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-- Do you support racial profiling of Arabs/Muslims?
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Originally posted by sterilis simple fact is that a suicide bomber is male and of arab origin.

that kind of thinking will lead to disaster

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Just today we stopped a man with a fucking massive knife trying to get through security. Was he an arab? No, he was swedish. Simple fact - you are a generalizing, racist idiot.

im far from racist. was that guy planning to take over the plane? did he have a legitimate reason for having this knife? was it televised on news? no. obviously the guy had the knife for a reason. i have nail clippers that has a pretty sharp knife in it i bring it on holiday with me all the time. im not planning a plane hi jacking.

facts are that suicide bombers are arab. how many suicide bombers taht are white have you came across or heard about.... ill answer that for you none. why? muslim religion doesnt accept a white person as a legitimate muslim so therefore their not allowed to take part in muslim ceremonies in muslim countries. there are muslim sympatheizers that are white.

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Originally posted by sterilis im far from racist. was that guy planning to take over the plane? did he have a legitimate reason for having this knife? was it televised on news? no. obviously the guy had the knife for a reason. i have nail clippers that has a pretty sharp knife in it i bring it on holiday with me all the time. im not planning a plane hi jacking.

We're not talking about a fucking nail clipper here, I'm saying it was a really big fucking knife you could easily kill a man with. The police took him, and I have no idea what happened afterwards.

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facts are that suicide bombers are arab. how many suicide bombers taht are white have you came across or heard about.... ill answer that for you none. why? muslim religion doesnt accept a white person as a legitimate muslim so therefore their not allowed to take part in muslim ceremonies in muslim countries. there are muslim sympatheizers that are white.

You really haven't got the faintest clue on what you're talking about, do you? You're stereotyping an entire race based on few exceptions. You are prejudiced against them. You are a racist.

I'm done.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery We're not talking about a fucking nail clipper here, I'm saying it was a really big fucking knife you could easily kill a man with. The police took him, and I have no idea what happened afterwards. You really haven't got the faintest clue on what you're talking about, do you? You're stereotyping an entire race based on few exceptions. You are prejudiced against them. You are a racist. I'm done.

believe me i do no what im talking about and if you read my first post properly you would have seen that i wrote obviously its only a small few that are terrorists so how am i stereotyping an entire race

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Originally posted by sterilis i think they should search only arabs. whats the point in stopping a white family who are obviously not suicide bombers. everyone knows the only people who are suicide bombers are arabs.

So you've been standing on the corner of every suicide bombing ever to have occured? You've been in every country where one has happened, you've seen news reports, official police reports and other documents from every suicide bombing ever and every single one of the thousands throughout countries that have a very minute middle eastern population and every single one of them have been "Arab"?

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that might sound racist but its a simple fact. when people come into a country they should obey the laws not demand their laws to be recognised. chinese people come over and never threaten with suicide bombers or complain about the laws or want their kids to be allowed what they want in school. if you dont like the law dont move over.

Most people of middle eastern decent, hell, of any descent, come over because they're looking for a better life. Only a finite amount of immigrants come over with the sole purpose to harm us. These aren't just middle easterns, these are asians, europeans, south americans, north americans, etc. They know what type of country they're coming into. They disagree with our beliefs and our laws before they even step foot in our country. That is why they come over.

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obviously it is only a select view that are terrorists

Then why did you write what I quoted just above this?

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but if you search only the arabs then they will soon get fed up protecting the terrorists (as they do) and give them up if questioned. all these people live in the same streets they are all close and no each other very well so theres no excuse for them not being searched.

And how do you know this? You're 110% certain that just because they're middle eastern that they're connected and in communication with terrorists? Bull fucking shit. Do you have any clue how many are passionately against terrorism? That fight to stop it, that believe in a way of life other than what you think the "evil arabs" want?

Oh, right. They're all Arabs. Guess they're really lying to us.

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furthermore, irish people in the 1970's were arrested and interned for weeks at a time. some spend years in jail without trial. alot were innocent so what makes these people different from the irish. why are they getting special priviledges?

