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-- How to enforce democracy in Russia?
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Originally posted by Lilith You can believe in Santa Claus if it helps you sleep better at night,

That very belief allows me to sleep; that plus a glass of wine and an Ambian.

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Originally posted by star-traveller You very miserable with the posts like here. What are you trying to achieve with that lie? Convince a bunch of people who are unaware of the current situation in Russia that all that bullshit you wrote is true? Man, sometimes I think you had a really bad experience in Russia (If what you said last time is true, and you've actualy been there). Maybe some Russians even beat a hell out of you. If that was true, I'm glad that you got that.

lol shows how little of Russians you know. When was the last time youve been there? I have been there 8times in the past three yrs. Been to Moscow, St petersburg, omsk, irkutsk, novosibirsk, went to Kamchatka with a bunch of native Russians who i just had meet. Also went to volgograd and perm. I can tell you from conversations i have had was that they WANT Western goods. My friend, who is russian, told me that all his relatives want nothing but western goods. Its also everywhere on the streets on moscow. it isn't that these evil corporations are spreading their power. their goods are just in demand.

And another thing Russians are completly brainwashed about EVERY topic. At least here when Fox said that Obama attened a Islam school and made it look evil, cnn went out of their way to prove fox wrong and call them out of it. In russia you don't get that. I can't speak Russian but this one time i went to moscow i slept in some married couples house. The couple were young and they were telling me how in russia the media is nothing but anti america and that they never really debate against each other. So you never get the Fox vs CNN thing. Back to the beginning sentence, arguing with most russians is complety useless because they are brainwashed and the ones who come here suffer from a inferiority complex because they miss their motherland. Since thier motherland is the GREATEST in the world:rollseyes:. But that is the majority of Russians believe thier country is the GREATEST in the world.


Ever been to a supermarket? You always see Russians girls dressing up really nice and than there are the rich ones who come out wearing gucci or versaci and diamonds. They would be really easy to rob but they always have the policemen as bodyguards. Oh and a bunch of the "new russians" were communist party members or KGB who made their money by selling state property to the oligarches.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid lol shows how little of Russians you know. When was the last time ...

Look man, I'm starting to get really pissed of you and that bullshit that comes out of your mouth.

I don't have any wish to start arguing with you and that crap you wrote, 'cause you don't even want to listen to what other ppl say to you.

I've been living there for 23yrs and after that several yrs abroad. I don't miss it and I don't have any inferiority complex on that. I just can't stand when a miserable ppl like you start pouring bullshit on that country.

You remind me one Russian comic actor (M. Zadornov). He really hates America and says a lot of bullshit about it (btw, exactly the same things you said here towards Russia). Everybody in Russia knows that, but nobody is using his point to build-up a view of the real America.

So, you can keep pouring that crap if it makes you feel better. But I doubt many people really listen and believe to what you say here.

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Originally posted by star-traveller

Look all iam trying to point out is that Russia is better off with an authocratic ruler and not something else.

Re: Re: Re: How to enforce democracy in Russia?

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Well, then, dont whine about your so-called lack of democracy in Russia, because they cant do it overnight. How many generations did it take for the West to evolve their democratic vision? Well, dont expect Russia ON ITS OWN to develop a perfectly functional, equal to West democracy in 10 years or less. My point is, if you dont help Russia, there's no point in complaining. Russia has lived under monarchy, communism, authoritarian rule for centuries and today, eve though its not perfect, its the best DEMOCRACY Russia ever had. And it will get better, whether you continue whining or not.

lol watch the Western world step in and create a huge diplomatic incident.

Russia doesn't want outsiders mixed in with their business.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Look all iam trying to point out is that Russia is better off with an authocratic ruler and not something else.

no, no. All you do is trying to look like that stupid guy Zadornov but towards Russia.

You don't even speak Russian, jesus man, how can you point out anything for this country at all.

You've been there as a tourist few times and now trying make a fargoing conclusions?? Man, get a grip on yourself, you look miserable.

M.Zadornov

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Originally posted by star-traveller no, no. All you do is trying to look like that stupid guy Zadornov but towards Russia. M.Zadornov You are a joke.

see russians are too quick to anger. Don't let anger blind you like so many russians are blind. And 23yrs in russia willl most definately make you blind like the rest of russians. Your a lost cause brain washed zombie.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid see russians are too quick to anger. Don't let anger blind you like so many russians are blind. And 23yrs in russia willl most definately make you blind like the rest of russians. Your a lost cause brain washed zombie.

