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-- gay adoption [debate]
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Originally posted by Inconspicuous subsequent? Indeed. It would be. It's also not to say it's strictly either-or, though. There are good foster homes and bad same-sex relationships, as well. The point remains, though. Carry on.

Well yes, it was my subsequent post to the one you quoted. It was also my most previous post in the thread. Thanks for the semantics lesson though.

How many individuals have grown up without a father figure? Single mothers are everywhere in middle class America, and their children grow up fine if they see their father once a week.. month.. year.. or maybe never at all. The whole "Mother-Father" argument is real shit.

Whenever you have two parents, there is always the strict one, and the lenient one. The same sex couples take those roles. The kid will be fine, and I doubt the parents would try and push him to be gay.

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Originally posted by UWM Thanks for the semantics lesson though.

I aim to please.

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Originally posted by UWM Well then I guess my quote in my previous post: is more relevant to the topic.

If same sex couples can be caring and loving towards an adopted child and bring them up well, then that would be great, and especially if the couple can successfully play the roles of both a mother and father and in some way prevent the child from any hassle.

The reason why I was concerned about the child's wellbeing is that bullying is a big issue in the UK, more kids are being attacked and stabbed even for no apparent reason. ASBO familys are quite common too, especially in Scotland (where I stay and especially where I grew up). I've heard and even knew families that were bad to their kids and felt that the kid didn't deserve such a life and that social services should've took more action on the parents.

I'm still firm-minded with the mother-father issue but as I said, if gay couples can play the roles and if also society where more tolerant with the issue, then I have nothing against it.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan There are plenty of decent childless couples out who are unable to conceive children who should adopt. Shipping a kid off to a same sex union is setting a child up for a hard time. Imagine on parents evening or picking the kid up at the school gates. If kids were educated properly and told to be responsible for their actions we wouldn't even have this adoption debate.

no, if society was educated properly and a little more accepting of gay couples, then it wouldn't be an issue for the children who are adopted into gay families

I once knew a doctor who told me a story about his opinion on gay parents and homosexuality.

When he was 11, he lived with his mother and her partner in Texas. The kids at the school knew he had lesbians for parents, and often stigmatised him, calling his mom a dyke and mexican carpet muncher. Despite it all, he was a pretty normal, straight kid. One day at the bus stop, two older kids he didn't know kicked the shit out of him. He lost several teeth and nearly died, spending a couple weeks in the hospital.

Whenever he's asked about homosexuality and related issues, he just smiles with the jaw that took years of dental work to correct. It doesn't even make sense to him as an issue, that something so irrevelent and personal could cause people to hate, maim, and kill eachother.

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Originally posted by Dj O'Callaghan I agree with the point your making about Foster homes and I'm sure there is gay couples who'd raise children very well. I just think it's unfair on the child. They'd get it ripped out of them at school and given a really s*itty time.

It's up to the other kids then to be more openminded. As Slylee said, the real problem lies there.

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Originally posted by TOR It's up to the other kids then to be more openminded. As Slylee said, the real problem lies there.

yea but it's one of those things that isn't going to change. and if it does, it's going to take decades. so that's why i'm torn about the issue.

sure i'd rather see a kid go to a loving gay couple, as opposed to a fucked up hetero couple, but i wouldn't want the child to get teased all the time for it and maybe grow up to resent their "parents".


i think there should be a law that all gay couples who want to adopt have to live in areas like miami and san francisco where no one would think twice about it. lol

The argument that a same sex couple shouldn't be allowed to adopt on the grounds that they will not provide a balanced life to the child is a ridiculous statement.

Things will be different but heterosexual couples are far from always being shining examples of perfection. Also look at the divorce rates ... heterosexual couples most certainly don't value love or the well being of their children in many cases.

Also the basis that the child will suffer because of the perception has on him and his same sex parents is another lame point. Yes he may be the object of teasing from other people but this is all part of the change in society and these things will all fade away with time.
Gays, lesbians have been living out in the open for a very short time so it will take a certain number of years before they are fully accepted.

What is most important is that the child not be left without parents.
Gays and lesbians is a great new potential group of adopting parents because they will be less "demanding" about the child ( skin colour, age etc ).

Should a child not be allowed to live with someone who will cherish their presence and do everything they can to make sure the child will grow up in a loving environnement on the grounds that his parents aren't hetero?

quote:

Originally posted by Slylee i think there should be a law that all gay couples who want to adopt have to live in areas like miami and san francisco where no one would think twice about it. lol

I don't think so. Culture changes through exposure, not through theory. How many kids who are Islamic do you think get mde fun of at their schools? How many of them do you think hate their parents and homeland for that?

i was just kidding.

I know, I'm speaking against the theory of negative stigmatization, though.

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Originally posted by Fast Turtle I don't think so. Culture changes through exposure, not through theory. How many kids who are Islamic do you think get mde fun of at their schools? How many of them do you think hate their parents and homeland for that?

so it's the parents fault?

No, I'm saying, kids love and trust their parents well above strangers, even if they're treated cruelly by others.

if there where no debate on this, i think it would be ok for gay to adopt.

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Originally posted by Fast Turtle I don't think so. Culture changes through exposure, not through theory. How many kids who are Islamic do you think get mde fun of at their schools?

