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-- Revealed: Israel plans nuclear strike on Iran
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quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN even the centrist moderates like myself will be calling for the death of israel

That's a good one. You calling yourself a centrist moderate is the funniest post I've read today.

Is the circus in town or you just feel like being a clown today?

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles That's a good one. You calling yourself a centrist moderate is the funniest post I've read today. Is the circus in town or you just feel like being a clown today?

meaning what? a centrist pulls from either end of the spectrum. i have opinions on both side of the great divide. if we're gonna keep simplistic descriptions of left-right, id definitely put myself somewhere muddy in the middle...

quote:

Originally posted by CHRles That's a good one. You calling yourself a centrist moderate is the funniest post I've read today. Is the circus in town or you just feel like being a clown today?

Wrong. I don't think there's anyone more centrist that pkc on any issue, not just this one. Both his greatest strength and weakness IMO (sorry pkc ).

no apologies needed shaolin! i used to be a rapid righty, then a rabid lefty, and now (in my old age) ive found myself languishing somewhere in the middle

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 You're using that victim card again, Q. Don't blame anyone but the GOP's corruptness and lack of postwar planning in Iraq on the voters or the Democrats - have your GOP take a good hard look in the mirror. Actually, a healthy number of them already have and came to the same conclusions.

yeah, i'm just not buying it. the Dems wanted wanted their power back back one way or another since 2000 and have been fairly scrupulous revising history, propping up hit men and generating shortsided hate among its young and ignorant far left base for years.

after all that, it took 3000 dead American soldiers to give you a one seat Majority in the Senate by your logic.

if i'm playing the victim card then you should remember one thing, you've got the inurgency, Zawahiri, Ahmadeninijad on your side...as Leslie Nielson once said; "good luck, we're all counting on you."

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo yeah, i'm just not buying it. the Dems wanted wanted their power back back one way or another since 2000 and have been fairly scrupulous revising history, propping up hit men and generating shortsided hate among its young and ignorant far left base for years.

And I thought my tin foil hat was on too tight.

quote:

after all that, it took 3000 dead American soldiers to give you a one seat Majority in the Senate by your logic.

And a battle against a tightly controlled GOP majority with a sitting President in their pockets (or perhaps the other way around would be more correct).

And try not to count out the 31-seat pickup in Congress, if you will sir. You must have also conveniently forgotten that not one Democratic incumbent lost his seat. And you criticize us of revisionist history? Tisk tisk.

Oh yeah, we also picked up more governor and State Congressional seats as well.

And it only gets worse for you wingnuts in 2008 as you have substantially more seats to defend vs. the Democrats. Thanks, I like my logic very much.

quote:

if i'm playing the victim card then you should remember one thing, you've got the inurgency, Zawahiri, Ahmadeninijad on your side...as Leslie Nielson once said; "good luck, we're all counting on you."

Ahh I see, by that extremist logic I suppose you have al Qaeda and Iran on your side? Or perhaps you are on their side? Because in all reality, bin Laden has nothing but high praise for your ill-planned invasion in Iraq, and Iran has nothing but sincere gratitude for installing a fundamentalist Shiite regime with close ties to their own country.

Now which extremist logic makes more sense?

How about the clout of nuclear annihilation hanging over your head being one of the iranian scientists?

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Ahh I see, by that extremist logic I suppose you have al Qaeda and Iran on your side?

Zawahiri and Ahmedinenjad are Al Queera and Iran, stupid.

quote:

Or perhaps you are on their side? Because in all reality, bin Laden has nothing but high praise for your ill-planned invasion in Iraq, and Iran has nothing but sincere gratitude for installing a fundamentalist Shiite regime with close ties to their own country.

nice stretch but that logic is just silly.

instead, try this: thats what they think because they like seeing Westerners die trying to impart a moderate and soveriegn self rule. understand?

the only difference between you and them is that you don't enjoy watching Westerners die. however, thats pretty much where the difference ends.

US has been considering such an operation for awhile now-
http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-56/iss-11/p32.html
(Sort of a how they work thing)
And still seems to be pushing for it-
http://www.newyorker.com/fact/conte...s/060417fa_fact
I seriously doubt Israel would be the one to launch such an attack, much more likely to be the US doing it in the current political conditions but that really seems to be dependant on the US congress. They where making big conventional bombs to do the same type of job as well if I remember hearing rightly they dumped out the back of some military transport plane.

