), you don't have to worry much about costs to begin with. hell, you can even start your own label and sell your own music on Beatport for nothing. ZERO. and the good old saying goes here as well - the better music you make, the more people will be interested in it and the more people will buy it. you make shit music, you don't get paid. simple, but effective also, I'd like to add the notion that necessity is a mother of invention... and for so many of these artists that are finding themselves struggling to make a buck it might be a much better idea to look into ways of reinventing themselves, their approach to making music/videos, marketing themselves and spreading the word, etc. Ever heard of "guerrilla marketing"? There are so many ways bands/artists/producers could come up with to cut their costs and maximize profits, instead of complaining about something they REALLY have no control of, such as illegal downloading. You can come up with all kinds of dumbass limiting laws, but people will always be people, and will find a way to bypass those laws and get their shit for free let me be the 2nd one, and add my name to that "i don't buy anything i can find for free" list. sure, i buy a few tracks on beatport that i really like and can't find on soulseek or something like that (time invested into searching for these elsewhere is not worth it compared to $1-2 spent right there on Beatport or whatever). but then again, just like so many of you here (regular joe blow or a big name local DJs - you know who you are, you bastards), if I can find something for free, I won't bother paying for it evolution, baby... improvements in technology, etc... you whiney asses, get along with the program and start making better music that will actually make me feel bad for NOT paying for it. And once I see/hear value in a piece of music (oh, I can appreciate a good tune or a mix CD), I'll gladly spend money on it. Otherwise, dear artists, stop whining cuz you have no reason to, really, and you've got no one to blame but yourself

even if the song costs NOTHING to produce (and it never does) the point is that stealing music with the excuse that its too expensive (which is the one everyone uses) does not wash anymore.

Even an EDM tune takes a lot of time, and equipment. Not to mention the sample clearances that cost money. Then throw in the mastering costs and the egineering costs. Remember that most musicians/artists are NOT professional sound engineers. Lastly The remixers that need to get paid. etc. You are still looking at roughly 5000-10,000 to produce a track (unless you just run a drum machine loop on your computer but i dont call that music do you?)

So there are REAL costs out there that need to be paid. And at a buck a track there is NO excuse to steal.


PS many many many EDM tracks do have videos. They just dont show them in canada.

The buck a song thing that you're touting here is kind of a ripoff because you're paying $1 for something you can get for free, and the two things are identical (the .mp3 file). So an album costs $15 to download online, and all you get is a bunch of mp3s? I have mp3s. Tons of them. If I buy something, I want something a little more concrete than just 1s and 0s encoded on my hard drive, thanks.

There's no way in hell I'm paying that much for fucking data. If i buy something, I want an actual CD. Case in point: Digital Blonde - Synthology. I LOVE this album. But it was never released as a hard copy (I've looked), so my option is to pay $17 for the mp3s which I already have. Thanks, but no thanks. But even after all this online downloading debacle, they're still ripping us off. Whenever I go into HMV, I'm hard pressed to find anything under $25. Not to mention their selection sucks ass anyway (yeah, I'll pay $35 for Ultra Cheese Trance Volume 2 released a couple of years ago, suuuure).

You say,
"It costs A LOT of money to pay for rights, distribution, shelf space, video production, album art etc etc."
Here's what I propose: get rid of all that crap. Nobody (except RIAA of course) needs it. Get rid of RIAA (a lot of good it's doing everybody - only thing they're concerned with is getting rich). Get rid of record stores and their retarded markups. Eliminate all but the most basic things needed by the labels to produce CDs, and sell them strictly online and ship them to customers. The whole music industry needs restructuring. If they laxed all these restrictions on selling your own music, actual CDs would become affordable to buy.

And lastly, you can bitch and whine about music industry dying, but fact of the matter is, this summer alone I've spent a few thousand going to clubs. Thanks to the Internet, I now like more genres than I can shake a stick at. And the artists of those genres all reached into my pocket and took out a little bit everytime I've went to see them live. I don't have any more disposable income left to be buying all the CDs I *kinda* like.

I totally agree that the hard copy distribution needs to be rethought. No arguing there.

But saying that paying $1 for "something you can get for free" doesnt work.

In theory you can get anything you want for free by stealing it. So does that mean you can or should?

Art in a digital form is still art and still a product that is for sale. By taking it any other way it is stealing.

I have no trouble getting anything i want online.


But i agree that record stores in the real world need better selection and better prices to win back customers. But online right now is a whole other story.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur You say, "It costs A LOT of money to pay for rights, distribution, shelf space, video production, album art etc etc." Here's what I propose: get rid of all that crap. Nobody (except RIAA of course) needs it. Get rid of RIAA (a lot of good it's doing everybody - only thing they're concerned with is getting rich). Get rid of record stores and their retarded markups. Eliminate all but the most basic things needed by the labels to produce CDs, and sell them strictly online and ship them to customers. The whole music industry needs restructuring. If they laxed all these restrictions on selling your own music, actual CDs would become affordable to buy.

word up.

a little reinvention never hurt anyone

plus what good is paying for all the rights, trademarks, legal mumbo jumbo when your track will ultimately end up on internet in digital format and a whole bunch of people will download/share it for free anyway? why not cut those costs as well?

what was that online store where you had 3 pricing options for EVERY SONG/ALBUM on the site - free, the store's set price, and your own custom set price (whatever you thought the song/album was worth).

I thought that was goddamn genius! And they sure made enough money too...

Edit: Double post, sorry.

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