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that's what all the DJs here are like

I even mentioned it to one resident DJ. I came back to the club about a month later and the sound system was no longer distorting and blaring like it was the first time.

Dunno if he even heard me or understood what i said, but I dont' think he redlines anymore.

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I wonder why

LOL. I think you know exactly why. Now turn it up!

I'm noticing that my new Xone:62 is much more tolerant of going past 0 dB (A&H calls it 'headroom' in the manual) than my previous DJM-400.

Whereas with the DJM-400 I had to be very careful not to let levels get to even one yellow bar (+2dB), with the 62 I find that I can hit +1, +3, and even +5dB for super loud parts of a track, without any resulting distortion.

In fact, I need to hit +1 and +3 on the Xone in order to achieve a relatively similar 'loudness' of the mix compared to the DJM-400. The Xone has slightly (but noticeably) less bass than the DJM-400, as perhaps Pio is geared towards hiphop as well as electronica, whereas A&H is geared more towards electronica.

keep it green, green is good. 0db is where you should be peaking under all circumstances. once you go over 0db the signal is clipped meaning that the top portion of the sound wave is cut off. this forms a square wave and sqaure waves = distortion and possibly blown speakers.

On the Ecler mixers (at least the Nuo lines), the VUmeters are green until slightly below 0dB gain, at which it turns yellow. Any red on Nuo mixers is above 0, and starts sounding bad.

Incidentally, I rarely hit the yellows (0dB gain) when I'm mixing. I don't really have experience with other mixers, but I do recall seeing that the DJMs (including recent ones) have a lot of red in the meters.

I'm surprised I didn't post in this thread. I fucking hate redlining.

My first gig out I was booked by a promoter for the all-ages scene and every one of those DJs think it's best if the meters hit top and stay at top. So I was watching my levels on the mixer, hitting right below the red just to keep it loud enough. Then the promoter comes up, doesn't say anything to me and fucking CRANKED my gains, looked over at me and smiled with a thumbs-up. I wanted to tell him to fuck off and never touch a mixer while I'm mixing but he was kind enough to book me so I couldn't do it.

The sad part is, on the various amps and audio equipment scattered around the club they had been peaking for so long that the red LEDs had burnt out.

I've brought the subject up multiple times to the locals who I've caught red-lining and they've always said, "Yeah, I know it's bad for the mixer but it's too quiet in the club if I don't do it! There's no distortion!"

Like hell there isn't. Christ.

quote:

Originally posted by AnomalyConcept On the Ecler mixers (at least the Nuo lines), the VUmeters are green until slightly below 0dB gain, at which it turns yellow. Any red on Nuo mixers is above 0, and starts sounding bad. Incidentally, I rarely hit the yellows (0dB gain) when I'm mixing. I don't really have experience with other mixers, but I do recall seeing that the DJMs (including recent ones) have a lot of red in the meters.

I set my gains to allow max one red bar on my nuo 5.
Sounds crisp and clear

I only have one red led on my rane empath mixer. And I always keep hitting it when I mix. I have been wanting to fix it but Ive been too lazy, I think it sounds fine.


ive spun on djm 800s and they shoudl be kept below the red.

don't forget that distortion can sound good!

no, i am not taking the piss, it certainly can.

on my djm800, i turn the master way down, so i am only getting like 2 green bars there. but on the CHANNEL fader, i am driving that shit right into the red. no problem. it makes the sound sound "crunchier"

now, you could say this is "distortion".. but i think it can be used well.

quote:

Originally posted by Briden don't forget that distortion can sound good! no, i am not taking the piss, it certainly can. on my djm800, i turn the master way down, so i am only getting like 2 green bars there. but on the CHANNEL fader, i am driving that shit right into the red. no problem. it makes the sound sound "crunchier" now, you could say this is "distortion".. but i think it can be used well.

Or you could use the crush effect...

quote:

Originally posted by Vero keep it green, green is good. 0db is where you should be peaking under all circumstances. once you go over 0db the signal is clipped meaning that the top portion of the sound wave is cut off. this forms a square wave and sqaure waves = distortion and possibly blown speakers.

I've listened closely to the tech/mnml/house mixes I recorded peaking at +1, +3dB on the Xone:62, and I cannot hear any distortion. Even when I normalize the mix in Sony Vegas, it doesn't sound noisy or crackly.

For the purposes of recording a mix at home, I think you should strive to record a mix as massive and vivid as possible while avoiding any distortion.

yeah, crush is neat too.

I love the exclamation marks beside red leds on my Xone:32.

quote:

Originally posted by Briden don't forget that distortion can sound good! no, i am not taking the piss, it certainly can. on my djm800, i turn the master way down, so i am only getting like 2 green bars there. but on the CHANNEL fader, i am driving that shit right into the red. no problem. it makes the sound sound "crunchier" now, you could say this is "distortion".. but i think it can be used well.

i don't say distortion, i say idiot

quote:

Originally posted by Briden don't forget that distortion can sound good! no, i am not taking the piss, it certainly can. on my djm800, i turn the master way down, so i am only getting like 2 green bars there. but on the CHANNEL fader, i am driving that shit right into the red. no problem. it makes the sound sound "crunchier" now, you could say this is "distortion".. but i think it can be used well.

