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-- A Letter To Sonic's Team....
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quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 And to top it off, they are blaming "other establishment(s)" for their failure on getting proper licensing... CLASSIC!

i dont know anything about this situation at all but i do know that when when clubs apply for licences it becomes public domain with the opportunity for others to object. And object they usually do. And in most cases its the competition who objects.

Thats the way it is with our communist style antiquated liquor licencing system in ontario.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker To be honest - I liked Sonic's original format: Bring top quality DJs

yea but thats the thing ... they werent doing that on saturdays



imo of course

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Originally posted by tarrantella66 AMEN! But it's obvious that the mixed format did bother many of the straight patrons, and that's why Sonic's management started talking about a so-called "crisis identity"..

I find it hard to believe that the mixed format was a serious enough issue with so many patrons that it turned into a "crisis". This is an afterhours club and there's a long history of afterhours clubs in Toronto where the gay community has played an important and visible role. Nothing new here, really.

Apart from a few twits that go on messageboards and complain about a dozen or so shirtless dudes "sweating" out of several hundred patrons(which is laughable in its insignificance), I've never heard that there was a problem.

I like the mixed format. It's good for the community. It gets gays out of their ghettoized environment and builds relationships. Some people will never be comfortable in mixed environments and that's fine, there's lots of other clubs out there.

The good music will always bring out the true heads and keep the scene vibrant. The scene should be about the music first. Those that are fussed about sexual orientation should find a different home.

Re: It's all about diversity...

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 I suppose we can only blame the promotions team for being unable to bring a crowd who can tolerate others and their differences to build up an interesting crowd.

Ok buddy.

I don't mind an "interesting" crowd at all. I can also tolerate others and their differences. I have gay friends, I have attended Pride for the past 2 years, and have been to many events that were predominantly gay.

HOWEVER, before Demi, the last 3 or 4 times in a row I had been to Sonic, I was in a sea of shirtless men. That is not what I call a "diverse" crowd. That is what I call a gay crowd. I have been to more parties where the crowd has been predominantly gay than not. As a straight male, I do not want to go to gay parties. I want to go to parties where there are girls, and where I am not being hit on so often by other men. I am also tired of tribal/circuit DJs. I'm glad that all of the shirtless men and tribal/circuit music has been moved to another night.

It's not like gays aren't allowed to go to Sonic saturdays, and I think it's pretty safe to say that the night will be gay friendly.

Before this announcement of a change of format was made, I had almost had enough of Sonic. This is a much needed new breath of fresh air.

Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by tarrantella66 I suppose we can only blame the promotions team for being unable to bring a crowd who can tolerate others and their differences to build up an interesting crowd.

Laying blame is a dangerous game and a road that we should try not to go down. Sonic is a great club and I'm really thankful that we have something like it in Toronto.

It is a little disappointing that to deal with audience composition concerns the club took the "easy way out" and started a gay themed night on Friday.

There are many, many ways to alter audience composition - I wish they would have tried everything before starting the Friday. Maybe I am naive but there had to have been a different way to address it.

So as it stands we have:
- a Saturday night party - friendly to everybody (not sexual preference oriented)
- a Friday night party - friendly to gays (sexual preference oriented)

I'm disappointed that Calderone (one of my favorite DJ's) plays on a Friday. The night isn't unfriendly to straight folk - but it isn't meant for them either. At least having the big DJ on a Saturday night makes it friendly for all. Try to have the big DJs on Saturdays - because I'll be at Sonic for many Saturdays to come.

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Originally posted by van haaster The good music will always bring out the true heads and keep the scene vibrant. The scene should be about the music first. Those that are fussed about sexual orientation should find a different home.

Sure, music is important, but it's not the only factor at play. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker Please have the big DJs on Saturdays.

There are big DJs on Saturdays. Except now, they're not the same circuit/tribal DJs that we've heard too many times already.

Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by The Highroller Ok buddy. I don't mind an "interesting" crowd at all. I can also tolerate others and their differences. I have gay friends, I have attended Pride for the past 2 years, and have been to many events that were predominantly gay. HOWEVER, before Demi, the last 3 or 4 times in a row I had been to Sonic, I was in a sea of shirtless men. That is not what I call a "diverse" crowd. That is what I call a gay crowd. I have been to more parties where the crowd has been predominantly gay than not. As a straight male, I do not want to go to gay parties. I want to go to parties where there are girls, and where I am not being hit on so often by other men. I am also tired of tribal/circuit DJs. I'm glad that all of the shirtless men and tribal/circuit music has been moved to another night. It's not like gays aren't allowed to go to Sonic saturdays, and I think it's pretty safe to say that the night will be gay friendly. Before this announcement of a change of format was made, I had almost had enough of Sonic. This is a much needed new breath of fresh air.

absolutely agreed

Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by The Highroller Ok buddy. I don't mind an "interesting" crowd at all. I can also tolerate others and their differences. I have gay friends, I have attended Pride for the past 2 years, and have been to many events that were predominantly gay.

I know Graham and I am gay - RESPECT to you buddy we have had some good time and talks

Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by The Highroller Ok buddy. As a straight male, I do not want to go to gay parties. I want to go to parties where there are girls, and where I am not being hit on so often by other men.

I guess that says it all about you...
And you must be SMOKING HOT that you get "HIT ON SO OFTEN" by other men.

quote:

Originally posted by van haaster It gets gays out of their ghettoized environment

lol wtf

Re: Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

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Originally posted by tarrantella66 I guess that says it all about you... And you must be SMOKING HOT that you get "HIT ON SO OFTEN" by other men.

i don't know about him but i do get hit on and to be quite honest i don't like it.
if you attend a gay party other patrons automatically assume that you're gay also
i think it's common sense

quote:

Originally posted by The Highroller HOWEVER, before Demi, the last 3 or 4 times in a row I had been to Sonic, I was in a sea of shirtless men. That is not what I call a "diverse" crowd. That is what I call a gay crowd. I have been to more parties where the crowd has been predominantly gay than not. As a straight male, I do not want to go to gay parties. I want to go to parties where there are girls, and where I am not being hit on so often by other men. I am also tired of tribal/circuit DJs. I'm glad that all of the shirtless men and tribal/circuit music has been moved to another night. .

hmmm... I guess I was there on different nights than you, because gays have definitely been in the minority anytime I've been to sonic. Last time was thanksgiving and it was maybe 20% visibly gay.

I can understand how it could be uncomfortable to be immersed in a predominantly gay crowd, getting hit on constantly, especially if you don't want it.

quote:

Originally posted by van haaster hmmm... I guess I was there on different nights than you, because gays have definitely been in the minority anytime I've been to sonic.

Say wha? you mustve spent your night in the ladies washroom

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Originally posted by The Wiz Say wha? you mustve spent your night in the ladies washroom

sorry I had to

Now that the club has had the opportunity to post the press release sent out to the media earlier today, allow me to give you some insight as to what went down this past weekend.

First, I will point out that no one was more dissapointed by what took place on Friday night than the management of the club.

To keep things simple...the club had everything in order...we were unable to open our doors as we had a visit from the AGCO at 9:30 PM on Friday night. The reason for their visit, an anonymous envelope showed up in their offices on Friday morning with one of our posters (which was obviously ripped off of a pole somewhere as it had tape all over it) along with an anonymous note questioning how we were serving liquor if we are an after hours. As the press release stated, we are not pointing any fingers at anyone and will allow you to form your own opinions. Unforutately, the AGCO found reason to disallow the caterer supply the food and liquor to serve that night as they fined them for an infraction. The AGCO did have the power to prevent us from opening on Friday night completely, however they were very happy with how the club handled the situation and decided to let us open without liquor.

Once all of the liquor was cleared from the floor we were given the green light to open and notified everyone in line of the changes as soon as we knew what was going to happen.

As a gesture, the club is going to be handing out free passes to the December 9th event to the first 500 poeple showing up to the club this Friday, and will also accept any unredeemed Grand Opening comp tickets on December 9th.

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 Very sad to see that nobody in management took the time to secure a license for an event where alcohol was to be served.

Very sad that you would make an assumption like this...so sad that I may as well turn around and assume that it was you that sent that letter to the AGCO...I mean come on really.

