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-- Kill the babies but save the pigs
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Originally posted by biznology tiesto14, youre just being a hypocrite by refusing OTHERS viewpoints while getting pissed that no one follows you. we got your point, you dont need to tear apart everones personal beliefs just because you dont think 'pro-life' should only be about abortion.

BRO who's beleifs did i tear apart...and if you dont like the talk dont look at the thread..dam all u do is tell me not to voice my opinion....you dont like..well KNOW WHAT..dont read it...its that simple

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Originally posted by biznology my question: do you practice what you preach?

YES

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Originally posted by tiesto14 BRO who's beleifs did i tear apart...and if you dont like the talk dont look at the thread..dam all u do is tell me not to voice my opinion....you dont like..well KNOW WHAT..dont read it...its that simple YES

well your second post on this page, in response to Lazgti's completely rips on his 'beliefs'. im not telling you NOT to state your opinion. this is supposed to be a DISCUSSION, but all you do is state the same shit over and over again. it just seems that you dont have anything new to add, just that you need to tell everyone how wrong they are. again, i dont give a shit what you say here, but try to be INFORMATIVE or OPEN to others idea, rather than just saying everything is wrong. i largely agreed with what Lazgti said, and i agree with many of your points as well...it just seems that you are overly defensive of everything that anyone says contrary to you. late/

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Originally posted by Lazgti Tiesto, I wasn't flaming you man...I wasn't even directing the post at you dude...

i know...we are having a discussion...jus cus we dont agree doesnt mean we should be mad at each other =)

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Originally posted by Lazgti in fact alot of bitches out there are being total sluts about things and basically looking at abortion as a way to have their cake and eat it too......

I disagree.....and abortion is a tramitic experience for a woman...and they go through alot of emotional and physical stress with the process...i am sure there are a FEW (very small percentage) that do use it as a way out..BUT the majority i dont think want to even think about going through one....most women, even though they have abortions, never wanted to get one...but they decided it would be better for themselves and the child to have it...

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Originally posted by Lazgti being irresponsible and then getting pregnant then tossing aside the child's right to live because she made a mistake...I say learn from mistakes.......

Thats a pretty harsh penalty for a mistake dont you think...sex is NOT a crime and mistakes do happen...we have all made mistakes of one kind...that doesnt mean we should pay for them all with a sever penalty...a baby is a LIFE not a sentence....for example...people shoudl wear their seat belts in their cars while driving...but if they dont do you think they deserve to die in a horrible car crash to pay for the mistake of not wearing the seatbelt even thought THEY KNEW it would have most likely saved their lives....OF COURSE not...

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Originally posted by Lazgti Funny that you made the point about the animals in Noah's Ark...what purpose was served by saving these creatures, so that when the rains ended, they would procreate and Noah and his descendents could have dominion over them...ie, live by having food and beasts to help them farm....

I always find it funny that God flooded the earth to rid the world of all the evil people and what have you...YET decided to save 2 of every animal...makes you think who God thought was more deserving of life at that time...maybe its because animals cause nowhere near the devastation on this world that people have doen in history and will continue to do till the end of all time...

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Originally posted by Lazgti Humans are naturally carnivores.......

Humans are naturally omnivores

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Originally posted by Lazgti However eating subordinate creatures is not cruel or morally wrong given its nature........

GUARANTEED 8 people out of 10 would not eat a cow if they had to chop off his head, drain his bllod then chop him up in little pieces..why because the minute they look at the beautiful animal they will feel bad...that also human nature...sorrow.

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Originally posted by Lazgti For someone to say that they should be allowed to abort their child is essentially saying that their life is more important than someone elses.........

Well why is that a human life is more valuable then say a chickens life??...do we not all coem from a family with a mother and a father..do we not all run and play..do we not all feel pain and stress..do we not all grow and mature...do we not all bleed red??

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Originally posted by biznology well your second post on this page, in response to Lazgti's completely rips on his 'beliefs'.

SHOW ME WHERE i ripped his beleifs....please show me...i dont see it

did you guys know that pigs have orgasmes that last for half an hour

interesting huh

interesting but this flaming is getting tired.

Personally, I think this whole argumement is based on the fact that the word "pro-life" is used to describe people that are against abortion. The whole abortion debate is clearly won by those that think abortion is wrong, but instead of accepting this deafeat and maybe reforming, we end up with new (but obviously ridiculous) arguments.

"If you eat meat, then you don't value life, so you can't think abortion is wrong." Please... this argument sucks.

