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^It's true! I swear my psych professor orgasms every time someone in the class says:

"Wait, this worries me, isn't that ethically questionable? I'm concerned."

Don't sound too uncertain, though. Makes you seem like you don't really have an opinion.

How does the first question pertain to an astronomy class at all....

What a dumb teacher for asking these questions as they have little relevance to what you learned in the course (I think).

quote:

Originally posted by Yan Don't sound too uncertain, though. Makes you seem like you don't really have an opinion.

yeah. Be concerned about some sort of controversy in what "life" is, yet strong in your solution/view of this problem.

Maybe come to the conclusion that while life could be anything from simply animals to plants and rocks and animals and who know what else on other planets, the important thing is to treat all the world with respect.

Or something equally BS

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers there are elements in those rocks that are in your body. think about it.

Yeah but just cos i eat salt and iron and zinc and my body ends up using them doesn't mean they are alive. No more than the fact that there is cowhide in my car interior makes my car a cow.



Back to the point...

From the point of view of a scientist (Astronomy is a science) rocks are non-living.

You should think about things that differentiate living things from non-living things.This isn't an arts/philosophy subject so talking about the "life" of non-living objects will probably not get you far, especially if academics in exact sciences are marking your paper.

Generally "living" things:

• Have complex structure;
  
• Consume natural substances and use them to thrive;
  
• Need external energy of some kind (whether it is taken in through chemical substances, light or heat etc) to continue to live;
  
• Have the capacity to reproduce by replicating at least a part of their DNA to produce similar organisms;
  
• Can and will eventually die - or cease to live, though their chemical components continue to exist. etc...

1) good question.
2) no.
3) do you own homework

Theres definetly life elsewhere in the universe just based on chance. I took an astonomy course and although I forget the scientist's name there was a guy who came up with an equation on the probability of existance of life on other planets. He took into account the number of stars in our galaxy and the average number of planets around those stars as well as the factors that come into play that determine whether or not life will develop on a planet (how close it is to the sun, existance of an atmosphere, so on and so forth). It basically determines that due to the number of planets in our galaxy and the many varying conditions on each of them, there is bound to be life on some of them.

It comes down to the fact there are a number of exact conditons that must be present in order for life to develop but there have to be at least a few planets out there that have these conditions present. The universe is simply too large and there are too many stars with too many planets around each for Earth to be the only one that can support life.

quote:

Originally posted by tubularbills 1) good question. 2) no. 3) do you own homework

I thought the same thing at first but they're not asking us to do it for them but just give them ideas. Theres been a few times where I didn't know where to start an essay but after hearing ideas from others it was much easier writing it.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy Yeah but just cos i eat salt and iron and zinc and my body ends up using them doesn't mean they are alive. No more than the fact that there is cowhide in my car interior makes my car a cow.

Let's say your ancestors buried your great-great-grandmother and they planted a cherry tree on top of her grave. You live on that property and help yourself to a juicy cherry, and at the same time you are pregnant. The cherry tree took the nutrients from the ground, which was taken from the soil which soaked up all the wonderful fermenting juices of your great-great grandmother. You ate the cherry from the cherry tree and the nutrients from that cherry gets absorbed by the placenta and that energy builds your baby. You now have an atom that was in your great-great grandmother in your baby. Congratulations!

lol its not homework, its an in class essay i have to do as part of my final, he just said to think about it


and as for mr. astroboy, thanks for all the input! its a great help

and tubularbills... u just lost my vote

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Let's say your ancestors buried your great-great-grandmother and they planted a cherry tree on top of her grave. You live on that property and help yourself to a juicy cherry, and at the same time you are pregnant. The cherry tree took the nutrients from the ground, which was taken from the soil which soaked up all the wonderful fermenting juices of your great-great grandmother. You ate the cherry from the cherry tree and the nutrients from that cherry gets absorbed by the placenta and that energy builds your baby. You now have an atom that was in your great-great grandmother in your baby. Congratulations!

You gotta figure too the water you drink was once probably someone's urine at one point, probably many times over.

quote:

Originally posted by Marc Summers Let's say your ancestors buried your great-great-grandmother and they planted a cherry tree on top of her grave. You live on that property and help yourself to a juicy cherry, and at the same time you are pregnant. The cherry tree took the nutrients from the ground, which was taken from the soil which soaked up all the wonderful fermenting juices of your great-great grandmother. You ate the cherry from the cherry tree and the nutrients from that cherry gets absorbed by the placenta and that energy builds your baby. You now have an atom that was in your great-great grandmother in your baby. Congratulations!

lol Yeah no shit!
And the Universe was once made of Hydrogen and Helium until massive stars, many times bigger than our Sun, fused the nuclei of those elements to create all the heavier elements on the periodic table, then over millions of years the stars dies and exploded sending those elements across the universe, which later joined to form other shit like you and me. So the atoms that make both of us up could one day have been part of the same star!...


