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-- Plan To Turn Fez Batik Lounge Into Shelter Met With Opposition
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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Keep in mind as well that a lot of homeless people are immigrants who can't get jobs b/c they don't have the qualifications, can't land an interview b/c they don't have professional attire, have trouble speaking english, don't have an education.

Bull.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Bull.

Whatever you say. There are plenty of homeless people out there that don't choose that lifestyle.

Where's Jayx1 these days?

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Originally posted by mikester69 Where's Jayx1 these days?

Yaaaa! Where the fuck is he?

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Originally posted by DigiNut Building homeless shelters in general is a bad idea. Building them at taxpayer expense is worse. Building them at taxpayer expense in the middle of a big city's dense entertainment district is just fucking retarded. Then again, Miller is fucking retarded so this isn't a surprise to me.

Hahahahah. YES DIGI!

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Whatever you say. There are plenty of homeless people out there that don't choose that lifestyle.

When was the last time you ran into someone who was doing shitty and actually claimed that they were responsible? Excuses are easy - change is hard.

Morbidly fat people didn't just eat, it's genetic and it's all the fault of the fast food chains. Drug addicts didn't just get addicted to drugs, they had terrible childhoods and their relatives didn't support them and their peers were mean and there was no other escape. Everybody will always find a way to blame someone or something else. The people who end up on the street, end up there precisely because they've taken this to the extreme, embracing helplessness and victimization and doing nothing about their situation.

OK - some of them are mentally ill. That's different. But give me a break - so you're a disheveled immigrant with no money and no job? Go work as a dishwasher or a fry cook, take one of the numerous free ESL classes offered in the city, and sleep at one of the el cheapo hostels on the outskirts. It's shit, but it's better than living on the street and with a little bit of discipline one can dig his way out of that hole.

Do you have any idea how immigrants lived as recently as 50 or 60 years ago? Irish, Jewish, and probably a few other groups that I'm forgetting, they lived in ghettoes, crowded 10 people into an apartment as big as your bedroom, pooled their money together so they could eat. They lived in squalor but instead of begging, they worked like dogs. They learned how to survive on nothing just so they could make a better life for their kids. And they did.

But no, in this day in this country nobody ever makes bad choices, they just have bad luck. Pfft.

heaven help the gino who gets mugged

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut

In response to your obese and drug addict people - I never said anything about that...I completely agree with you, those people do it to themselves.

I stand by what I say when it comes to the homeless. I will not deny the fact that there are MANY - in fact I would probably say the majority - of homeless people out there are somewhat responsible for where they are.

But there are some immigrants out there that just can't make it work. May it be because they are single parents, they don't have clean clothes to wear to work, they don't speak english and can't go to ESL classes b/c they have to take care of their babies, they have no transportation - nor money for transportation, they don't have any education or qualification, they are unaware of the opportunities that are available to them and no one is there to lead them in the right direction, the government doesn't provide them with enough money...

If they kept looking and trying, eventually I'm sure a lot of them will get jobs (I don't care how shitty the job is)...but a lot of them are struggling b/c they need help and either don't get it or don't know HOW to get it.

quote:

Originally posted by dEsidEL heaven help the gino who gets mugged

i LOL'd

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* In response to your obese and drug addict people - I never said anything about that...I completely agree with you, those people do it to themselves. I stand by what I say when it comes to the homeless. I will not deny the fact that there are MANY - in fact I would probably say the majority - of homeless people out there are somewhat responsible for where they are. But there are some immigrants out there that just can't make it work. May it be because they are single parents, they don't have clean clothes to wear to work, they don't speak english and can't go to ESL classes b/c they have to take care of their babies, they have no transportation - nor money for transportation, they don't have any education or qualification, they are unaware of the opportunities that are available to them and no one is there to lead them in the right direction, the government doesn't provide them with enough money... If they kept looking and trying, eventually I'm sure a lot of them will get jobs (I don't care how shitty the job is)...but a lot of them are struggling b/c they need help and either don't get it or don't know HOW to get it.

Ok. So these immigrants know how to go to the govt for a welfare cheque, but they aren't aware of other social services that the govt offers?

I'm not trying to make this personal or consist this as an attack on you, Lisa, but there is a flaw in your comment.

anyone with the physical AND psychological capabilities should be busting their asses to find a job. unfortunately there are a lot of people who don't have the same mental makeup that some of us are blest with and as lisa explained earlier, its hard to set up programs that differentiate between those who genuinely need these services and those who don't.

most of us sitting here reading this have had an easy time in life. you all have access to a computer, you're wearing clothes, you ate dinner, and probably breakfast and lunch too. some of you are living at home, and those who aren't probably lived at home till you were at least 18. growing up you probably had your parent(s) around..and most likely they were sober and not fucking men for crack money. most of you also went to school. some of you had help from your parents and others received scholarships from good grades. some of you have always done well in school or business. you all probably have good health..no schizophrenia or other mental diseases. those of you who do, it was probably detected early and you have been properly diagnosed and watched over. same with those with learning disabilities, like dyslexia.

i'm not saying people should be given a free ride, but some people seem to forget that we don't all start out at the same point. and its not only the physical or physiological aspects. some of you (specifically the biggest conservatives in this thread..cough cough digi cough cough)...are born pretty fucking smart. sure you guys had to work had in school, but that doesn't discount the fact that you have been given a gift that puts you in an advantageous position in society.