I'm sorry man, but you are who is really blind, you can't even quote the right post.

I defer to Lilith's wisdom in this thread...

The age of the hegemon was dominated by this symbol: "$"
The age of the empire was dominated by this symbol: "£"

I $£ AM FTW!

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Originally posted by star-traveller I'm sorry man, but you are who is really blind, you can't even quote the right post.

Im sorry i didn't understand that fragment sentence. What were you trying to say? No really i didn't understand?? Could you say that again??

Russian people=brainwashed people

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Originally posted by jdat lol watch the Western world step in and create a huge diplomatic incident. Russia doesn't want outsiders mixed in with their business.

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Does America want outsiders to be mixed in with their business? Or British? Or Chinese? Or ... (you name it). Only WEAK countries want others to come in and do whatever they wish. That actually causes more problems because these people dont give a shit about the country that they are about to make big bucks off.

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Originally posted by metalgearsolid Im sorry i didn't understand that fragment sentence. What were you trying to say? No really i didn't understand?? Could you say that again?? Russian people=brainwashed people

You have a serious problem, lack of logic. Why? Well, face it - United States has serious issues, like breaking international laws, killing innocent civilians, illegal invasion of Iraq with no proof - but as an American, you are still proud of your country, still supportive, right? Well, same fucking thing here. I know its not peachy in Russia, but I love my country, I love my culture, history, language, and no matter how bad things are over there I will always try to focus on the positive. Just because Soviets fucked up my country doesnt mean I am not Russian anymore, I amm brainwashed, bla bla. ITS YOU who is brainwashed for obvious double standards for problems IN YOUR country. And you are being a dick and with no understand of being in other people's shoes. You dont understand what progress is. Russia has tremendous progress right now. We have democracy, great economy, proud people, rich history and all.

Only a positive sign of good things ahead. And it can only be done a bit at a time. GET IT???

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Originally posted by Subey I defer to Lilith's wisdom in this thread... The age of the hegemon was dominated by this symbol: "$" The age of the empire was dominated by this symbol: "£" I $£ AM FTW!

This would make an awesome discussion ... too bad its hardly noticable because this is a different topic. But yes, money runs the world, its obvious. Doesnt mean I should forget about everything else, like moral values.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium This would make an awesome discussion ... too bad its hardly noticable because this is a different topic. But yes, money runs the world, its obvious. Doesnt mean I should forget about everything else, like moral values.

The writing is everywhere.

A province is to Canada today, what a nation will be to the earth tomorrow.

And in that patently obvious step in human cultural evolution many many problems will be solved by the simple fact that once people are under the same umbrella they become part of a group that compartmentalizes conflict to "safe" forms, and offers a basis for extended mutual support.

Safe form conflict: "The Toronto Maple Leafs Suck"
Support: "The feds have put together a compensation package for drought stricken farmers in Saskatchewan"


Discussing democracy in Russia to me is equivalent to opening up a newspaper and seeing a newspaper ad that reads, "New Model T on sale Today" and then having a conversation about what brand of "horseshoe" will best suit my needs in the future.

Re: How to enforce democracy in Russia?

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium

In Soviet Russia, democracy enforces you.

But seriously, in a country the size of Russia, it's never going to be possible. There is so much corruption, arguably more than Afircan countries.

I mean, missiles 'missing' from silos in deep remote parts of Russia. The whole thing send chills down my spine.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium This would make an awesome discussion ... too bad its hardly noticable because this is a different topic. But yes, money runs the world, its obvious. Doesnt mean I should forget about everything else, like moral values.

Having money doesnt mean you have any immorality! It just means you vote with your wallet rather than rely on what the popularly elected prats in the government are getting up too. In case you hadn't noticed, a lot of people are ignorant, easily led and they vote for morons with a silver tongue.
If you dont like the way a company does things, you can do two things.
Buys shares- vote in someone who will do the job better and on an ethical basis
Dont buy their stuff- If you think the company is doing something to harm the environment, people, whales, trees or whatever, dont buy stuff off of them.