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 Even sadder is the fact that the music (which is supposed to be what SONIC is all about) was at best, MEDIOCRE. Whoever buys talent needs to seriously reconsider his/her reasons for booking these 3 DJ's because they simply SUCKED (the last DJ who played was a bit better, but still...). Are these supposed to be the RESIDENTS on friday nights? DJ's shouldn't be booked because "they are local and we trying to support local TALENT": They should be booked because indeed they have talent.

I am the lucky guy that purchases all of the talent for Saturday nights at Sonic and all of the international guests for OPEN Friday's. Let me tell you, it is impossible to keep everyone happy. This past Saturday night (when I thought the music was as cutting edge and at its best) I had a regular customer come up and tell me that they enjoyed Friday night much better. While music is a very subjective topic...just curious what makes you decide if someone has talent or not...by all means, tell me somone sucks...but at least back it up...no where in your review about the music were you able to even explain why you thought the talent sucked. Was it the mixing? The programming? Was it the flow from each DJ to the next? At least give me something. Although I didn't hand pick the local talent, I did approve all of them. Did you stop to think that maybe based on all of the stress and drama created over what happened that everyone's mood may have been a bit off? I mean you mention STEREO in one of your posts...you seem to respect STEREO...well, one of the 3 DJ's has frequented STEREO as a guest DJ and has also played BLACK & BLUE...would that mean anything to you had you known that in advance? It was also the first night, and all 3 residents were scheduled to play 2 hours each...they ended up only playing an hour a twenty minutes each...kind of hard to do much in such a short period of time...not to mention it was the first time all 3 of them played together.

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 Even sadder is the fact that the music (which is supposed to be what SONIC is all about) was at best, MEDIOCRE.

So answer me this...if we did a hip hop night on Friday's...would that make us less about music not? In my opinion it would...but that is just because I don't like hip hop...but just because a club has a night where I don't agree with the music do I decide to hate on it. A business has a right to survive in any way it sees fit. If you don't like Friday's, please continue to join us on Saturday's...the music has only been getting better every week...at least I think so.

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 How about taking a chance and treating the gay crowd with more respect and in a less condescending way.

Please do tell more. We at Sonic welcome the gay crowd with OPEN arms both Friday's and Saturday nights.

quote:

Originally posted by tarrantella66 Treat ALL YOUR CUSTOMERS with respect.

Once again, please do tell more and let us know how we can improve upon our customer service...we want nothing but the best for our customers and would like to know how you or any other guests were disrespected.

Now, also curious, but did you have any suggestions? I hear lots of problems presented but no solutions. The club always has an open ear and listens to everything that our customers have to say.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker To be honest - I liked Sonic's original format: Bring top quality DJs and throw a great party for EVERYBODY. The audience composition of the original Saturday night parties did not bother me, nor did I ever have a night ruined. The "Saturday night Sonic product offer" was very clear to everybody who went to the club.

Hey RJ, hope you are well. This will continue on...the only difference is that we will save the circuit music for Friday's. Nothing really has changed, accept we have added a night specifically dedicated to the gay market on Friday's. Saturday's will stay open to those of all walks of life.

awesome reply, carey.

It seems the issue of gay patrons at Toronto clubs ends up being the topic of discussion everytime one of these threads gets started.

I thought I would add my two cents!

I think the ideal is that we have one scene, everyone welcome...and I think we are moving in that direction...but Sonic did have a problem...and they needed to address it, and we are not evolved to the point of being ready, completely, neither gay nor straight.

I am a regualr at the club. I have not missed many nights since the opening. I think I am safely planted in both communities...I attend with my boyfriend and a host of straight friends each week.

I think there have been MANY nights, mostly with the big name talent, that have been very well attended by the gay crowd. The club started to get a reputation...the straight boys did not come because there were no girls there for them and the girls did not come becasue all the boys were gay. I heard it over and over....

Interestingly...the same comments were made by some of my gay friends...I finally got one gay friend to come to Sonic over Pride weekend for Morales' Peep Show...when I asked him what he thought...he said "I did not like it, because I could not tell who was gay and I did not know who to hit on".

While I long for the day that Halycon describes, where "people" go for the talent, the music, the friends, we still have some way to go..on both sides.

As a businessman...if I were running Sonic, I would have made the same decision. The reality is that there are very few choices for gay men these days, they need another venue...and Sonic is filling the void.