Anyways, I got a lot of homework to do, and I don't feel like explaining "why this argument sucks" right now, because it's pretty self explanatory, and Lazgti is doing a good job here

PS: biznology, well said.

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Originally posted by Michael Russo whole abortion debate is clearly won by those that think abortion is wrong, but instead of accepting this deafeat and maybe reforming, we end up with new (but obviously ridiculous) arguments.

well actually its people who beleive in pro-choice that won...abortion is legal...

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Originally posted by Michael Russo "If you eat meat, then you don't value life, so you can't think abortion is wrong." Please... this argument sucks. Anyways, I got a lot of homework to do, and I don't feel like explaining "why this argument sucks" right now, because it's pretty self explanatory, and Lazgti is doing a good job here PS: biznology, well said.

I love how noone says to him that hes rude or flaming people by those remarks.,....Biz you have nothing to say to him about that,,,,LOL what a fucking joke.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is right...

And don't say that I don't know how to debate... read the andrea yates thread... something you obviously didn't do cause ppl on your own side were agreeing more with me than you.

Any btw, I already explained why the argument was bad before. But wait... it's gone now, cause you deleted the thread...

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Originally posted by Michael Russo Just because something is legal doesn't mean that it is right...

well u didnt day that...u said that your side won...thats simply not true...keep up your quest for it will lead you nowhere...abortion will remain legal....

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Originally posted by Michael Russo And don't say that I don't know how to debate... ...

show me where i said that....dont put words in my mouth

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Originally posted by tiesto14 I love how noone says to him that hes rude or flaming people by those remarks.,....Biz you have nothing to say to him about that,,,,LOL what a fucking joke.

honestly tiesto14? because i believe that im trying to make an attempt to NOT flame. this 'discussion' as you want to call it got quite convoluted until i didnt know if we were yelling at each other about veganism, abortion or religion. if you read the thread you can easily see that. its all just a debate on how you classify 'pro-life'.

i believe that you can be prolife and eat meat, if only because prolife in American political and legal context ONLY refers to abortion. if you want to save the animals, preach about being a vegetarian or vegan and stop confusing the terms. i can understand why you believe the term is confusing or stupid, but when looking at it logically i dont think that its as complicated as its possibly being portrayed here.

as for the eating meat issue, i KNOW that we dont need to. i KNOW that its healthier to not eat meat. i KNOW that if you have a big problem with killing feti you could possibly reevaluate your stance on animal slaughter. but i ALSO agree with Lazgti when he said:

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Eating meat is arguably necessary to survival...

because in america, in this day and age, being a vegetarian isnt always possible. meat is ingrained in our lives. do you think the poor have a choice over what they eat? a small bit, but not as much as we would all like to think. there are further debates including, well it COULD be cheaper to be vegan with a garden, etc. but then you get into a debate not just about wealth and choices, but access to resources. can the lower classes survive with gardens? do they have acces to growing land? do they even have access to the information one would normally consult when becoming a vegan? this goes beyond lower classes too. the ideal isnt always possible...late/

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Originally posted by biznology honestly tiesto14? because i believe that im trying to make an attempt to NOT flame. this 'discussion' as you want to call it got quite convoluted until i didnt know if we were yelling at each other about veganism, abortion or religion. if you read the thread you can easily see that. its all just a debate on how you classify 'pro-life'. i believe that you can be prolife and eat meat, if only because prolife in American political and legal context ONLY refers to abortion. if you want to save the animals, preach about being a vegetarian or vegan and stop confusing the terms. i can understand why you believe the term is confusing or stupid, but when looking at it logically i dont think that its as complicated as its possibly being portrayed here. as for the eating meat issue, i KNOW that we dont need to. i KNOW that its healthier to not eat meat. i KNOW that if you have a big problem with killing feti you could possibly reevaluate your stance on animal slaughter. but i ALSO agree with Lazgti when he said: because in america, in this day and age, being a vegetarian isnt always possible. meat is ingrained in our lives. do you think the poor have a choice over what they eat? a small bit, but not as much as we would all like to think. there are further debates including, well it COULD be cheaper to be vegan with a garden, etc. but then you get into a debate not just about wealth and choices, but access to resources. can the lower classes survive with gardens? do they have acces to growing land? do they even have access to the information one would normally consult when becoming a vegan? this goes beyond lower classes too. the ideal isnt always possible...late/

WELL SAID......

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Originally posted by tiesto14 .....but i am sure you would figure that out if you werent jus trying to be a prick.

Nice, do u call everyone a prick that disagrees or makes a different point to u ?