Don't really go in for the 'long & bloody' war thing either, I'd be more inclined to think it would end up like Libya after they where bombed by the US and UK. Though the UN wouldnt back anything like a nuke strike... I seriously hope they wouldnt so the subsequent diplomacy wouldnt be there.
Kind of like the complete lack of diplomacy the US is displaying elsewhere in the world, may as well just build a big, silent wall instead of having a US Embassy in some places with 'Kiss My Arse' written on the sides so the locals can throw rocks at it for all the lack of talking that goes on.

No, no long wars with nukes flying.

they should use submarine launched ICBM kinetic energy weapons.

no "yield" at all, just a salvo of 2000 lbs. tungsten hammers coming down from space at 17,000 mph.

they could be launched off the coast of Hawaii. wouldn't have to leave our own waters.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo they should use submarine launched ICBM kinetic energy weapons. no "yield" at all, just a salvo of 2000 lbs. tungsten hammers coming down from space at 17,000 mph. they could be launched off the coast of Hawaii. wouldn't have to leave our own waters.

you have no care for human life. All you see is the brainwashed world you live in.. america the great saviour... liberating the world from evil

Give us a fuckin break. YOu are the laughing stock of the world. People hate you becuase of you. You dont make sense anymore.. you are a lie.. a blundering fool who is still proud of the corruption and hell that has espoused Iraq and your leaders.

I dont think you understnad the ramifications of such a strike.

It could lead that whole area into a regional war for decades. But to your cock-fed mentality.. you just see things in black and white.

What a joke your existence is.

keep rooting for your soldiers... they seem to be doing so well these days

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King you have no care for human life.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King keep rooting for your soldiers... they seem to be doing so well these days

interesting perspective you have there.

quote:

Originally posted by Cyrus King you have no care for human life. All you see is the brainwashed world you live in.. america the great saviour... liberating the world from evil Give us a fuckin break. YOu are the laughing stock of the world. People hate you becuase of you. You dont make sense anymore.. you are a lie.. a blundering fool who is still proud of the corruption and hell that has espoused Iraq and your leaders. I dont think you understnad the ramifications of such a strike. It could lead that whole area into a regional war for decades. But to your cock-fed mentality.. you just see things in black and white. What a joke your existence is. keep rooting for your soldiers... they seem to be doing so well these days

dude, i was refering to the targeting of their underground nuclear facilities like Natanz, not Tehran.

quote:

People hate you becuase of you

i'm beginning to hate Canadians becuase of you.

how effed up is that?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN interesting perspective you have there.

I have little sympathy for murdering scumbags like soldiers (not all of them ofcourse, there's good people even in a degenrate insitution like the military).

quote:

I have little sympathy for murdering scumbags like soldiers (not all of them ofcourse, there's good people even in a degenrate insitution like the military).

huh? wow thats dumb.

not because of the "murderous scumbags" part, i could give damn.

...but the structure is just...wow! speechless

are you high dude?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo are you high dude?

Close to it lol . But not because I'm smoking anything, I'm just really tired.

EDIT: Well, I do have ADHD. Which causes me to randomly insert things in my posts. And I don't always proof read before posting. So it doesn't surprise me that it comes out the way it does sometimes. But you're rather obsessed with criticizing irrelevant bullshit aren't you? Since you can't actually take on people's arguments.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Close to it lol . But not because I'm smoking anything, I'm just really tired. EDIT: Well, I do have ADHD. Which causes me to randomly insert things in my posts. And I don't always proof read before posting. So it doesn't surprise me that it comes out the way it does sometimes. But you're rather obsessed with criticizing irrelevant bullshit aren't you? Since you can't actually take on people's arguments.

right, i'm sure you got an excuse for everything. heard that one before?

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo right, i'm sure you got an excuse for everything. heard that one before?

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z But you're rather obsessed with criticizing irrelevant bullshit aren't you? Since you can't actually take on people's arguments.

Except in this case, you're not even criticizing anything. You've finally resorted to pulling things out of your ass.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z I have little sympathy for murdering scumbags like soldiers (not all of them ofcourse, there's good people even in a degenrate insitution like the military).

thats pretty disingenuous. you cant possibly label an entire institution like that. soldiers have committed great acts of heroism and sacrifice just as they have committed acts of barbarity. just because you disagree with the invasion of iraq doesnt mean you shouldnt feel something for the men and women on the ground whom had no control over the decision to deploy. like it or not, militaries are essential. if only because it stops people like you and i being sent off to war.

Cyrus - No care for human life? He's talking about a way to strike
Iran's nuke facilities without explosives compared to
tactical nukes. Think he's being considerate of life moron...

And all this talk about Iran and Bin Laden 'happy' we invaded
Iraq... Give me a break, I don't think they like a democracy
accountable by the people & elections in their own backyard.
With more than 100,000 American and Coalition Troops next
door. They want us OUT of the middle east, what do you think
they've been trying to do for 20 years? Terrorise the shit
out of us to get us to go running. Now we're really in there
and two muslim countries, Afganistan & Iraq, even Pakistan
are now counted as OUR allies.