Dill munch!

You have CRUSH for that kind of effect!!!

Jarv

thanks for the tips guys. been djing for 7 years and played in many many situations. i understand that redlining the MASTER is bad, kills speakers. but, in certain circumstances, oversaturation of a channel can be used to creative effect.

quote:

Originally posted by Jarvmeister Dill munch! You have CRUSH for that kind of effect!!! Jarv

lol @ this thread

I hate it when you get a DJ who trys matching cue volume with master volume beacuse he hasnt ever used a mixer with only one volume meter. or they make the mistake of using the gain as a volume control and dont think about gain structure, it really sucks when they do this crap on your equipment.

take this advice from me: before cueing any CD/record, search for the loudest part of the track you want to play in your headphones and set the gain so that it only peaks at 0dB, then you can cue it up, this way you wont peak beyond +3dB while in a mix if you have your faders on full and your EQ's at 12 noon, although you should be ajusting those so that won't happen.

and another thing: the channel gain is not a volume control, its proper use is to set the volume of each track to an equal constant, you then use the channel faders and EQ to manage your levels while in a mix, not the other way around.

quote:

Originally posted by idoru I've brought the subject up multiple times to the locals who I've caught red-lining and they've always said, "Yeah, I know it's bad for the mixer but it's too quiet in the club if I don't do it! There's no distortion!"

What an asshole.

quote:

Originally posted by cassa.de.x I've listened closely to the tech/mnml/house mixes I recorded peaking at +1, +3dB on the Xone:62, and I cannot hear any distortion. Even when I normalize the mix in Sony Vegas, it doesn't sound noisy or crackly. For the purposes of recording a mix at home, I think you should strive to record a mix as massive and vivid as possible while avoiding any distortion.

ok i didnt say anything about "sound." i'm just giving it to you from the point of view of someone who has training in both sound engineering and electrical engineering. i could care less how it sounds. the fact remains that mixers will clip your signal over 0db.

so take a sinusoidal wave (that would be the linear graph of the equation y=sin(x)) and cut off the top and bottom halves of it, what you have left looks like a plateau (or square wave). Now, when your sound driver (or "speaker" for you de de dees out there) hits that flat portion of the clipped sound wave it will try to hold the driver in the in or out position (depending on weather your wave in above or below the x axis). this is called distortion. because drivers are designed to move in a fluid back and forth motion, over exposure to square waves will eventually blow your speakers.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero ok i didnt say anything about "sound." i'm just giving it to you from the point of view of someone who has training in both sound engineering and electrical engineering. i could care less how it sounds. the fact remains that mixers will clip your signal over 0db. so take a sinusoidal wave (that would be the linear graph of the equation y=sin(x)) and cut off the top and bottom halves of it, what you have left looks like a plateau (or square wave). Now, when your sound driver (or "speaker" for you de de dees out there) hits that flat portion of the clipped sound wave it will try to hold the driver in the in or out position (depending on weather your wave in above or below the x axis). this is called distortion. because drivers are designed to move in a fluid back and forth motion, over exposure to square waves will eventually blow your speakers.

Fair enough. So if I was using monitors or hooked into a club sound system then I'd limit the levels in the green and leave it up to the speakers/amp to help with the rest.

For recording I'm still going to push it so that once rendered, the mix sounds good and clean in headphones and in a car stereo system...

quote:

Originally posted by Vero ok i didnt say anything about "sound." i'm just giving it to you from the point of view of someone who has training in both sound engineering and electrical engineering. i could care less how it sounds. the fact remains that mixers will clip your signal over 0db. so take a sinusoidal wave (that would be the linear graph of the equation y=sin(x)) and cut off the top and bottom halves of it, what you have left looks like a plateau (or square wave). Now, when your sound driver (or "speaker" for you de de dees out there) hits that flat portion of the clipped sound wave it will try to hold the driver in the in or out position (depending on weather your wave in above or below the x axis). this is called distortion. because drivers are designed to move in a fluid back and forth motion, over exposure to square waves will eventually blow your speakers.

listen to what the man says

quote:

Originally posted by cassa.de.x Fair enough. So if I was using monitors or hooked into a club sound system then I'd limit the levels in the green and leave it up to the speakers/amp to help with the rest. For recording I'm still going to push it so that once rendered, the mix sounds good and clean in headphones and in a car stereo system...

Why don't you just normalize?
This almost does the same thing, but it's safer for your gear

Anyway, I tend to cue my tracks up to about -4dB which leaves me with a headroom of 11dB (my mixer goes up to +7dB safely). This is more than enough space to avoid any kind of problems, and everything sounds crispy clean. In a recording I just (normalize or) hard limit afterwards, which essentially is what a club system does as well.

quote:

Originally posted by cassa.de.x Fair enough. So if I was using monitors or hooked into a club sound system then I'd limit the levels in the green and leave it up to the speakers/amp to help with the rest. For recording I'm still going to push it so that once rendered, the mix sounds good and clean in headphones and in a car stereo system...

so now you are going to record a set full of square waves so you can potentially damage any sound system your mix touches. ya know what, if i was as smart as you, i'd be designing sound systems for the biggest baddest clubs and studios all over the planet. thank you for humbling me with your infinite wisdom and untouchable common sense.

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