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Originally posted by tiesto14 so either dont call yourselves pro-lifers or dont contradict your seleves and eat meat and say abortion is wrong....they are very similar....

How u made that connection is totally beyond me, if there is any connection at all to be made in that, then it should be that people have the freedom of choice.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 and if your going to say humans are more superior and benefit the world better then animals cus we as humans do remarkeble things...well that is total bullshit...we as humans do more harm and destruction to this world then any animal in history....

Humans are the superior race, FACT ! At least we as Humans have come to realise that we have done damage to this planet and are now working on the whole to recitfy that damage, we have learnt from our mistakes, we have learnt from our science and technology and we have done this in far less time than natural evolution could do for us.
Some Animals are more destructive in thier nature than you can imagine, take locust's as an example and how they can lay waste to acres of farmyard quicker than the most sophisticated machinery could do.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 And when it comes down to it...then end of the world will be do to HUMAN actions...

I very much doubt that, if anything Human's are now fighting for the survival of this planet with one or two exceptions, in the last 10 years we have banned CFC's from aerosol's, we use unleaded gas, we recycle, we fight against pollution, we are using alternative methoeds of power such as solar energy, we are fighting against things like Whale hunting in the oceans, hunting for sport, we strive to help those countries worse off then the UK or the USA, take Ethiopia, the WORLD pulled together to help those ppl and to bring them back from starvation and total dependence on us so they can now fight and support themselves.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 yes humans are animals...whats your point????

No we are most def not animals, see thats what seperates us from the animals is our ability to improove ourselves in a much shorter timespan than evolution for animals will allow, its our ability to be able to correct things and to work out ways of improoveing life quality for everything, animals and humans alike that is a beneifit to this world.
We have with the aid of science and technolgy developed by us expanded life spans, saved countless lives thru medical science, made child birth safer, etc.
If u and i was living just 100 years ago, then half the ppl that u know would not be alive, cos of polluted water, inapproate waste disposal, the lack of knowledge in curing simple diseases, the list is endless.

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Originally posted by tiesto14 To an extant...God's plan originally was for humans to be vegetarians and after he flooded the earth he said one day we will be again..

1st u say that then u say (btw where is your evidence to support the above ? )

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Originally posted by tiesto14 since most of what is preached by Christians is impossibilities in the scientific world.

So on one hand you are saying that we should follow god's word and then on the other hand u are saying its impossible, weird . . .

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Originally posted by tiesto14 I always find it funny that God flooded the earth to rid the world of all the evil people and what have you...YET decided to save 2 of every animal...makes you think who God thought was more deserving of life at that time...maybe its because animals cause nowhere near the devastation on this world that people have doen in history and will continue to do till the end of all time...

And it took a human to save all of those animals, Noah had to build the ark so that those animals could survive, so again human technology was a beneifit not only to humans but also to animals..

Nature is the most destructive force on earth, not humans, and the human race is using its technology to save this world, not destroy it, as i stated above, we as a species have learned that we must do something to save the planet and this is what we are doing, however slowly and however long it takes to correct those mistakes of the past, but cos of our education and learning, we are making the difference.

As for the issue of abortion, there are many many factors to consider, the 2 main ones being, the health of the mother, some women are just not capable of being able to give birth, be it due to high blood pressure, bone weakness in the hips, even the pregnancy itself can be very dangerous to the health of a woman, classic example is an eptopic pregnancy, this is where the egg gets caught in the tubes and if allowd to delvelop there will kill the mother.
Then there is the more sensitive issue of rape, this is an issue i am not going to go into as for the female members of TA this may be just too traumatic, the idea of being violated then having to carry a child concived from that, well use your brain to figure out the rest . . .

in finishing, you seem to have no consideration for ppl's idea's that do not conform to your own preconcived ideas, this is not a debate as you appear neither to be willing to accept that other ppl have a different point of veiw to your own.
By calling ppl names and or swearing at them is not the way to conduct a debate, it merely shows a poor use of language.

It also seems that the majority of the Debates threads are there to bring on the flames, you seem to enjoy provoking ppl into heated arguements on subjects that even the greatest minds of our time have no answer for.

Someone on this thread posted that he was sick of seeing all the religious threads in here, well debates on religion are always, ALWAYS going to bring conflict within ppl, where as the MUSIC we listen to is meant to bring us all together, why create factions and splits in a community of differing races/ religions / belifs that succesfully manage to co exist with each other in the realms of music, there is far too much hate in the world without trying to create more.

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