They don't have 100k troops in our backyard, that's what they
would be happy about, instead we've got them surrounded and
on the run. Bin Laden has said he expected us to go running
after 9/11 from the region and instead we've messed their
entire safe haven and training camps in Afganistan and
another hostile regime in Iraq. Bin Laden is in a cave hiding.

And stop with the 'If US invaded Iran they'd be bogged down'
BS. EVERYONE knows we don't want to invade or have a ground
war, or regime change. Stop using that dumb arguement that
we'd be bogged down like Iraq crap. We're going to bomb their
Nuke research and send it back ten years.

quote:

Originally posted by shaolin_Z Since you can't actually take on people's arguments.

Look who's talking, you resort to juvenile name calling
and cursing when you don't have anything productive to say.
And once in a blue after making generalized comments about
the military you put (some of them). It's not MOST of them
so you should word it differently moron. Since some are dumbass
and most are good people then you should stop labeling them
every chance you get as rapists and murderers.

quote:

Originally posted by Q5echo Zawahiri and Ahmedinenjad are Al Queera and Iran, stupid.

Doh. That's what I get for skimreading your posts. I tend to that sometimes when you write.

quote:

nice stretch but that logic is just silly.

No more silly than your asinine comments on us silly Democrats.

quote:

instead, try this: thats what they think because they like seeing Westerners die trying to impart a moderate and soveriegn self rule. understand? the only difference between you and them is that you don't enjoy watching Westerners die. however, thats pretty much where the difference ends.

I thought you were going to explain how my logic was somehow more silly versus your own? Instead you just threw up another Hannity op-ed with no supporting evidence. You guys really like doing that, don't you?

Tell me something, champ - what the fuck have you neocons been right on about this whole Iraqi war in the first place?

How long it will take?

Being welcomed with open arms?

Where all those WMDs are?

Uranium purchasing from Niger?

How much money it will cost?

How well it will stabilize the entire region?

All those ties to al Qaeda?

How well the rest of the world will eventually fall in line and support the cause?

How many troops are needed for post-war planning?

Didn't need a fucking post-war plan in the first place?

How it will scare Iran and other Axis of Evil players and wannabes away from building nukes and being so gosh darn eeevil?

How much more peaceful Israel will be with its neighbors?

How American support will continue to be on your side?

How many of these fucking claims have turned in your favor, champ? How often have you been fucking right on anything with regards to this war? And you want us to believe you for the upcoming war with Iran? Gee, I wonder why the American public doesn't have the heart for more deaths via pre-emptive/Bush Doctrine strike in an endless war of choice?

Stop fucking blaming the Democrats, champ - you blame the rest of the public as well. It's clear from the most recent polls such as this one:

http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/CBSNe...na-congress.pdf

45% want the Democratic-controlled Congress to focus on Iraq. The next item, economy/jobs is at 7%. Combined with the disapproval of Bush's handling of the Iraqi war at 72%, I'd say it's not merely the Democrats that have a problem with the direction of this war of choice created by the neocon architects and their philosophy.

You try very hard to pin down Democrats as the ones that are so gosh darn anti-American/anti-troop/anti-patriotic, but you little fucking neocons are the lonely ones out on the island from here on out and you know it, and it's only getting worse for you, not better. We've got the public support on our side, and it's there for good reason. Your plans of continual invasion and endless war to solve problems associated with terrorism and al Qaeda are nothing shy of insane and ill-conceived.

But it is WE who are against the troops and against America since we wanted you dipshits to outline a viable post-war plan to get us the fuck outa there and have the Iraqi government stabilize their own country in a MINIMALLY coherent manner? You haven't even come close to that most generalized plan and it's only getting worse, not better.

And now you brilliant twits come up with a 30,000 man surge strategy that doesn't even focus on training the Iraqi security forces? Well not only is your plan on public support so incredibly low as fuck on that one (polls range from 8-16% public support), not only do you have the Joint Chiefs of Staff, a healthy number of top military brass against you (including the top two generals you are replacing - strange coincidence, huh?), not only do you NOT have hardly any Democrats but even a healthy number of Republican politicians against you, but you're even losing your fucking blowhard mouthpieces one by one in your Noise Chamber. Add George Will and David Brooks to the growing list of anti-Americans and pro-terrorists:

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/e...t_id=1003528647

And to top it off, you have these wide-eyed plans to invade another country. Yeah, things have gone so fucking swimmingly so far with your unrelenting ambition, I guess we should just keep going. Better start recruiting some more Republican keyboardists to actually pick up a fucking gun and stand the line, champ - your numbers of military folks are dwindling fast.