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Also the irish had legitimate reasons for their compaign. the british were in our country and were not wanted.

... and we're in a country where we're not wanted. To put it bluntly...

You, sir, are an ignoramus and it is a disgrace to admit that I belong to the same species as you.

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Originally posted by sterilis how many white suicide bombers have thier been?

Yeah, like, who would think of a "white" terrorist?



The only difference was that he didn't decided to die on the spot, but the loss was worse than that of your average suicide bomber.

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Originally posted by idoru ... and we're in a country where we're not wanted. To put it bluntly... You, sir, are an ignoramus and it is a disgrace to admit that I belong to the same species as you.

the only ignoramous here is you. for you to give me a statement like were in a country where were not wanted. damn right your not wanted. what percentage of iraqi's invited america and britain to come over and fuck their country up..... roughly under 10%.

another thing dont talk about stuff you havent got a clue about. the irish were murdered, beat up, locked up for fuck all by the british in their own country so dont give me any of that shit. ive seen it.

now my point being that im in ireland and i have to obey a british system and rule of law. i might not like it but i obide by it. we have staunch republicans noe signing up to a police force that also killed innocent catholics.

now i had nothing against these muslims but when they planned a terror attack in belfast all my respect for them went out the window. what irish soldier is in iraq or afghanistan....none. so what gives them a right to try and blow us up?

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Originally posted by sterilis believe me i do no what im talking about

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Originally posted by Dopey

the name definately suits

not for it. im half white half egyptian who looks white and i get extra searched everytime i get out of the los angeles airport (and i have a us passport and was born here) haha wtf.

my grandfather, who is full egyptian, says he doesnt mind the extra search if it is to keep everyone safe.

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Originally posted by sterilis now i had nothing against these muslims but when they planned a terror attack in belfast all my respect for them went out the window. what irish soldier is in iraq or afghanistan....none. so what gives them a right to try and blow us up?

so based on the actions of a few, you have your opinion about a whole group of people. you're dumb.

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Originally posted by hadi ****** so based on the actions of a few, you have your opinion about a whole group of people. you're dumb.

well maybe if they all got a reality check and saw how stupid it is to believe your going to get 70 virgins when you die. alot of the god stuff does get far fetched but this takes the biscuit.

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Originally posted by sterilis the only ignoramous here is you. for you to give me a statement like were in a country where were not wanted. damn right your not wanted. what percentage of iraqi's invited america and britain to come over and fuck their country up..... roughly under 10%. another thing dont talk about stuff you havent got a clue about. the irish were murdered, beat up, locked up for fuck all by the british in their own country so dont give me any of that shit. ive seen it. now my point being that im in ireland and i have to obey a british system and rule of law. i might not like it but i obide by it. we have staunch republicans noe signing up to a police force that also killed innocent catholics. now i had nothing against these muslims but when they planned a terror attack in belfast all my respect for them went out the window. what irish soldier is in iraq or afghanistan....none. so what gives them a right to try and blow us up?

The more than 90% (based off of the beginning of your post) that didn't do anything to warrant us being there is what gives them reason to do it, you idiot. I love how you ask a question at the end of your post, when you already went and typed out the answer at the beginning.

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Originally posted by idoru The more than 90% (based off of the beginning of your post) that didn't do anything to warrant us being there is what gives them reason to do it, you idiot. I love how you ask a question at the end of your post, when you already went and typed out the answer at the beginning.

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so what gives them a right to try and blow us up?

where did i answer that?

Seriously people, keep this civil.

Playing devils (or sterilis') advocate...

If you have a threat, and limited resources available to fight that threat, does it not make sense to target your resources in the most probable areas?

For instance, if a particular area of a city has a high crime rate, and the police increase their patrols in that area, does that qualify as profiling?

In both circumstances you're using what you have in the most efficient manner by looking at past trends and concentrating your efforts in the most likely of places.