Ever since McDonalds to use an example, was publically dragged through the mud by the press, private individuals, courts and made to be accountable for their business practices and product they've certainly decided to lift their game in terms at least of product. They also are making something of a public face of looking less harmful in their business practice, being a skeptic about most things I'm not sure how much is true. But anyway.
Same reason car manufacturers are now looking into more fuel efficient cars and alternative fuel cars is because THEY KNOW, theyre next on the public backlash against fuel oil and the buyers want something thats more economical which is better for both their back pocket and the environment.

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Originally posted by Subey The writing is everywhere. A province is to Canada today, what a nation will be to the earth tomorrow. And in that patently obvious step in human cultural evolution many many problems will be solved by the simple fact that once people are under the same umbrella they become part of a group that compartmentalizes conflict to "safe" forms, and offers a basis for extended mutual support. Safe form conflict: "The Toronto Maple Leafs Suck" Support: "The feds have put together a compensation package for drought stricken farmers in Saskatchewan" Discussing democracy in Russia to me is equivalent to opening up a newspaper and seeing a newspaper ad that reads, "New Model T on sale Today" and then having a conversation about what brand of "horseshoe" will best suit my needs in the future.

While you guys are holding your precious dollars and contemplating on how money talks, you forget one thing: its WORTHLESS. Its hardly even backed by real gold anymore. Next economy crash will clear up your thinking and you'll realize that money is not everything, its hardly anything. Food and clean fresh water are everything. I scoff when people admire money so much. Its lame. Money's dirty, food and love are more important.

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Originally posted by _Ocean_Drive_ I mean, missiles 'missing' from silos in deep remote parts of Russia. The whole thing send chills down my spine.

You crack me up. A 20 ton 15-metre missile disappearing like a fart in thw wind you have great imagination!

The people that complain about money are usually people who don't have any, hence they cant effect any change on their lives.
See how far you get obtaining clean water, food and how long your love with a partner lasts when youre in the economic dire straits together, the lights go off and the repo man turns up to take all your stuff.

I mean seriously, do you think youre the first great unwashed hippy to tell me 'oh youre all doomed when the economy goes into recession!'? Actually I've lost track of how many times I've been told that and seem to have actually, continously made a profit along the way despite the e-market crashes, the energy crashes, commodities crashes and the housing market recessions before.
But apparently I'm 'lame'

Grow up some, then come back and talk to me when youre in the real world and not some idealistic dreamland.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium [COLOR=FF7F50] While you guys are holding your precious dollars and contemplating on how money talks, you forget one thing: its WORTHLESS. Its hardly even backed by real gold anymore. Next economy crash will clear up your thinking and you'll realize that money is not everything, its hardly anything. Food and clean fresh water are everything. I scoff when people admire money so much. Its lame. Money's dirty, food and love are more important.

I agree... Whenever I think of it I can't help but think of Marina Zasukhina's eXtremelY FOOLISH character in Otets i syn

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Originally posted by Lilith The people that complain about money are usually people who don't have any, hence they cant effect any change on their lives. See how far you get obtaining clean water, food and how long your love with a partner lasts when youre in the economic dire straits together, the lights go off and the repo man turns up to take all your stuff. I mean seriously, do you think youre the first great unwashed hippy to tell me 'oh youre all doomed when the economy goes into recession!'? Actually I've lost track of how many times I've been told that and seem to have actually, continously made a profit along the way despite the e-market crashes, the energy crashes, commodities crashes and the housing market recessions before. But apparently I'm 'lame' Grow up some, then come back and talk to me when youre in the real world and not some idealistic dreamland.

I didnt say you're lame, I said ITS [money] lame. Basically, to cut down the typing, I'll make my point clear - I prefer to have saved up bricks of gold than devaluating currency, or face economy crash.

I have money. Not a lot, since I am a student, but enough to buy all the books, CDs, organic foods and have left over. Doesnt mean I have to have lots of money to like money? Of course I need money, but money fucks people up (gambling, friends for money, change of lifestyles, power, greed, etc.). I hate money.

Lets get back to the topic, shall we? Or lets start a thread about money.