And yes, whether you want to admit it or not it doesn't change the fact that our invasion has done nothing but improve the status and recruitment of al Qaeda, as it also improves the status of Iran and the Shiite regime in the Middle East. These statements are undeniable.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Because in all reality, bin Laden has nothing but high praise for your ill-planned invasion in Iraq, and Iran has nothing but sincere gratitude for installing a fundamentalist Shiite regime with close ties to their own country.

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 And to top it off, you have these wide-eyed plans to invade another country.

My last post deals with those rather odd statements.

quote:

And all this talk about Iran and Bin Laden 'happy' we invaded Iraq... Give me a break, I don't think they like a democracy accountable by the people & elections in their own backyard. With more than 100,000 American and Coalition Troops next door. They want us OUT of the middle east, what do you think they've been trying to do for 20 years? Terrorise the shit out of us to get us to go running. Now we're really in there and two muslim countries, Afganistan & Iraq, even Pakistan are now counted as OUR allies. They don't have 100k troops in our backyard, that's what they would be happy about, instead we've got them surrounded and on the run. Bin Laden has said he expected us to go running after 9/11 from the region and instead we've messed their entire safe haven and training camps in Afganistan and another hostile regime in Iraq. Bin Laden is in a cave hiding. And stop with the 'If US invaded Iran they'd be bogged down' BS. EVERYONE knows we don't want to invade or have a ground war, or regime change. Stop using that dumb arguement that we'd be bogged down like Iraq crap. We're going to bomb their Nuke research and send it back ten years.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC My last post deals with those rather odd statements.

Let's examine your statements then:

quote:

And all this talk about Iran and Bin Laden 'happy' we invaded Iraq... Give me a break, I don't think they like a democracy accountable by the people & elections in their own backyard.

Is that what you call Iraq right now? Hmmm, with "democracies" like theirs run by a fundamentalist government with ties to Iran, a civil war brewing with our forces caught in the middle, and government death-squads running around murdering dissenters by the thousands....

man I'd hate to see what you consider anarchy.

Good ol' "democracy". Just ignore that little number of 23,000 citizens killed last year:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...mail/components

quote:

With more than 100,000 American and Coalition Troops next door.

Goodness, I keep forgetting how well things are going there with our involvement, and how that's somehow helping our cause and hurting theirs. How silly of me to not see the pretty flowers and rose pedals .

quote:

They want us OUT of the middle east, what do you think they've been trying to do for 20 years? Terrorise the shit out of us to get us to go running. Now we're really in there and two muslim countries, Afganistan & Iraq, even Pakistan are now counted as OUR allies.

And in lieu of these actions, this has hurt al Qaeda and the terrorists how again? Oh wait, you're about to get to that part:

quote:

They don't have 100k troops in our backyard, that's what they would be happy about,

And we would love the removal of all dictators and a world comprised of democracy similar to ours. So what? Wishful thinking is irrelevant. Do you see all of our wishes coming true? Better not tell that to all those dictators we keep helping out to further our cause.

quote:

instead we've got them surrounded and on the run.

Oh dear, you'd better turn your eyes away from this assessment then:

quote:

Rather than being subdued by the war in Iraq, Al Qaeda has "changed its modus operandi," and is using Iraq as a training ground for future terrorists and as a propaganda tool in its war against the West. Those are some of the findings of a British parliamentary committee, reports the Daily Telegraph Monday. The committee also reports that the war on terror has increased the likelihood of another "brutal attack" on Britain, similar to the one that occurred in London a year ago this week. "Despite a number of successes targeting the leadership and infrastructure of Al Qaeda, the danger of international terrorism, whether from Al Qaeda or other related groups, has not diminished and may well have increased," it says. "Al Qaeda continues to pose an extremely serious and brutal threat to the United Kingdom and its interests." The members of the foreign affairs select committee who wrote the report also cite evidence that tactics used by Al Qaeda in Iraq are increasingly being used by other groups. http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/t...al_qaeda_iraq-0

That report coincides with one of our intelligence assessments as well here in January of 2005:

quote:

Iraq New Terror Breeding Ground War Created Haven, CIA Advisers Report http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...-2005Jan13.html

and June of 2005:

quote:

Iraq May Be Prime Place for Training of Militants, C.I.A. Report Concludes.... http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/22/i...hk6eZczgfz4tvew

I sincerely doubt much has changed for the better since then. Further corroboration from International Institute for Strategic Studies back in '04:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/3756650.stm

Not to mention the Taliban resurgence in Afghanistan:

http://www.cfr.org/publication/10551/
http://www.onlinenews.com.pk/details.php?id=107037

And we all know why:

http://www.guelphmercury.com/NASApp...l=1050421501457

And that lovely drug industry has only become more profitable exponentially.

quote:

Bin Laden has said he expected us to go running after 9/11 from the region and instead we've messed their entire safe haven and training camps in Afganistan and another hostile regime in Iraq. Bin Laden is in a cave hiding.