...wanna make out?


...doesn't mean that atoms and molecules are alive though.

quote:

Originally posted by astroboy lol Yeah no shit! And the Universe was once made of Hydrogen and Helium until massive stars, many times bigger than our Sun, fused the nuclei of those elements to create all the heavier elements on the periodic table, then over millions of years the stars dies and exploded sending those elements across the universe, which later joined to form other shit like you and me. So the atoms that make both of us up could one day have been part of the same star! ...doesn't mean that atoms and molecules are alive though.

Nah, I never said that. I was just saying that we are built from the same things that non-living things are from, which is what you are getting at with the star!

I love this

We are organic and inorganic materials.

Yay.

quote:

Originally posted by Yan We are organic and inorganic materials. Yay.

score!

Once you have defined life make sure you mention Viruses, as science has trouble defining whether they are alive or not. Suffice to say that for your purposes the basic building block of life: DNA can be taken as being equivalent to life. So you're looking for the probability of some kind of molecular arrangement containing DNA forming somewhere in the universe.

After that you can Google "probability of life", which wil turn up thousands of results. Ignore anything with a "creationist" slant as it is simply not science. You'll find a lot of things discussing the probability of intelligent life. Filter out all the bit's that talk about the nature and formation of "intelligence". Just focus on the bits that talk about theprobability of the formation of life in its most basic form.

For example here's a talk Hawking gave on the topic: http://www.hawking.org.uk/text/public/life.html

Here's a wiki that seems relevant: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Purpos...xists_Elsewhere

you can find heaps more stuff on the web.

Re: need help with essay....

quote:

1. What is your definition of life? explain

1) life is the development of a form which in capable of reproducing when the conditions surrounding it are conducive to growth.

2) You can elaborate why life would not exist on other planets/sun/inter-galactic space.
Presence of carbon to form basic DNA patterns is essential, correct % of oxygen, water, temperature is required etc.

3)Organisms have consciousness, non-living things don't.
Whether consciousness is generated as a result of complex interactions of inert elements,
or it is independent of our body is open to debate.
From astronomy point of view, one must consider it to be completely dependant on the body.
So, you can write about the difficulty of defining life in the first place,
because we do not have an understanding of the basic criteria (consciousness) that separates living from non-living.

quote:

2. do you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe? explain

Yes because

1) The vastness of space has proved beyond doubt that we are not special in this universe.

2) You can talk about Russian Physicist Alexander Friedman's models and his assumptions that

a) Universe looks the same in whichever direction we look (on a large scale)
b) It would still look the same if we see it from anywhere else in the universe.

And there are proofs for these assumptions (like the detection of microwave background radiation)

This is strong enough an argument to make that the elements which we are aware of,
are to be found all over the universe and where ever the conditions are suitable, life will exist.

You can also point out that, inspite of our understanding that life needs a specific set of elements to promote growth, and a certain specific elements to get destroyed, even on this earth, scientists have found organisms which have evolved to live in extremely hostile environments. (bacteria that thrive on sulfur deposits near deep sea volcanoes, under very harsh conditions)

So really it is easy to argue that life can exist somewhere else

Re: Re: need help with essay....

quote:

Originally posted by Omega_M 1) life is the development of a form which in capable of reproducing when the conditions surrounding it are conducive to growth.

Couldn't that apply to certain types of naturally occurring crystals tho?

Re: need help with essay....

quote:

Originally posted by PvDoBseSSioN so i got an astronomy final tomorrow and i have 2 essays to do (in class) 1. What is your definition of life? explain 2. do you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe? explain keeping in mind this is for *astronomy*

First off, talk about the Drake Equation and the Rare-Earth Hypothesis. Research them, and include them in ur essay. I think it might help you.

1. What is your definition of life? explain

Life is anything that can reproduce offspring from itself or a partner of the same species. Inanimate objects can not produce from itself/partners offspring. The only life that has so far been discovered is earth dwelling, carbon-based life.

2. do you believe there is life elsewhere in the universe? explain

I believe there is life elsewhere in the universe because of unexplained UFO accounts since ancient times, the apparent leaps in technology during only certain periods of human history (possible connection to alien technological exchanges), and the statistical possibility of life from the countless stars.

People have been documenting UFO encounters since mesopotamian times. Conspiracy theorists will speculate that computers came about by a secret exchange of alien technology between the government and an alien intelligence. Also think about the lines of the chile desert, egyptian pyramids, etc. There are so many countless stars, galaxies, and with it, planets, that there is a positive statistical certainty that at least 1 life-sustaining planet exists somewhere in the universe.

In fact, talk about the Drake Equation and the Rare-Earth Hypothesis

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