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| Originally posted by Lilith Does the US still maintain some sort of 'Well regulated militia' independantly organised defence forces in a sense or has that been more or less rolled in with the local reservist type forces? (National Guard I think theyre called) It's been quite awhile since I spoke to any of the US gun-nuts. On principle of personal security I've owned firearms all my life except when I lived in England for awhile and was little, even then there where shotguns and stuff about the farm. Still do own a couple, if I was in the US I'd probably be consider being self-armed a practical part of life. |
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| Originally posted by MrSquirrel star-traveller apparently follows the word of the almighty Putin above all else, where Democracy is a loosely defined concept (at best). |
Putin is a very democratic leader, I agree. His problem is that he is a pussy when it comes to rooting out corruption, mafia, crime and illegal immigration. But when he tries to crack down on criminal elements, the western media portrays it as clampdown on democracy, as in Berezovskiy case. Russia has produced strong enough against Berezovskiy that even Interpol has issued a warrant for his arrest now.
It's probably because no one trusts a former spook.
A lot of the ex-KGB people went on to fund highly successful business's on both sides of the law so it has painted the entire structure with a bit of a black mark. After all, they where (probably still are) the worlds most efficient and highly successful intelligence services around with long reaching and murky contacts most everywhere.
Very clever
Trustworthy, never.
As for how 'democratic' he is, there tends to be a bit of messing with that process as well, like how he replaced the direct federal election of regional presidents and governers by being popular nominee's. To having them either approved or disapproved by presidential decree, after that was done he can more or less push through anything he wants when it comes to the governer's proposals, they arent disapproved.
That to me at least seems to encourage neopotism at the highest levels.
Sure, it might get things done very efficiently but I would worry, what is being done exactly to moderate things going through with no opposition at all.
We're also very leery of what is happening to Russian reporters and journalists over there, quite a lot of them get murdered, and by quite a lot, I mean a lot get killed when they go nosing around anything contraversial or corrupt.
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| Originally posted by Lilith It's probably because no one trusts a former spook. A lot of the ex-KGB people went on to fund highly successful business's on both sides of the law so it has painted the entire structure with a bit of a black mark. After all, they where (probably still are) the worlds most efficient and highly successful intelligence services around with long reaching and murky contacts most everywhere. Very clever Trustworthy, never. As for how 'democratic' he is, there tends to be a bit of messing with that process as well, like how he replaced the direct federal election of regional presidents and governers by being popular nominee's. To having them either approved or disapproved by presidential decree, after that was done he can more or less push through anything he wants when it comes to the governer's proposals, they arent disapproved. That to me at least seems to encourage neopotism at the highest levels. Sure, it might get things done very efficiently but I would worry, what is being done exactly to moderate things going through with no opposition at all. We're also very leery of what is happening to Russian reporters and journalists over there, quite a lot of them get murdered, and by quite a lot, I mean a lot get killed when they go nosing around anything contraversial or corrupt. |
Well I'm not biased or a part of the western media.
Just the simple fact is that when you do a head count, theres a lot being killed and while that in of itself is something of an occupational hazard it seems depending on where you are in the world, it indirectly affects other journalists there who quickly come to the conclusion that there are some things you shouldnt touch. Or you will get killed or otherwise 'evaporate', some things should be covered but the people who are sticking their necks out to do it are getting killed if they do.
Bit more poking in my travels also reveals that of the 3 main television networks in Russia, 3 are owned by people who are directly loyal to Putin which would also make me question the quality of the media services there.
Berezovsky is interesting in this point as well because he once owned one of those TV networks and regardless of what he may or may not have done, its not my place to judge, that same said network ended up in the hands of a Putin loyalist.
Interesting indeed.
It's all very well to mock the US and its Freedom of Information, Press and it's journalistic 'integrity' but all's not well in Russia either.