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Originally posted by Lilith No, I'm going to tell you right now that democracy is a complete crock, its an ideal made up by philosphers and supported by politicians who hand it down to the peons so they think theyre being supported and get a say in the matters of their lives. When you fall out of whatever higher education system youre probably running around like some kind of cloistered and probably fairly intelligent person you are. You'll get a job and work your arse off to make ends meet. You'll get a loan to buy a house so you'll have somewhere to live. You'll probably end up with kids and a partner of some sort and you can come back here and tell me 'how the world works' and where 'democracy' plays a huge part in it all. Heres a hint It doesnt. The world spins on one thing only, the dollar And in that world of idealistic, equality, a fair say, fair go, you'll realise that there is no day to day democracy. You'll work for a tyrant, you'll rarely get a say on how the business runs and you'll be expected to do it without question... at the end of the day capitalism is your value and worth to the world. How much you make How much you spend Will determine exactly how much say in how the world works. Those with the money, make the world spin, you dont have money, you dont get a say.

I agree, but I still take offense to your go at students being one myself.

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Originally posted by Zild I agree, but I still take offense to your go at students being one myself.

Yes, I found it a bit offensive too. Lilith is all about the money, hehe ;-)

I'll have enough money, one way or another. I have lived on 850 dollars a month the first six months when I had to move out of my parents house and I did fine (inlc. rent: $350, bills/transit: $120).

I know how to handle money. I dont need a lesson, I've seen how people take care of their money and what they are willing to do for money, all the gambling addicts, cards for money addicts, etc. etc.

I stay away from people who are too much of money. They love their money so much, they like it more than you. They are willing to do crazy things for more of it. Thats some politicians and powerful corporate oligarchs for ya!

Money, or theft of it, has murdered so many people. So many children die around the world, so many people lose their farms, homes, lives because others want to make a profit. Fuck money. There's enough money (plus lots of leftover) to provide EVERYONE with enough water and food to survive. The 1% richest people have more than 80% of the poorest. All they do is keep it to themselves. YAY, GO MONEY!!!!

America's yearly military budget alone is enough to feed every single hungry person for the whole year.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium While you guys are holding your precious dollars and contemplating on how money talks, you forget one thing: its WORTHLESS.

not where i come from, and i'm pretty sure not where you're from either.

now do you want to have a serious debate on value or a semantic discussion on the definition of currency?

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Originally posted by Q5echo not where i come from, and i'm pretty sure not where you're from either. now do you want to have a serious debate on value or a semantic discussion on the definition of currency?

I meant to say as to its WORTHLESS because of what it does to people. But it does have "value" as in you can buy stuff with it. Just dont hold it too close to your heart ;-) Dont love your money, or you'll become like Dick Cheney ;-)

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Originally posted by Magnetonium You crack me up. A 20 ton 15-metre missile disappearing like a fart in thw wind you have great imagination!

Yeah, unpaid, grumpy guards in the post-Soviet collapse, going to be far more suceptible to bank-rolled terrorists etc than interests of national security. I mean seriously, can you tell me with a straight face that Russia's nuclear stockpile is all accounted for?

Sum of all Fears (for all its cheesey-ness) raised some good points.

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Originally posted by Magnetonium Of course I need money, but money fucks people up (gambling, friends for money, change of lifestyles, power, greed, etc.). I hate money.

Last I looked, not eating, no clean water and utilities messed people up a lot worse because they didnt have any money to pay for them. Which is why in any kind of government system, be it despots, democracy or warlords, if people do not have the basic income over a wide spread of the population then theyre going to have 'Problems', which is exactly where Russia is at the moment.
What a lot of you lack is the clarity and patience expecting everything to be overnight, made good and wholesome by huge influences from western nations, which just reeks of turning the place into a charity state.
Charity only goes so far, eventually you have to actually stand up and fight, work and claw away something for yourself through your own efforts. (Or you can do what you've done and simply wash your hands of it, all the problems, leave and start up somewhere else.)
Otherwise you end up with a population of charity basketcases living day to day wanting more handout and with no appreciation for what they've got because they havent earned it.

Iraq is the simplest case in point here if you want to see how 'democracy and charity' being forced into a state by outside sources works. They havent had to fight for democracy, it simply landed on their doorstep, busted the place up, threw out the despots and gave them handouts.
Now, they dont really have any sense of value of freedom of choice and simply go back to excercising what seems to be some god-given freedom to shoot each other.

Lets make it more clearer: we need money. we work for money. Money is good.

When you love money, money becomes bad. The love of money is the sources of a lot of humanity's problems. These money-loving people become a threat to us. They reach high levels of government and run the country with that mentality. Love of money damages the mentality. These people become your money's friend. They will do almost anything for it. More profits. More control. More power.

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