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-- How did you learn what you know?
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quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Yes, and it shows - while they may have the technical skill but they have no vision or direction whatsoever, they're just doing whatever everyone else is at the moment.

point taken...and i of course agree...


but i think you know what i meant. it doesn't take 15-20 years of experience to make great music. what you're refering to is something you either inherently have or don't...what i'm talking about is the ability to actually turn out a professional product provided you have the good ideas to begin with.

quote:

Originally posted by Floorfiller point taken...and i of course agree... but i think you know what i meant. it doesn't take 15-20 years of experience to make great music. what you're refering to is something you either inherently have or don't...what i'm talking about is the ability to actually turn out a professional product provided you have the good ideas to begin with.

Exactly - a product.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Yes, and it shows - while they may have the technical skill but they have no vision or direction whatsoever, they're just doing whatever everyone else is at the moment.

For a lot of them, yes, but for people who already have experience or talent in related areas (music, computers, audio), not necessarily.

I had several years of formal musical training, and just learned most of the production-related concepts by a combination of trial-and-error and reading. Since I like to combine several different styles in my own productions, it's also a requirement to listen to a lot of music from different genres (not just EDM). Not that this helps at all in coming up with original material, it's just important if you want to target a track into a specific genre.

I'm not going to argue the following point in any subsequent replies, but I will say this: even for people who are very talented, the musical aspect is a lot harder to just pick up as you go along than the technological one. It can be done, but it takes a lot longer than with formal training, and is not nearly as easy to pick up as the "sound engineering" concepts are for people with technological competence. The reason for this is mainly that composition is an exercise in the totally abstract, it's in the pure thought domain, whereas the technology is something concrete and has already been simplified for us by the engineers and programmers who made it.

Back in the day, I use to play a lot of saxophone. I learned how to read music to some degree, and general musicianship. Those days passed when I moved away from Colorady.

I taught myself rudimentary piano skills with a keyboard that my parents bought me for Christmas. They're crappy skills, but I learned how to mess around with chords, somewhat keep time, and melody experimentation.

Fruityloops taught me the vast majority of what I know (some of you are like: "figures"...) Trial and error, reading the F1 files, looking at example .flps. It's alot of fun.

Rick Snowman's "Dance Music Manual" gave me a nice set of technical vocabulary and general words of wisdom. That book is my Bible of Confucious Sayings.

Production/Musicianship Magazines (electronic musician monthly among others).

I still kick my own a** for no longer playing saxophone, but I really couldn't find any piano teachers while I was in highschool, so I really can't blame myself for that. To me, trained musicianship has been a blessing to what I do even though it doesn't directly apply.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut For a lot of them, yes, but for people who already have experience or talent in related areas (music, computers, audio), not necessarily. I had several years of formal musical training, and just learned most of the production-related concepts by a combination of trial-and-error and reading. Since I like to combine several different styles in my own productions, it's also a requirement to listen to a lot of music from different genres (not just EDM). Not that this helps at all in coming up with original material, it's just important if you want to target a track into a specific genre. I'm not going to argue the following point in any subsequent replies, but I will say this: even for people who are very talented, the musical aspect is a lot harder to just pick up as you go along than the technological one. It can be done, but it takes a lot longer than with formal training, and is not nearly as easy to pick up as the "sound engineering" concepts are for people with technological competence. The reason for this is mainly that composition is an exercise in the totally abstract, it's in the pure thought domain, whereas the technology is something concrete and has already been simplified for us by the engineers and programmers who made it.

I was actually talking more sound-wise than idea wise but yeah, I pretty much agree with all of that.

Back in the days it was Music X2 on Amiga 500 with a Emu ES-32 or something and a Casio CZ-1 combined with listening to old skool hardcore (obviously not called old skool then lol) then happy hardcore as me and mate tried to copy what we heard on the records we brought.

As I progressed it was using futuremusic and soundonsound stuff as there was no internet back then!!!!

And since the internet / web it's been using forums like this combined with some articles from good music production magazines.

I don't know what I'd do with no internet now it would be weird.

FJ

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery while they may have the technical skill but they have no vision or direction whatsoever, they're just doing whatever everyone else is at the moment.

you just described me.

reading the ableton manual between customers while working at blockbuster

ive recently gone down the rabbit hole of reading new and even very old books on mixdown and mastering.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Trial and error.

Probably the millionth person to quote this but in the first 2 years this is pretty much what I did. I narrowed down the amount of errors by reading internet resources but beyond a certain point trial and error just became a humongous waste of time so for the last year or so I've been going at it from the sound design level and thinking through every process. Otherwise things get flukey and I hate that.

Big problem with that is that I've taken out a year to do the learning - I haven't actually mixed anything in all that time. Its been pretty much all sound design but I feel I understand the mechanics of music production in a way that I couldn't before.

Soon I'll have to take a year out to work on my mixdowns because I'm totally gimp at it right now.

i skull fucked mozart, bethovan, van gough, wagner, and bach.... just like an std i caught the things needed?

quote:

Originally posted by ZxZDeViLZxZ i skull fucked mozart, bethovan, van gough, wagner, and bach.... just like an std i caught the things needed?

you mean Mozart, Beethoven, Van Gogh (the artist?), Wagner, and Bach?

werd van gough for pure artistic talent

When i started out Zack (Darksword) helped me out alot and got me started. Then just messing around and a few books, The Dance Music Manual, TA, The Idoiot's Guide to Music composition, and Music Theory. Still have a looooong way to go. It's fun and takes up all my time lol.