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| Originally posted by Lilith Well I'm not biased or a part of the western media. Just the simple fact is that when you do a head count, theres a lot being killed and while that in of itself is something of an occupational hazard it seems depending on where you are in the world, it indirectly affects other journalists there who quickly come to the conclusion that there are some things you shouldnt touch. Or you will get killed or otherwise 'evaporate', some things should be covered but the people who are sticking their necks out to do it are getting killed if they do. Bit more poking in my travels also reveals that of the 3 main television networks in Russia, 3 are owned by people who are directly loyal to Putin which would also make me question the quality of the media services there. Berezovsky is interesting in this point as well because he once owned one of those TV networks and regardless of what he may or may not have done, its not my place to judge, that same said network ended up in the hands of a Putin loyalist. Interesting indeed. It's all very well to mock the US and its Freedom of Information, Press and it's journalistic 'integrity' but all's not well in Russia either. |
Well I guess thats a roundabout way of ignoring facts on media ownership if ever there was.
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| Originally posted by Lilith Well I guess thats a roundabout way of ignoring facts on media ownership if ever there was. |
I don't understand Lilith, what's a problem with media ownership?
FOX is owned by some corporation and they loyal to the White House, I don't see anybody complaining on that.
I don't see who else want and have enough resources to invest into Russia media now.
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium Putin is a very democratic leader |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium and for th first time in many years Russia is not at war with anybody |
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| Originally posted by Lilith Well I guess thats a roundabout way of ignoring facts on media ownership if ever there was. |
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| Originally posted by Dopey Chechnya, supplying arms to Iran |
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| Originally posted by Dopey Chechnya, supplying arms to Iran |
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| Originally posted by star-traveller I don't understand Lilith, what's a problem with media ownership? FOX is owned by some corporation and they loyal to the White House, I don't see anybody complaining on that |
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| Originally posted by Magnetonium There's many media networks in Russia, just like in Canada or USA. And its up to the viewers to decide which ones they want to watch or hear. Couple rich white guys own most of the media in North America, like Murdock, and we all know which direction some of his networks like Fox are going into. The situation with media in Russia is not much different than in USA, its just what the western media covers of Russian media thats crucial for the western viewer. |
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| Originally posted by star-traveller I don't see who else want and have enough resources to invest into Russia media now. |
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| Originally posted by Lilith ... Course you don't. Russia passed/or passing some laws which prohibited more than 25% of foreign nationals from investing in their media industry. There are plenty of people with the money in the world and plenty of investers lined up to buy what they can, but we're not allowed to. ... |
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| Originally posted by Lilith Oh, old Rupert is loyal only to old Rupert and whover will let him buy more media, keep his taxes low and and for that he gives the governments money so they can run their election campaigns. Scream all the outrage you want, its how it works in the US. What the problem with media ownership is... There a many TV stations in Russia, who are part of Networks and essentially one and the same, especially when the three largest of those networks are owned by Putin's mates. See now, they don't even have to give kickbacks during their terms, shoot or expel anyone for re-election advertising, its all there for free. If western media coverage is so 'poor' as you so often seem to keep making a repetitive complaint about, then perhaps you can tell me where an outside media source gets its information from in Russia? No, dont bother, during nasty things like the war with Chechnya, certain hostage situations gone to hell and fairly much anything else the western world would be free to take pictures of, it did indeed paint Russia in a poor light. So, they started an information department. This department issues all official press releases to foreign journalists working in Russia on fairly much anything important. So, if the coverage is poor, then perhaps its time to look at the source. Course you don't. Russia passed/or passing some laws which prohibited more than 25% of foreign nationals from investing in their media industry. There are plenty of people with the money in the world and plenty of investers lined up to buy what they can, but we're not allowed to. The reason they don't want to is because then they'd be at the mercy of foreign investors for their own personal political campaigns, propoganda and favorable advertising. So no Russian media industry is not like the US |
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| Originally posted by star-traveller Do you have any links on materials on this matter? |
Lilith, lets put it straight...Your quote:
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... Russia passed/or passing some laws which prohibited more than 25% of foreign nationals from investing in their media industry. ... |
Well it's not something I can exactly make up off the top of my head and besides, it's your bloody country, you should know better than I do what happens in it. Oh thats right you left.