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* In response to your obese and drug addict people - I never said anything about that...I completely agree with you, those people do it to themselves. I stand by what I say when it comes to the homeless. I will not deny the fact that there are MANY - in fact I would probably say the majority - of homeless people out there are somewhat responsible for where they are. But there are some immigrants out there that just can't make it work. May it be because they are single parents, they don't have clean clothes to wear to work, they don't speak english and can't go to ESL classes b/c they have to take care of their babies, they have no transportation - nor money for transportation, they don't have any education or qualification, they are unaware of the opportunities that are available to them and no one is there to lead them in the right direction, the government doesn't provide them with enough money... If they kept looking and trying, eventually I'm sure a lot of them will get jobs (I don't care how shitty the job is)...but a lot of them are struggling b/c they need help and either don't get it or don't know HOW to get it.

im wondering if they immigrated here, how the hell they did it. unless you're a refugee, u need to have a certain amount of points to even be eligble to immigrate to canada and those points come from income and the level of education you have.

quote:

Originally posted by EvilTree Ok. So these immigrants know how to go to the govt for a welfare cheque, but they aren't aware of other social services that the govt offers? I'm not trying to make this personal or consist this as an attack on you, Lisa, but there is a flaw in your comment.

I wasn't speaking specifically of the people I have dealt with who are on welfare. (Not all of which actually are on on welfare)

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky im wondering if they immigrated here, how the hell they did it. unless you're a refugee, u need to have a certain amount of points to even be eligble to immigrate to canada and those points come from income and the level of education you have.

I've heard of these points. I'm not aware of the qualifications however.

while building a shelter is smart... this location is not.

quote:

Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I wasn't speaking specifically of the people I have dealt with who are on welfare. (Not all of which actually are on on welfare) I've heard of these points. I'm not aware of the qualifications however.

yes - whenever one chooses to immigrate to Canada, they go through initial evaluation, either as a skilled worker or whatever other types are (I'm not too sure)... right now I'm literally a few points away from qualifying to immigrate as a skilled worker, hopefully this will change as soon as I get a full time job upon my graduation

that is probably the worst urban planning plan i have ever heard of.

LOL @ this turning into a "should we help the homeless" debate!

ok

quote:

Originally posted by heavenisblue I REALLY hope that this doesn't happen. I work at the club directly across the street from fez batik, and I really don't think its a good idea. from an employee point of view, it's actually quite stupid. the earliest that the industry employees get off work is 2:30am, most people later. and a lot of us end up walking home. why would they put a homeless shelter in the one place where people are leaving work at probably the most dangerous time to be on the streets by yourself? just doesn't seem logical. and it will become a huge pain in the ass and problem for bouncers who have to man the line outside. I live about a block away from comfort zone, where there isn't a homeless shelter but there are quite a few homeless people, and I get asked for money and sometimes they get pretty angry about 10 times a day. on a saturday night, 2 of the hottest places right now are cantina charlies (the club I work at) and lot 332, so they have the longest lines and constantly have drunk people going in and out. can you imagine the amount of homeless people asking for money and pestering people in line? I know that homelesness is a problem and we do need to address it, but the reality is a lot of the people on the street do act in ways that will be more destructive in the entertainment industry then somewhere else. and now the more I think about it the more I'm worried! I'm gonna ask my manager tomorrow if there is a petition we can sign or something, lol.

I wouldn't be worried about the homeless and the bar staff.

The real issue is the homeless and the drunken idiots that leave the bars at 2:30. The worry is not a homeless person asking for money, the worry is what that drunken idiot is going to do to a person that asks him for money.

Why aren't you concerned about those drunken idiots when you walk home!? That's what I would be signing a petition for.

I really need to get into politics.

Toronto is a city that is slowly starving to death. So much so that they are considering levys on alcohol, tobacco, parking, highway use, etc.

Why then are they giving up all the revenue in taxes, property fees, licences, etc by turning one of the best patios in the entertainment district into a homeless centre? Why would one put a homeless centre in the middle of clubland anyways? Is this thier brilliant idea at boosting tourism? Hey, let's go to Toronto for the weekend and stand in line for a club right next door to a community outreach centre!

Here's a thought, why not convert an unused potion of city hall or one of our fine theatres into a street centre? Or, let's skip all the pretext and just set them up right at the airport so we get as much exposure to our potential tourism dollars as possible.

These are the people we allow to vote themselves raises?

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS Hey, let's go to Toronto for the weekend and stand in line for a club right next door to a community outreach centre!

FYI - Social workers decide where to build these facilities based on the need of the community. As someone who lived at Richmond & Simcoe for 2 years - the district has a significant homeless problem (with drugs and alcohol abuse being significant in the homeless community).

If the people who live in and around the clubbing district require a community outreach center - where do you (seriously) propose the build one?

Modern social work has shown that if a few specific problem communities are improved (through social programs and support), via the spill over effect - greater city problems (homelessness, recidivism, drug abuse, crime) tend to improve as well.

Social workers focus efforts on the "hot spots" because it has been shown to produce the greatest positive change overall for a city.

Thus we don't post community outreach centers in Rosedale and Forrest Hill. Although there maybe homeless there (who are seriously under-served compared to homeless in other areas in the city) - solving the Rosedale and Forrest Hill community problem will do little to impact the greater city's problem as a whole.

With limited budget, only the most high impact solutions are tabled and accepted.

I am not quite sure who will be more at risk - the passer byers or the homeless themselves...

Not the smartest idea...

I guess the rationale is to put the drunks with the drunks...

digi and RJ fucking rock this thread...

quote:

Originally posted by allym I am not quite sure who will be more at risk - the passer byers or the homeless themselves...

the homeless are definitely more at risk.

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess the homeless are definitely more at risk.

definitely.

When I was in vancouver, there was homeless people on the street yelling "kick me in the balls for 2 bucks" or "kick me in the head for 2 bucks"

and yes when those drunks left the bar at 3am and ran into one these homeless people screaming those quotes....they did just that..

its very very sad...the poor guy was start crying and rolling around the ground due to the pain, but then 5 minutes later he gets up and starts yelling out the quotes again.

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