Lots of Trial and error. I've thought I should give up allot of times but theyre the times when you usually have learnt something, then you move on to other areas and realise you've built a whole load of skills, in whatever software your using.

Its important to keep trying to move on I find otherwise you wont hear anything new and just think your crap lol.

I used reason for about 8 months then went to Cubase last year in the summer and now I'm just starting to like what I hear.

See this post of a recent thing I'm working on...

http://www.tranceaddict.com/forum/s...3895&forumid=48

I grew up in a musical family, had some hands-on production experience at a local studio, and read tonnes of Future Music magazines

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Trial and error.

Yep, same here.

I try to do tutorials but I get bored too easily and I find I forget stuff.

If i figure out something myself, then I don't forget.

Sadly, trial and error isn't working for me with EQing and Mastering so I'll be reading up on that

quote:

Originally posted by daeus Its important to keep trying to move on I find otherwise you wont hear anything new and just think your crap lol.

Yeah I just realized this literally 5 min ago. I'm making the same ol crap with little variation and im starting to get bored of my abilities. I just cant figure out how to move on...

friends, trial and error, this forum board and a couple others, reading....

quote:

Originally posted by gwrmarines Yeah I just realized this literally 5 min ago. I'm making the same ol crap with little variation and im starting to get bored of my abilities. I just cant figure out how to move on...

When this happens I drop whatever I've been trying before, try something totally new i.e. do a few tutorials on specific things within the software you use such as drum programming/effects/learn a new VSTi.

Once you have "completed" that challenge go back to what you were doing and apply what you have learnt or move on again and learn another thing.

Eventually you'll go back to what you were getting stuck on but be able to apply the new things you have learnt which can make it interesting again.

I always try to remember that as long as your on (using) the software your learning something so spending time on it you cant really go wrong.

Trial and Error Blah Blah Blah, and also not being worried about getting signed, no rushing. I put every track i produced on internetdj.com and learnt from the critisism i got. Then I realised that most people on IDJ dont know what the fuck they are talking about when it comes to producing.... so I came to UKTranceAlliance.com then here. :P

I worked at a production company all through college and my boss was a great mentor for me. I guess trial and error is a big part of it. but having someone sit down with you and explain why something doesn't sound right, and tweak it with you really helps. by the time i was done i was mixing 5.1 sessions for our biggest client.

oh, and i think having fun and enjoying what you do is the biggest part of it.

quote:

Originally posted by unripelemon I put every track i produced on internetdj.com and learnt from the critisism i got. Then I realised that most people on IDJ dont know what the fuck they are talking about when it comes to producing....

You've got to remember that 95% of anyone who lurks these types of sites aren't big or successful music producers... so what the hell do they know. you won't find me posting test mixes on here anytime soon.

quote:

Originally posted by CReddick You've got to remember that 95% of anyone who lurks these types of sites aren't big or successful music producers... so what the hell do they know. you won't find me posting test mixes on here anytime soon.

Lol I dont anymore, but i used to.... and you're not a big or succesful music producer. What does it matter, most big DJs are shit producers anyway. Music is meant to be heard by the public, so why not have the public give thier oppinion.

Then again I only get feedback from bigger DJs now so im gonna stop being a hypocrit.

quote:

Originally posted by CReddick You've got to remember that 95% of anyone who lurks these types of sites aren't big or successful music producers... so what the hell do they know. you won't find me posting test mixes on here anytime soon.

And just like Unripelemon says, there are big name producers that don't know shit either. Mainly because its their team of engineers and/or producers that are pulling the strings. It doesn't matter who you are - its what you know thats important. Thats why forums like this are so awesome - it makes it easier for people who know things that you don't to pool together and share knowledge. Hell mysticalninja (of all people) helped me crack that horrendous nagging in the back of my head 'how the fuck was the bassdrum for Suburban Train made?' I synthesize bassdrums in part because of it. He ain't Sasha but his knowledge sure is welcome.

I don't care if you are a noname mr anonymous - if you post some advice in this thread on some scientific aspect of sound design and you are 100% right, as a consequence making my mixes better, you are the fucking don and I thank you for sharing your knowledge. I'll return the favour someday.

Conversely, you could be Tijs and I guess it would be flattering having him post in your thread but to be honest, I don't value his opinion on sound design all that much - at least not after he did that interview where he said something along the lines of 'I make the bassline sound so fat by increasing the release knob.'

Re: How did you learn what you know?

quote:

Originally posted by DJMiakoda Simple question about your music producing abilities... how did you learn everything you presently know and how long did it take you to get to where you're presently at? Be honest.

I've only been running E:mortal for two years now, but I'd hardly say thats the time it took me.

A more accurate guess is basically all my life, it all stacks up.
Was a huge fan of music when I was a kid, my family loved music as well, my uncle had tons of instruments that I used to play around with. I loved music class, my teacher realized this and taught me even more about music, I have a lot to thank him for.
When I got my amiga I started pounding away tunes at that, I probably made over 200 tracks on it. When I got my macintosh I had more channels to use, so I could try out more complicated compositions. When I got my pc I started with Reason, learning the basics on how a studio works, then I moved onto Cubase. I bought my studio, learned the gear, learned the software...
But the studio gear and software are just tools really, what makes the music is all the experiences I've had in my life up until now and I feel I have tons more to learn.

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