I think they had some opening night problems...problems they should not have had...I also think they could do a lot better than some of the DJ choices they have made for "Open"...but the market will sort that out.

Whether some of us like it or not...the stereotypical gay crap we hate...like drag and gogo boys and shower shows, still has a following and a market...I would invite all of you who have moved on from this to join my friends and I on Saturday nights at Sonic...you won't catch me there on a Friday...

Oh and one last thing...Graham (The Highroller)...he IS smokin'hot!

Re: Re: It's all about diversity...

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker - a Friday night party - friendly to gays (sexual preference oriented) I'm disappointed that Calderone (one of my favorite DJ's) plays on a Friday. The night isn't unfriendly to straight folk - but it isn't meant for them either. At least having the big DJ on a Saturday night makes it friendly for all. Try to have the big DJs on Saturdays - because I'll be at Sonic for many Saturdays to come.

Although the marketing of the Friday's is geared towards the gay market we are in no way suggesting that straight people stay away. Like Highroller mentioned, there have been nights where the dance floor has been a sea of gay shirtless men. If this doesn't bother you then there should be no reason from stopping you from seeing you favourite DJ.

You have known me long enough to know what I have been very successful and booking and promoting as a straight promoter and believe me...I have tons of straight friends coming on Friday night...both men and women.

quote:

Originally posted by The Wiz Say wha? you mustve spent your night in the ladies washroom

well you obviously haven't been to a gay party... or you would know that the ladies washroom is the nerve centre of the whole place!

quote:

Originally posted by Carey

great post

quote:

Originally posted by fairy godfather It seems the issue of gay patrons at Toronto clubs ends up being the topic of discussion everytime one of these threads gets started. I thought I would add my two cents! I think the ideal is that we have one scene, everyone welcome...and I think we are moving in that direction...but Sonic did have a problem...and they needed to address it, and we are not evolved to the point of being ready, completely, neither gay nor straight. I am a regualr at the club. I have not missed many nights since the opening. I think I am safely planted in both communities...I attend with my boyfriend and a host of straight friends each week. I think there have been MANY nights, mostly with the big name talent, that have been very well attended by the gay crowd. The club started to get a reputation...the straight boys did not come becasue there were no girls there for them and the girls did not come becasue all the boys were gay. I heard it over and over.... Interestingly...the same comments were made by some of my gay friends...I finally got one gay friend to come to Sonic over Pride weekend for Morales' Peep Show...when I asked him what he thought...he said "I did not like it, because I could not tell who was gay and I did not know who to hit on". While I long for the day that Halycon describes, where "people" go for the talent, the music, the friends, we still have some way to go..on both sides. As a businessman...if I were running Sonic, I would have made the same decision. The reality is that there are very few choices for gay men these days, they need another venue...and Sonic is filling the void. I think they had some opening night problems...problems they should not have had...I also think they could do a lot better than some of the DJ choices they have made for "Open"...but the market will sort that out. Whether some of us like it or not...the stereotypical gay crap we hate...like drag and gogo boys and shower shows, still has a following and a market...I would invite all of you who have moved on from this to join my friends and I on Saturday nights at Sonic...you won't catch me there on a Friday... Oh and one last thing...Graham (The Highroller)...he IS smokin'hot!

very well said daniel.

Thanks Daniel & Sean.

quote:

Originally posted by fairy godfather Whether some of us like it or not...the stereotypical gay crap we hate...like drag and gogo boys and shower shows, still has a following and a market...I would invite all of you who have moved on from this to join my friends and I on Saturday nights at Sonic...you won't catch me there on a Friday...

Totally agreed, saturday night is where it's at for those of us who have "moved on" and are going out for the music, No.1, as it should be.

good post.

I would like Sonic to turn it up a notch and book some really drop dead talent on an ongoing basis. I'd like Sonic to be the place to always count on really excellent music every saturday.

quote:

Originally posted by van haaster Totally agreed, saturday night is where it's at for those of us who have "moved on" and are going out for the music, No.1, as it should be. good post. I would like Sonic to turn it up a notch and book some really drop dead talent on an ongoing basis.

December is looking pretty fucking good for that if you ask me. I can't wait until December 16th with Guy Gerber & David Duriez. That's what I call cutting edge music!

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