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Originally posted by sterilis well maybe if they all got a reality check and saw how stupid it is to believe your going to get 70 virgins when you die. alot of the god stuff does get far fetched but this takes the biscuit.

where do people get this number of virgins business. i have never heard that except from people who aren't muslim. when someone commits suicide, it is one of the really bad sins in islam and killing another human is compared to killing all of humanity. why don't you get a reality check? do you understand that these people/extremists are less then 1% of the whole religion? do you ever do any research and see how many muslims are speaking out against any terrorist act that takes place?

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Originally posted by sterilis where did i answer that?

Right here...

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Originally posted by sterilis what gives them a right to try and blow us up?

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Originally posted by sterilis Also the irish had legitimate reasons for their compaign. the british were in our country and were not wanted. its not as if the irish were born in england or moved there then cried about laws or threatened with suicide bombers.

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Originally posted by sterilis what percentage of iraqi's invited america and britain to come over and fuck their country up..... roughly under 10%.

Do you not see your hypocrisy?

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Originally posted by hadi ****** where do people get this number of virgins business. i have never heard that except from people who aren't muslim. when someone commits suicide, it is one of the really bad sins in islam and killing another human is compared to killing all of humanity. why don't you get a reality check? do you understand that these people/extremists are less then 1% of the whole religion? do you ever do any research and see how many muslims are speaking out against any terrorist act that takes place?

The Koran's promise that martyrs will be rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven. The Koran describes the women as "beautiful like rubies, with complexions like diamonds and pearls."

the koran i believe is the muslim bible.

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"O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11]

you people call me a racist when this is your teachings.

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Originally posted by idoru Do you not see your hypocrisy?

if you read my post it explains that no irish were born in england who were involved in the bomibing campaign, the muslims who carried out the 7/7 bombings were english born and bred. the ones that are still planning attacks are english. so their killing their own. the irish were simply doing to the british what they had done to the irish.

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Seriously people, keep this civil. Playing devils (or sterilis') advocate... If you have a threat, and limited resources available to fight that threat, does it not make sense to target your resources in the most probable areas? For instance, if a particular area of a city has a high crime rate, and the police increase their patrols in that area, does that qualify as profiling? In both circumstances you're using what you have in the most efficient manner by looking at past trends and concentrating your efforts in the most likely of places.

*GASP!*

YOU ARE USING LOGIC! This an emotional argument! You can't do that!!!

:faints:

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Originally posted by sterilis quote: "O ye who believe! Take not the Jews and the Christians for friends. They are friends one to another. He among you who taketh them for friends is (one) of them. Lo! Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk." [al-Ma'idah 5:51.11] you people call me a racist when this is your teachings.

No, but I sure as hell can call you ignorant for taking on face value a poor translation from someone who isn't bilingual. One of the earlierst English translations of the Quran was done by Muhammad Marmaduke William Pickthall, who was an English convert to Islam, in 1930. Arabic obviously wasn't his first language and semetic languages differ significantly from Proto-Germanic languages such as English. Another English translation that followed shortly after that was the work of Abdullah Yusuf Ali, an Indian who's first language was neigther English nor Arabic, in 1934. I would hardly consider those to be free from errors, terrible mistranslations, and biases of their personal interpretations. Maybe you're not aware of this. but the Quran is in Arabic, in it's original form, and original language. Anything else is considered to be a tranlation and not the actual Quran. There's not many English translations that exist in the first place and most of them are very poorly done, by people who eigther have a poor command of English or Arabic, and sometimes even both. And most English tranlation since then, with a few exceptions, aren't terribly different and are more often than not derivitive of older translations.

Having said that, if you know anything about semetic languages, Arabic in particular, you should be well aware of the fact that many word have a several different shades, and even completely different meanings. Alot of those words have no equivilant in English, which is another reason for poor translations. This particular verse is a very good example of that. The actual word in Arabic doesn't mean 'friends,' it has no equivilant in English. The closest English equivilant would be overlord or ally. But even that's not entirely accurate. The word is more akin to someone who looks after or shares your intertests.