I even knew a guy who was an Arab Christian and got bullied after 9/11 for looking like a "terrorist," I guess because some people are too dumb to realize that not all Arabs are Muslims.

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Originally posted by HaeD if there where no debate on this, i think it would be ok for gay to adopt.

so until society accepts the homosexual community 100% there shall be no cock sucking males or carpet munching females adopting kiddies?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I even knew a guy who was an Arab Christian and got bullied after 9/11 for looking like a "terrorist," I guess because some people are too dumb to realize that not all Arabs are Muslims.

I remember defending the arab community in political class after 9/11. People are so freaking ignorant

quote:

Originally posted by jdat people are so freaking ignorant

In the end that's what it all boils down to.

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Originally posted by jdat People are so freaking ignorant

lol. The summary of the debates thus far today brought to you by...

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Originally posted by Fast Turtle I once knew a doctor who told me a story about his opinion on gay parents and homosexuality. When he was 11, he lived with his mother and her partner in Texas. The kids at the school knew he had lesbians for parents, and often stigmatised him, calling his mom a dyke and mexican carpet muncher. Despite it all, he was a pretty normal, straight kid. One day at the bus stop, two older kids he didn't know kicked the shit out of him. He lost several teeth and nearly died, spending a couple weeks in the hospital. Whenever he's asked about homosexuality and related issues, he just smiles with the jaw that took years of dental work to correct. It doesn't even make sense to him as an issue, that something so irrevelent and personal could cause people to hate, maim, and kill eachother.

Fucking ridiculous world we live in - I really, really hope that future generations see the stupidity in taking issue over such trivial things like what people do behind closed doors with one another. Sometimes it seems like we're on our way there, but then other times we take 2 steps back. It's sad to think that it will take many generations and many people dying and being injured to serve any ideal of peace and for people to actually wake up and realize that we are destroying ourselves for reasons that don't even make sense - it's even sadder to think that people may never, ever truly realize the idiocy in such actions.

This debate is a complicated one. I believe that if a responsible couple wants to adopt a child, they should be allowed to do so, completely regardless of sexual orientation. I do understand that the children of gay parents may face some adversity in their earlier lives - but I am not sure you can ever exclude any child from facing adversity for any reason. Children are faced with a multitude of challenges to overcome in a social setting - perhaps others will make fun of a kid's father because he lost his legs in Vietnam, perhaps children will mock another kid because his or her parents are of different colours, there's not really any way to ensure that children will be safe and coddled forever - and why should they be? Children grow and develop through both loving affection and overcoming the challenges of their lives, so trying to ensure the perfect atomic family is not only a pursuit in vain, but an extremely flawed one as well.

Kids will almost always be teased and face violence in school - it's not like bullying was something new, developed by childish masterminds specifically to face the threat of same sex adopted children. It seems that people's hesitation on this topic stems from them wanting to protect children from this sort of thing, as though disapproving of children being adopted by gay couples will suddenly make this go away? I think you're making the picture too big. You are trying to solve too much at once. the world will not be a peaceful after such a thing occurs, as it certainly wasn't before, but I think that by arguing for children to be adopted by any loving couple, regardless of sexual orientation, you will have brought a certain degree of peace and order to the life of a child without parents - I think that should be all that is really important.

I only got halfway through the first page and I'm already shocked at the replies. Oh nooessss, a kid is going to be mad fun of for having gay parents. If their the nuturing type, and know what they're doing they'll know how to cope with this. Kids get made fun of for EVERYTHING, he's fat, he's black, he's muslim, he's white, he has red hair. Anything. Did everybody else in here come out of the womb as an 18 year old? No. I'll say it again, if the parents are fit...and now how to be parents, they'll know how to cope with the child being made fun of in school.

edit // Yeah, what Halcyon said

Gay couples go through tough and rough procedures just to get approved, and being constantly evaluated to see if they're fit to raise a child, putting that much effort and time shows to me they really want a child and know what they are getting into.
It takes months even years for that to happen unlike straight couples where a five minute lay would do the job then call it a mistake, with gay couples it�s never a mistake they know fully well what they're getting into.
I also believe if more Gay couples adopt kids it would be a far more tolerant society in the future.

quote:

Originally posted by Plump Funk Gay couples go through tough and rough procedures just to get approved, and being constantly evaluated to see if they're fit to raise a child, putting that much effort and time shows to me they really want a child and know what they are getting into.

I very much agree with your point, but from what I have gathered, even extremely responsible straight couples go through a long, tedious procedure to get approved for adoption. It can take months and even years sometimes.

And Aunt of mine has 3 adopted children and her youngest is from Russia. I guess the process to be approved to adopt an American baby was taking years, when they ascertained a Russian baby in a matter of just a few months. I understand how the process certainly needs to be thorough, as children deserve to be put in good homes, but the bureaucracy of it all seem to be a tad too convoluted in too many cases of good, responsible people wanting to take care of children without parents.

I'm for tougher adoption screening all around, no matter if the couple is homosexual, heterosexual, or someone single.

I also believe that being a parent is more of a responsibility than being married and if a state stops homosexuals from marrying it makes sense they shouldn't be allowed to adopt.

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