Well thank goodness we invaded Iraq! I guess the next bin-Laden type of terrorist comes along, we should invade Canada perhaps. And thank goodness we took our eye off of bin Laden, gave that job to the corrupt Afghan warlords, and went after a hapless dictator! All connected so coherently, of course.

And I keep forgetting what the original rationales by this Administration was for invading again. Do you remember? Wasn't it something like disarming WMDs and disrupting al Qaeda-Iraq operational ties? Hmm, for some reason I just keep forgetting those primary rationales. I guess I should just keep in mind the most current neocon rationale instead.

quote:

And stop with the 'If US invaded Iran they'd be bogged down' BS. EVERYONE knows we don't want to invade or have a ground war, or regime change.

I think a regime change is not a point of contention - everyone on all sides wants a regime change, or at the very least a change in direction. The question is how it should be performed.

quote:

Stop using that dumb arguement that we'd be bogged down like Iraq crap. We're going to bomb their Nuke research and send it back ten years.

Who's "we"? Are you from Israel? You didn't just get America confused with Israel again on purpose, did you?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN thats pretty disingenuous. you cant possibly label an entire institution like that. soldiers have committed great acts of heroism and sacrifice just as they have committed acts of barbarity. just because you disagree with the invasion of iraq doesnt mean you shouldnt feel something for the men and women on the ground whom had no control over the decision to deploy. like it or not, militaries are essential. if only because it stops people like you and i being sent off to war.

That's exactly what the military is, an institution for brainwashing young individual to strip them of their individuality, critical & independant thinking, and make obedient hitmen out of them for the biggest thug of them all, the state. I'm not saying everyone in the military is evil, there's plently of good people in it, they just wake up to what the military is when the situation presents itself (i.e. War, but agression or state sponsored terrorism is more suitable term). I have the utmost respect for memeber who refuse to serve the facist entity know as the state, including IDF soldiers, and those exposing the degenerate and barbaric practices and protocols in the military. They're people who carry out the worst forms of agression and terrorism for their masters the state. And you have to be brainwashed to compromise your critical thinknig and your concience in order to do that. But every indivdual is responsible for the consequence of his action or inactions at the end of the day. Which is why I stopped sympathiznig with their positions ages ago (for the most part). 99 % of war have nothing to do with genuine self defense or any noble cause whatsoever. Most people just never come to question theory and see what cetain institution are in practice.

quote:

Originally posted by DevilDogUSMC Cyrus - No care for human life? He's talking about a way to strike Iran's nuke facilities without explosives compared to tactical nukes. Think he's being considerate of life moron... And all this talk about Iran and Bin Laden 'happy' we invaded Iraq... Give me a break, I don't think they like a democracy accountable by the people & elections in their own backyard. With more than 100,000 American and Coalition Troops next door. They want us OUT of the middle east, what do you think they've been trying to do for 20 years? Terrorise the shit out of us to get us to go running. Now we're really in there and two muslim countries, Afganistan & Iraq, even Pakistan are now counted as OUR allies. They don't have 100k troops in our backyard, that's what they would be happy about, instead we've got them surrounded and on the run. Bin Laden has said he expected us to go running after 9/11 from the region and instead we've messed their entire safe haven and training camps in Afganistan and another hostile regime in Iraq. Bin Laden is in a cave hiding. And stop with the 'If US invaded Iran they'd be bogged down' BS. EVERYONE knows we don't want to invade or have a ground war, or regime change. Stop using that dumb arguement that we'd be bogged down like Iraq crap. We're going to bomb their Nuke research and send it back ten years. Look who's talking, you resort to juvenile name calling and cursing when you don't have anything productive to say. And once in a blue after making generalized comments about the military you put (some of them). It's not MOST of them so you should word it differently moron. Since some are dumbass and most are good people then you should stop labeling them every chance you get as rapists and murderers.

You're really in no position to argue or criticize anyone here my friend. Not just me, several others here have crushed your arguments and credibility with which you respond with empty apologetic comments trying to save face. You should consider doing better research before you debate an issue here. There several people here who've done their homework. If you want to stand a change agaisnt them, you still have alot to learn.

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