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ha

ive just noticed that you press play on the incoming track after the last big breakdown

everything matches up from there....

u guys are trying to hide stuff from us noob DJs?!?!

just tell you elitists!!

quote:

Originally posted by Andryuha I just want to make sure, I'm understanding this correctly. Once you hear the end of a phrase, you need to count off 4, 16 or 32 beats, right? Is that the point where you drop the cued track?

Listen to a track. Don't mix it, just listen.

When you hear a big crash, start counting the beats. At 16 or 32 you'll hear the music change, either another big crash or something added/lost or the music will start a new loop. That is one phrase.


@theognis, don't be a twit. Theres no secrets, no hiding, no elitism. You gotta work out how to mix by yourself like everyone else did.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter Listen to a track. Don't mix it, just listen. When you hear a big crash, start counting the beats. At 16 or 32 you'll hear the music change, either another big crash or something added/lost or the music will start a new loop. That is one phrase.

That's what I thought

quote:

Originally posted by theognis1002 ha ive just noticed that you press play on the incoming track after the last big breakdown everything matches up from there.... u guys are trying to hide stuff from us noob DJs?!?! just tell you elitists!!

Are you really that dumb or are you trying (and failing) to be funny?

quote:

Originally posted by theognis1002 ha ive just noticed that you press play on the incoming track after the last big breakdown everything matches up from there.... u guys are trying to hide stuff from us noob DJs?!?! just tell you elitists!!

there ya go - thats phrasing for you

the more music you listen to, the better your brain becomes at knowing when to drop the next track in

if the tunes are beatmatched, phrased correctly and in compatible keys the mix should always sound reasonable unless you really cock up the faders/EQs

we're not hiding anything here, there's no secrets

you have to invest time to teach your brain how to listen and react to the music

the more time you spend behind the decks practicing, the more you're teaching your brain how this actually works

some pick it up quicker, especially those with a musical background

it just takes time

when i first got my tables i was playing about 5-9 hours a day for about 6 months then played my first gig, was a little shakey (very nervous) but it was good

point being, you have to practice... a lot

quote:

Originally posted by Smiley there ya go - thats phrasing for you the more music you listen to, the better your brain becomes at knowing when to drop the next track in if the tunes are beatmatched, phrased correctly and in compatible keys the mix should always sound reasonable unless you really cock up the faders/EQs

Not to jack this thread, but I have a question about keys. I'm understanding a key, as for example, the differences in the "thickness" of a beat. Is that a correct assumption? Is that what determines whether two tracks go together?

The key of a track is a note, for example A maj, Emin etc

quote:

Originally posted by AndskiSpeed The key of a track is a note, for example A maj, Emin etc

hmm, im not too familiar with english musical terminology. You're talking about major and minor, right? So when phrasing, you need to make sure that both tracks' phrases are written in the same key (major or minor). I'm I understanding this correctly?

*?

quote:

Originally posted by Andryuha Not to jack this thread, but I have a question about keys. I'm understanding a key, as for example, the differences in the "thickness" of a beat. Is that a correct assumption? Is that what determines whether two tracks go together?

my knowledge is very limited but i believe its the root note of the tune, so all the melodies etc are in the scale of that note (someone correct me there?)

i only go by camelot but if you tries to mix a tune in 12B to 5A for example it would probably sound pretty bad and disharmonious

you need to make sure the 2 tunes are in compatible keys (not necessarily the same)

a tune wont change key after a phrase (hopefully)

quote:

Originally posted by idoru That would explain why your sets are always so poorly phrased.

Not my fault Tobi Neumann didnt upload the right thing

quote:

Originally posted by Trance Nutter what the fuck? Thats the most long-winded way I could ever think of doing it. Up until now I've never even contemplated counting grooves or working out how far the needle moves per number of bars or anything like that. The only time I look at the grooves is to see how much of the track has played if I'm not paying attention. Its simple, pretty much what this guy said: "The phrasing refers to musical phrases. If you pay attention, you'll hear that elements are usually layered or repeat every 8, 16, or 32 bars (assuming 4/4 time signature). You don't want to drop a track in the middle of a phrase since you would end up having two phrases not aligned and it would sound odd, hence the technique called 'phrasing'. It's actually fairly simple to do, and to be honest, doesn't require 'knowing your tracks'- it's definitely possible to predict the structure of a track."

I started producing tracks and took music theory long before I started DJ'ing, so I understand the phrasing concept quite well.

When you look at the record and can "see" that the 16 bar breakdown is a half an inch wide, it's reasonable to assume if there's a solid 1.5 inches before the outro or another breakdown, then that section is probably 48 bars long. I don't see what's so difficult about using this method as a reference?

quote:

Originally posted by DJMaytag I started producing tracks and took music theory long before I started DJ'ing, so I understand the phrasing concept quite well. When you look at the record and can "see" that the 16 bar breakdown is a half an inch wide, it's reasonable to assume if there's a solid 1.5 inches before the outro or another breakdown, then that section is probably 48 bars long. I don't see what's so difficult about using this method as a reference?