Here's another claim Islam (or the Qur'an) makes about itself with respect to Judaism and Christianity. The Torah and Bible are considered to be previous revelations and book from Allah that no longer exist in their original forms and have ben corrupted by man over the centuries to suit the interests of particularly those in power through the course of history, especially corrupt or misguided Rabbis and Clerics/Preists, kind of like a good majority of Mullahs around today. Except they rely on ignorance and mistranslation as opposed to modifying the actual text.

Another aspect to interpreting the Qur'an that is considered essential for any meanigful understanding of it is keeping in mind the historical contenxt of the Surah (chapter) and verses in context to that Surah.

This particular Surah, Al-Ma'idah, was one of the last few Surah to be revealed to Muhammad. Now keep in mind everything I just said so far in this entire post. So this verse has nothing to do with not being 'friends' with Chrisitans or Jews, or being prejudiced/hostile towards them. Also, back in the day, it wasn't only the Pagan tribes of Media and Mecca, particularly the Quraish, who were very hostile to this new religion/ideology that threatened the status quo and the then power structure, but even some Chrisitans and Jews, which Muslims and the Quran consider people of the Book. Now this is where it gets kind of politically incorrect, so I apologize in advance. This verse was meant to be a reminder to Muslims to not go astray from Allah teachings like many Jews and Christians had done so in the past, and not to expect them to necessarily be sympathetic or understanding towards Muslims and their plight.

So I hope that cleared any misconceptions you have. I apologize if my tone is somewhat aggressive, but it really pisses me off since this verse is so often used to promote both anti-Muslim sentiment and propaganda in the West, particularly by [some] preachers/bishops/priests, Rabbis, and the media, most of who out of ignorance probably think genuinly think that's what it means, and by [some] Imams and Mullahs in the East (and even the West) to promote anti-Western sentiment and legitimize their sick agendas. [EDIT:] And I think it's fair to say their motivations are far from spirtual, promoting peace, understanding, or talerance. Seems to be working wonders for them apparently. [/EDIT]

I'm a little sick of both non-Muslims and Muslims being clubbed on the head with a distorted misrepresentation of the meaning of this verse to promote distrust and/or hatred.

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Originally posted by sterilis The Koran's promise that martyrs will be rewarded with 70 virgins in heaven. The Koran describes the women as "beautiful like rubies, with complexions like diamonds and pearls." the koran i believe is the muslim bible. you people call me a racist when this is your teachings.

the quran doesn't (up to my knowledge) promise anyone 70 virgins in heaven. and that other part is probably a poor translation. did you know when islam first started, they took in jews and christians into their cities and lived amongst them as friends. in the quran, it says people of the book are christians, jews and muslims. all religions of the same God. do some research instead of taking the first thing you see to fit your narrow point of view. also, if you want to quote the quran, try getting a new version of it and checking how those are translated. even then some of the translations are wrong.

edit: thnx shaolin_Z for posting that

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Originally posted by hadi ****** edit: thnx shaolin_Z for posting that

No worries .

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Originally posted by NeoPhono Seriously people, keep this civil. Playing devils (or sterilis') advocate... If you have a threat, and limited resources available to fight that threat, does it not make sense to target your resources in the most probable areas? For instance, if a particular area of a city has a high crime rate, and the police increase their patrols in that area, does that qualify as profiling? In both circumstances you're using what you have in the most efficient manner by looking at past trends and concentrating your efforts in the most likely of places.

This is true, but i don't agree with the current implementation, it is half thought and poorly implemented. A more comprehensive and well developed strategy that would minimize inconvinience for low probability target needs to be developed for people to agree with it.

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Originally posted by hadi ****** the quran doesn't (up to my knowledge) promise anyone 70 virgins in heaven. and that other part is probably a poor translation. did you know when islam first started, they took in jews and christians into their cities and lived amongst them as friends. in the quran, it says people of the book are christians, jews and muslims. all religions of the same God. do some research instead of taking the first thing you see to fit your narrow point of view. also, if you want to quote the quran, try getting a new version of it and checking how those are translated. even then some of the translations are wrong. edit: thnx shaolin_Z for posting that

everything can be translating in some way.

also if the quran had been updated and things changed which people follow it again emphasises the stupidity of the belief in it.

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