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quote:

Originally posted by Time2Burn "An eye for an eye only ends up making the whole world blind" - Mahatma Gandhi

Tell that to the Kurdish families that Saddam gassed...

quote:

Originally posted by Jer. If memory serves, he taunted them back. He died bravely, but there is no excuse for anyone to belittle another man (however cruel) only moments before his death.

AMEN to that!!

Hussein execution. Can you feel the evil?


I don't want to admit that I actually watched the Saddam Hussein execution video on You tube. I watched it yesterday and I have many thoughts on this. I took a deep breath and watched this video shot from someone's cellphone that was there to witness the execution.

While reading this blog keep in mind I am NOT a Saddam supporter.

If you have watched any of the news channels, you have undoubtedly seen this blury, dark video. You see Saddam being led to the gallows by two cowards with their faces covered in something like a black ski mask. The noose is securely and tightly fastened around his neck. Men are screaming and taunting him in Arabic, and he is taunting them back, making fun of them screaming "Muqtada Muqtada Muqtada". He tells them they are not brave Arab men. They tell him he is going straight to hell. At this point I am disgusted by two things. The first being that you can see camera flashes, people were allowed to have cellphones there and the taunting that was going on while he died. It all becomes one circus freakshow.

I have never witnessed anyone die in real life, be it in person or on a video.

The taunting continues, and with no time to waste the trap door opens you hear a loud bang and he is gone. People are saying various things loudly in Arabic. The person with the cellphone seems to be moving around a lot and then about a minute later he seems to be in the underground area where Saddam is hanging. A closeup of his face, the noose around his neck and then shot from a different angle where you can see that his neck broke as his head is turned at an unnatural angle. The video stops and I feel like I am going to pass out because I just watched something totally disgusting, dispicable and inhumane.

After my disgust passes I then feel spooked out. Maybe because this video was so dark and everyone was dressed in dark colors, but I believe that I just witnessed evil/hell on earth when I watched this video. It is like a dark nightmare where there is no turning back. Evil in the fact that Saddam is there in this dark gallow and even more evil when you realize the cowards who are taunting him do not realize they are going to the same place he is going.....Hell. I am not a Bible thumper, however, there is a passage in the Bible that describes what hell is like. One thing about the passage is how there are tortured souls, a lot of confusion, people screaming and taunting. This video fits the visual I have in my mind very well!

Yes, Saddam should have been killed. However, someone's death is never a time for rejoicing, partying, dancing around a dead body, or for a public spectacle to be made about it.

So I leave you with a bit of the lyrics from a song called "A Bad Dream" by Keane..the lyrics are very fitting:

I wake up, it's a bad dream,
No one on my side,
I was fighting
But I just feel too tired
to be fighting,
guess I'm not the fighting kind.

Where will I meet my fate?
Baby I'm a man, I was born to hate.
And when will I meet my end?
In a better time you could be my friend

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Tell that to the Kurdish families that Saddam gassed...

He farted in their faces? What a way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by DarkAngel He farted in their faces? What a way to go.

A truly PATHETIC post....

People need to spend a little less time worrying about how Saddam was executed and focus a lot more on what this man did to be sentenced to death in the first place.

that was unbeleivable

quote:

Originally posted by Refinnej

well put

quote:

Originally posted by fairy godfather A truly PATHETIC post....

Just trying to cut the tension. I guess it works better for Vivid than me lol.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker People need to spend a little less time worrying about how Saddam was executed and focus a lot more on what this man did to be sentenced to death in the first place.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by yellow1 ... I agree Mark, but ignoring this event doesn't work either. I was angered when I saw Saddam being heckled and handled like this on CNN. This is only to express my sadness of it all and make people realize how lucky we are, so no offense please!!

no no...sorry if I wasn't clear...I'm not bashing you or suggesting we ignore this event...and I'm not suggesting you posted it for negative reasons.

I simply don't think TA is an appropriate forum in which to further spread and sensationalize such an event.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker People need to spend a little less time worrying about how Saddam was executed and focus a lot more on what this man did to be sentenced to death in the first place.

while the hanging is gruesome, it's more about the public display of this hanging that is reprehensible and disgusting.