The fact that a DJ who stares at his vinyl looks like a total wanker?

There's a FAR simpler method of phrasing that is guaranteed to work EVERY TIME once you've practiced it a bit.


BEAT COUNTING


And after about a month straight of counting beats to EVERYTHING you hear, including the number of times a hockey player punches someone in the face, you wont have to count anymore and you'll sort of just know at what point you are in the 32 bar interval (32 bars because in a house tune the general rule is that the track changes SIGNIFICANTLY after 32 bars)

PS I have a vinyl in front of me, with some measuring tape, and I happen to know that the track on this vinyl has a breakdown of 32 bars and despite all the measurements I'm making I cannot see how this is in anyway musical.

Music is measured in bars, not inches or even centimeters for that matter!


Perhaps it's a revolution I've yet to hear of, that of a DJ bringing his CD case, headphones, vinyls AND MEASURING TAPE to his or her gig.

I once made a set that was six feet long.

lmao

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery I once made a set that was six feet long.

LOL

quote:

Originally posted by Alex The fact that a DJ who stares at his vinyl looks like a total wanker? There's a FAR simpler method of phrasing that is guaranteed to work EVERY TIME once you've practiced it a bit. BEAT COUNTING And after about a month straight of counting beats to EVERYTHING you hear, including the number of times a hockey player punches someone in the face, you wont have to count anymore and you'll sort of just know at what point you are in the 32 bar interval (32 bars because in a house tune the general rule is that the track changes SIGNIFICANTLY after 32 bars)

OMG I NEVER THOUGHT OF BEAT COUNTING!

Looking at the vinyl is simply a REFERENCE I use to go along with beat counting, to know exactly where I should throw in the next track. I don't see what's so difficult about using that info as an additional tool to counting beats and know your tracks inside and out. Hell, no one jumped on the guy who suggested using the waveform display that's available in Rane's Serato Scratch... it's not really any different.

Check out my latest mix, which was made almost entirely from a stack of new vinyl that arrived the previous evening. Mixed live, first take, with all programming done on the fly (ie after the first track I had no idea what songs from the stack of 30 plus some of the semi-recent ones in my crate I was going to use in the mix). Overall I think the phrasing is pretty good, short of the mix between tracks 3 and 4 (track 4 has a 16x8x4 intro, and that's awfully tough to make sound perfect with that odd 4 bar drum roll).

DJMaytag - Venus De Milo Selections Volume III

Does anyone have a program that will tell me when the phrases start and end? Don't they have a program called "Mixed in Phrases"?

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Does anyone have a program that will tell me when the phrases start and end? Don't they have a program called "Mixed in Phrases"?

Ableton shows you warp markers, so a phrase would show up as Warp Marker 9, 17, 25, 33 etc


Whereas for each of those numbers there are of course


8 bars, 16 bars, 24 bars, 32 bars.

All I have to say is that counting beats is the way to go. Its fast and easy and you will know how the song will go after 32 beats go by. (crash to crash)After awhile toy wont even have to count you will just know. Timing is everything!!o give everyone an example check out this set I recored back in November. I guarantee it is the most well timed set you will ever hear. All from counting beats. You dont have to download it. Just cut and paste the link and it it will load up and then hit play.

32 songs on 70 minutes of trance on 4 dennon 3500"s

http://www.musicv2.com/launch/david_jeffreys


You Can get the tracklist at

myspace.com/djdavidjeffreys

quote:

Originally posted by David Jeffreys All I have to say is that counting beats is the way to go. Its fast and easy and you will know how the song will go after 32 beats go by. (crash to crash)After awhile toy wont even have to count you will just know. Timing is everything!!

try throwing in Full Blown's "Hot Cheerleader Sex" without really paying attention, watch how the crash to crash method works. it's got all sorts of stutter steps, where in the first measure of the phrase there's no kick, and the crash happens on the downbeat instead of the snare. Matt Rowan & Jaytech do the same thing a few times in "Silver Cities" (or whatever the name of the B-side track is on that vinyl).

Lots of old school tracks have wierd phrasing too, with the occasional 4 bar loop thrown in the middle of 8 and 16 bar phrases. Watch out of the 1 bar "dropout" phrases that occur in tracks where everything cuts out then comes back to 8 bar phrases.

quote:

Watch out of the 1 bar "dropout" phrases that occur in tracks where everything cuts out then comes back to 8 bar phrases

yep "dropouts"suck!! but that is where knowing your music comes in.

Often though, those dropout parts can be incorporated into your phrase, I often use them to hide a surge in volume that's about to occur, or depending on the length of the dropout/reverse/whateveryouwannacallit, simply ignore it and remember that it is part of the overall "phrasing" of the tune.

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