This was roughly when I heard about it.
http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/e...0408_67180.html
When Lilith was entertaining delusions of granduer about owning a TV station somewhere in the world, then I looked into energy corps and it was even worse there... 
Bit more digging around to see if it went through.
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5237.html
Passed 3 bills to deter foreign investment.
http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5291.html
It pissed some people off as it was going to be a 50% stake -1share, instead it got much more restricted.
Course, Lilith still makes this up because she like's looking foolish on the internet and apparently has nothing better to do than make up stories.
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| Originally posted by Lilith Well it's not something I can exactly make up off the top of my head and besides, it's your bloody country, you should know better than I do what happens in it. Oh thats right you left. This was roughly when I heard about it. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/e...0408_67180.html When Lilith was entertaining delusions of granduer about owning a TV station somewhere in the world, then I looked into energy corps and it was even worse there... ![]() Bit more digging around to see if it went through. http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5237.html Passed 3 bills to deter foreign investment. http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5291.html It pissed some people off as it was going to be a 50% stake -1share, instead it got much more restricted. Course, Lilith still makes this up because she like's looking foolish on the internet and apparently has nothing better to do than make up stories. |
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| I dont see no restrictions in foreign investment in Russia |
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| Originally posted by Lilith Then you must be somewhat ignorant in the matters of economic investment. We arent scared by investing money in the place, we're restricted. Suggestion- look harder, be objective rather than defensive. If theres been no change to the law than it doesnt matter if its 6 years old or a 100. If there has been a change to the law, you go look it up. But essentially I'm done with this as a debate because theres no rebuttal, have a nice day. |
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| Originally posted by Lilith Well it's not something I can exactly make up off the top of my head and besides, it's your bloody country, you should know better than I do what happens in it. Oh thats right you left. This was roughly when I heard about it. http://english.peopledaily.com.cn/e...0408_67180.html When Lilith was entertaining delusions of granduer about owning a TV station somewhere in the world, then I looked into energy corps and it was even worse there... ![]() Bit more digging around to see if it went through. http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5237.html Passed 3 bills to deter foreign investment. http://www.cdi.org/russia/johnson/5291.html It pissed some people off as it was going to be a 50% stake -1share, instead it got much more restricted. Course, Lilith still makes this up because she like's looking foolish on the internet and apparently has nothing better to do than make up stories. |
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| Russian Duma Adopts Bill to Limit Foreigners' Control of Mass Media The Russian State Duma or lower house of parliament passed Thursday in its first reading a bill of limiting foreign interests in Russian mass media. The bill was adopted by 332 votes for and 22 against with three abstentions. Under the bill, foreigners, people without Russian citizenship, people holding dual citizenship or foreign legal entities can hold no more than 50 percent of the stake in Russian mass media. The bill was drafted by a group of Duma deputies who are members of the Duma committee for information policy. Alexander Chuyev from the Unity party faction, who was one of the drafters, said the bill is aimed to protect the rights of speech freedom of Russian citizens. "We deem it impossible for foreign legal entities to purchase controlling packages of shares," Chuyev said, adding that this is something related to not only the citizens' rights of speech freedom, but also the interests of Russia's security and political stability. "There have been cases where foreign legal entities and Russian legal entities with foreign interests held more than half of the capital in Russian mass media, so we initiated this legislative motion," he said. At the same time, Chuyev stressed that foreign investment is necessary for the technical development of the Russian mass media. When drafting the bill, the drafters said, they took into consideration the experience of other countries in the sphere. "Such restrictions exist in the United States, France, Poland, the Czech Republic and some other European countries," Chuyev said. At the State Duma sessions discussing the bill, left-wing deputies complained that "legalization of foreign interests" in mass media will pave the way for "agents of Western influence" in Russia, while right-wing deputies said the Russian media should be protected not only from foreigners, but also from certain Russian private individuals and legal entities. |