If it's to be a numbers game, we could also talk about the number of innocent civilians who have died or had their lives ruined as a direct result of the illegal invasion of in Iraq...and who continue to die on a daily basis thanks to the instability that has followed (with no end in sight).

Is Bush ever going to be held legally accountable for any of those deaths? no.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT it's more about the public display of this hanging that is reprehensible and disgusting.

If you want to talk about public display - how about the public display of gassing an entire region with poisonous gas? Can't get much more public than seeing your family, neighbors or friends die around you.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT Is Bush ever going to be held legally accountable for any of those deaths? no.

Nor should he be. Bush has NEVER directly ordered the genocide of any people. Bush has authorized a military invasion - there is a BIG difference. There is a black and white difference between Bush and Saddam.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker People need to spend a little less time worrying about how Saddam was executed and focus a lot more on what this man did to be sentenced to death in the first place.

When I was 8 years old living in Israel he was sending Scud missiles that were landing all around me...literally. The closest one fell less than a kilometer away from where I was living...and for what? And that was nothing compared to what he did to the Kurds and other minorities. I agree with RJ, we should focus on his disgusting deeds.

quote:

Originally posted by ItalianPoiSon HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT HOLY SHIT not even cnn has got that....

cnn has it...but wont show it

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT I didn't even watch it... IMHO, gawking at the execution of a human being is disgusting and this thread should be deleted by the thread starter or a mod. they don't allow news crews in for a reason...taping an execution and releasing it to the public is morally and legally reprehensible. IMHO, the person who leaked it should face as serious a legal sanction as is allowed under the law. capital punishment is, IMHO, barbaric enough without assholes like this guy turning it into a spectacle after the fact. disgusting.

I didn't watch it either, and I agree with everything you said 100%.
i couldn't have said it better myself.

Saddam considered himself a martyr....hangings generally involve the hangee to be covered with a hood. He requested not to wear a hood so people could see his face as he was hung.

As barbaric as we may see it, I think it is safe to say Saddam and his supporters would relish the fact we are all watching this video after he is dead.

^^^ what does that have to do with circulating a video of him being hung?

So if this was a video of an innocent man being hung, or even a "normal" death row inmate, then we could debate the morality behind illegally taking a video of their executiona and having it circulate over the net...but because it's an evil dictator, we can't have that debate?

I see.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker If you want to talk about public display - how about the public display of gassing an entire region with poisonous gas? Can't get much more public than seeing your family, neighbors or friends die around you.

lol, come on...that's an absurd reply. Circulating an execution on the internet, like it's a spectacle, isn't "evil" on the level of gassing a people...but I find it morally reprehensible nonetheless (not to mention that the video was illegaly taken and I hope the person is charged/convicted).

Bringing that up is not a logical retort to discussing whether it's right to circulate the video of his hanging.

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker Nor should he be. Bush has NEVER directly ordered the genocide of any people. Bush has authorized a military invasion - there is a BIG difference. There is a black and white difference between Bush and Saddam.

of course there is...and you know I'm not equating the two.

Bush's authorization DIRECTLY resulted in the deaths and displacement of countless civilians...and the aftermath of the illegal invasion is a mess of a country that may not regain stability for years.

do you honestly feel that he, and other senior officials, should face NO consequence for this, other than to possibly see their party defeated the next election?

quote:

Originally posted by rabbitjoker I won't watch the video... It is interesting however that people are focusing more on the death of this one murderer and not the 100,000+ that he was responsible for killing.

i think it's because ppl expected more civility coming from those opposed to what he's done..

nonetheless, i've made the choice of watching an execution video of the beheading of an American hostage by Iraqi insurgents. It made me sick to my stomach and i won't watch another video like this again.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT ^^^ what does that have to do with circulating a video of him being hung? So if this was a video of an innocent man being hung, or even a "normal" death row inmate, then we could debate the morality behind illegally taking a video of their executiona and having it circulate over the net...but because it's an evil dictator, we can't have that debate? I see.

Debate all you want, that isn't my point.
My point is....even after he is dead, he is still being highly talked about/watched in the Western world. I am just saying supporters of Saddam may or may not see the distribution of this video as a moral victory.

Video transcript/translation (stolen from the c0r thread):

Saddam (as the noose is put around his neck): Ya Allah (Oh God).
Someone in the audience: Mercy be on those who pray for Mohammed and the household of Muhammed (Everyone repeats the prayer, including Saddam) -
Executioner and two people in the audience: ... And hasten his return (the Mahdi), curse his enemy and grant victory to his son, Muqtada, Muqtada, Muqtada! (This is a common Sadrist chant.)
Saddam (smirking): Muqtada? Is this your manhood? (unclear)
NSA Muwafaq Al-Rubai'i: To Hell!
Saddam: (laughing) ... and disgrace to you. (unintelligible)
Prosecutor Munqidh Al-Far'awn: Please, no.
Muwafaq Al-Rubai'i: Longlive Mohammed Baqir Al-Sadr! (shi'a cleric executed by Saddam's regime)
Someone in the audience: To Hell!
Prosecutor Munqidh Al-Far'awn: No. Please, no. I beg you. The man is in an execution.
Saddam (solemnly recites the Shahada prayer): I witness that there is no god but Allah, and that Mohammed is the messenger of Allah. I witness that there is no god but Allah, and that Mohammed is the-- (trap door is opened).
Audience (in unison): Prayers for Mohammed and the household of Muhammed.
Someone: The tyrant has fell. May Allah's curse be upon him.
Someone: May Allah's curse be upon him.
(commotion in the hall)
Someone: No. No. Stay back.
Someone: Leave him for 8 minutes, boys. Don't take him down.
Someone: Everyone. Stay back. Everyone. Back.

Beheading video = gruesome, violent, disgusting.

Hanging video = shaky, awful camera work, you barely see him drop. It's really nothing.

What is something of the video is the audio that was translated with the people in the room jeering at him and people explaining to "let him hang for 3 minutes".

Glorified? Yes, naturally in today's media something of this nature is glorified. Look how widespread it was in a matter of hours.

Necessary to see? Not at all.

Disgusting and revolting because someone dies? There are far worse video's out there. But this is in no way educational or could bring 'closure' to anyone to seeing it.

Side Note (OT): Why is it that every video from the middle east has the worst camera people/persons on the planet? Is it really that hard to hold your hand steady? Seriously, I don't care if it's filming a flash flood, or filming you and your buddies doing donuts in the sand: Learn to hold a camera steady for everyone else who's watching what you post.

Edit: the translation above isn't correct on many different levels. I would love to see a source of that translation.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen Edit: the translation above isn't correct on many different levels. I would love to see a source of that translation.

I stole that from a post in the c0r thread...
http://www.tranceaddict.com/forums/...240#post7178240

Source unknown... I'll see if I can find another from a reputable source.

quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen Edit: the translation above isn't correct on many different levels. I would love to see a source of that translation.

Actually, the translation is accurate.
You can Google it, it�s posted all over the net.

quote:

Originally posted by MarkT I didn't even watch it... IMHO, gawking at the execution of a human being is disgusting and this thread should be deleted by the thread starter or a mod. they don't allow news crews in for a reason...taping an execution and releasing it to the public is morally and legally reprehensible. IMHO, the person who leaked it should face as serious a legal sanction as is allowed under the law. capital punishment is, IMHO, barbaric enough without assholes like this guy turning it into a spectacle after the fact. disgusting.

I tend to agree with you, but then again, I can't ignore the historical significance of this moment either.

I appreciate being able to make the decision to watch it instead of having someone else make that decision for me. Executions have been public for many many centuries - it is just not something we are used to in North American societies.

quote:

Originally posted by lopi I almost feel sorry for you. IMHO everyone deserves respect, or at least silence, before they die, everyone... even Hitler. No one, NO ONE deserves mockery and disrespect.

I guess I won't take you feeling sorry for me as disrespect by not respecting my opinion...further he's a killer and imagine someone close to you being raped, killed and tortured...really imagine that then tell me you would let that person die in silence, not with any outrage on your part, if you could and maybe you can I condone that and admire it because i think you belong to the elite few among billions.

"But nevertheless, he was given justice," the president added during a news conference with visiting German Chancellor Angela Merkel. "The thousands of people he killed were not."

^ in regardes to hussain could have had a more dignified death but...... cnn.com

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