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... Article 19.1. Limitations Regarding Founding of Television, Video Programs, as well as of Organizations (Legal Entities) that Carry on Television Broadcasting A foreign legal entity, as well as a Russian legal entity with a foreign participation, wherever the share (input) of the foreign participation in the stock (joint) capital equals or exceeds 50 percent, a citizen of the Russian Federation with a dual citizenship, may not act as founders of television, video programs. A citizen of another state, a stateless person and a citizen of the Russian Federation with a dual citizenship, a foreign legal entity, as well as a Russian legal entity with a foreign participation, wherever the share (input) of the foreign participation in the statuary (joint) capital equals or exceeds 50 percent may not act as founders of organizations (legal entities) that carry on television broadcasting of their programs over a half or more of the subjects of the Russian Federation, or the territory where a half or more of the population of the Russian Federation lives. No provision shall be made for giving away of the stock (shares) by the founder of a television, video program, - also if that happens after its registration, - by organization (legal entity) that carries on television broadcasting of its programs over a half or more of the subjects of the Russian Federation, or the territory where a half or more of the population of the Russian Federation lives, that lead to the appearance in its statuary (joint) capital of a share (input) of foreign participation that equals or exceeds 50 percent Article 19.1. was added by Federal Law No.107-FZ of August 4, 2001. ... |
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... SEC. 310. [47 U.S.C. 310] LIMITATION ON HOLDING AND TRANSFER OF LICENSES. (a) The station license required under this Act shall not be granted to or held by any foreign government or the representative thereof. (b) No broadcast or common carrier or aeronautical en route or aeronautical fixed radio station license shall be granted to or held by-- (1) any alien or the representative of any alien; (2) any corporation organized under the laws of any foreign government; (3) any corporation of which more than one-fifth of the capital stock is owned of record or voted by aliens or their representatives or by a foreign government or representative thereof or by any corporation organized under the laws of a foreign country; (4) any corporation directly or indirectly controlled by any other corporation of which more than one-fourth of the capital stock is owned of record or voted by aliens, their representatives, or by a foreign government or representative thereof, or by any corporation organized under the laws of a foreign country, if the Commission finds that the public interest will be served by the refusal or revocation of such license. (c) In addition to amateur station licenses which the Commission may issue to aliens pursuant to this Act, the Commission may issue authorizations, under such conditions and terms as it may prescribe, to permit an alien licensed by his government as an amateur radio operator to operate his amateur radio station licensed by his government in the United States, its possessions, and the Commonwealth of Puerto Rico provided there is in effect a multilateral or bilateral agreement, to which the United States and the alien's government are parties, for such operation on a reciprocal basis by United States amateur radio operators. Other provisions of this Act and of the Administrative Procedure Act shall not be applicable to any request or application for or modification, suspension, or cancellation of any such authorization. (d) No construction permit or station license, or any rights thereunder, shall be transferred, assigned, or disposed of in any manner, voluntarily or involuntarily, directly or indirectly, or by transfer of control of any corporation holding such permit or license, to any person except upon application to the Commission and upon finding by the Commission that the public interest, convenience, and necessity will be served thereby. Any such application shall be disposed of as if the proposed transferee or assignee were making application under section 308 for the permit or license in question; but in acting thereon the Commission may not consider whether the public interest, convenience, and necessity might be served by the transfer, assignment, or disposal of the permit or license to a person other than the proposed transferee or assignee. (e)(1) In the case of any broadcast station, and any ownership interest therein, which is excluded from the regional concentration rules by reason of the savings provision for existing facilities provided by the First Report and Order adopted March 9, 1977 (docket No. 20548; 42 Fed. Reg. 16145), the exclusion shall not terminate solely by reason of changes made in the technical facilities of the station to improve its service. (2) For purposes of this subsection, the term ''regional concentration rules'' means the provisions of sections 73.35, 73.240, and 73.636 of title 47, Code of Federal Regulations (as in effect June 1, 1983), which prohibit any party from directly or indirectly owning, operating, or controlling three broadcast stations in one or several services where any two of such stations are within 100 miles of the third (measured city-to-city), and where there is a primary service contour overlap of any of the stations. ... |
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