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-- Are Dj's Musicians?
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Anyone can slap two tracks together, with a little practice, even beat-match them.

Can they mix harmonically though?
Can they plan a set musically so the night can flow?
Can they work a crowd with chords so they feel emotion and enjoy a set?

It takes more than just putting CD's in a CD player or vinyl on a record to be a DJ.

Are DJ's musicians? Yes, more now than ever especially with the demand that the DJ is also the producer.

quote:

Originally posted by jennypie Good DJs are, yes.

+1


let's take some examples shall we?

trance:
is someone like armin considered a musician when he slops his latest trance hits from asot into a mix and sells it as ASOT2007!!! ? hell no. he's more like a promoter of a genre.

how about some other classic mixes like pvd's POD (vol 1 not vol2), where paul basically deconstructs every single song, than reconstructs the songs into a seamless mix. is he considered a musician? hell ya!

being a musician is like cooking, anyone can slop together some ingredients and call himself a cook, but than there are chefs that people actually pay big money to eat their food. the difference? they have a mastery of the ingredients that is beyond the scope of normal people where they impeccably mix ingredients to produce a work of art

who fucking cares... shut up dance

LIKE definitely not.
I would know because i have right to validate and judge any person.

oh yeah and I have phd in music, which I bought online the other day.


ya p.s.
I've be
en to three clubs before

quote:

Originally posted by activate who fucking cares... shut up dance

ahaha ya true but if that was the case then there would be no need for a site like this

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut No. Producers aren't necessarily musicians either, although a lot of the better producers also play/played one or more instruments instruments.

agreed! even producers aren't necessarily musicians. If the extent of the song a producer makes is playing 3 notes on a midi controller to get some crazy synth sound, i think it'd be loose to classify him or her as a musician.

As one of the previous comments about a girl playing a flute is a musician, well no, they're learning. A musician is someone who has mastered (to some degree) an instrument that they play (for a very vague classification, i'd say being at least at grade 8 ROM level in piano could give you the 'musician' status. but of course there are many expections to that, as not everyone goes the testing route. (and for other instruments, the skill level can be fairly high by grade 5-6 even)

quote:

Originally posted by electro funk ahaha ya true but if that was the case then there would be no need for a site like this

what?

he said shut up and dance. a very good statement but if we were all to shut up we wouldn't be talking on here.

quote:

Originally posted by Porky how about some other classic mixes like pvd's POD (vol 1 not vol2), where paul basically deconstructs every single song, than reconstructs the songs into a seamless mix. is he considered a musician? hell ya!

There's definitely a lot more talent and work involved in that, but it's still analogous to a very carefully-prepared collage - not the same as actually painting or taking the photos.

Live PAs are the closest thing. Sometimes they actually involve playing instruments, but even when they don't, it's the aspect of composing the sounds in real time that's important.

I suppose there are more general definitions of "musician" - i.e. "a person who makes music a profession" - but if you try to use that definition literally then you have to start including the promoters and club owners too. Musicians are people that either play a musical instrument, compose, or conduct. Turntables aren't an instrument, mixing isn't composition, and you can't conduct a machine.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut Live PAs are the closest thing. Sometimes they actually involve playing instruments, but even when they don't, it's the aspect of composing the sounds in real time that's important.

I would have to agree with your post, especially this segment. So my answer would also be

NON!

quote:

Originally posted by djbruuen agreed! even producers aren't necessarily musicians. If the extent of the song a producer makes is playing 3 notes on a midi controller to get some crazy synth sound, i think it'd be loose to classify him or her as a musician. As one of the previous comments about a girl playing a flute is a musician, well no, they're learning. A musician is someone who has mastered (to some degree) an instrument that they play (for a very vague classification, i'd say being at least at grade 8 ROM level in piano could give you the 'musician' status. but of course there are many expections to that, as not everyone goes the testing route. (and for other instruments, the skill level can be fairly high by grade 5-6 even)

Very true.

Some valid points have been made here.
Although there are some Djs who are also strong musicians but beeing a Dj in particular can't make one a musician.
Aside from that I catogorise a strong Dj set as a work of art. Since it can put someone in a certain jounrey which wouldn't happen if one only listened to the same song individualy.

As a matter of fact most Djs know where they stand and don clame themselves as musicains. They know what their occuipation and profession is and they're fine with it.

quote:

Originally posted by geroin no a dj is not a musician unless he/she produces music imo

im jumping on this bandwagon.

quote:

Originally posted by me@t k@tie A DJ plays music. A musician is basically defined as one who plays or composes music.

I push play on my CD player so that makes me a musician?

A DJ is someone who plays records and is there to entertain us. They are more of an entertainer then they are anything else....I would put them at the same level as the clowns that get out of the small fire truck at the circus.

a musician makes music, DJs simply play music someone else has made. Granted there is some skill involved in reading the crowd, mixing, etc. but they don't actually create anything other then atmosphere.

quote:

Originally posted by activate who fucking cares... shut up dance

I have to agree
though anyone who is brought in to a club to provide, through whatever means, music for people to dance to should be considered a musician!

Who is to say the defintion of the word musician cannot or has not been expanded to incorporate people like DJs, producers, people who do live PAs?

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced I push play on my CD player so that makes me a musician?

Pfft. All Mozart did was sit there and arrange piano notes in a harmonic manner. My 5 year-old niece can do that. so Mozart's not a musician.

My point is, you can knock down anyone's musical efforts down to 0 without any problems. Putting someone down is easy. If you think all a DJ does is push play on a CD player, then I guess all Mozart did is push keys on a piano. Big whoop, right?

I think a musician is anyone who creates or manipulates music, in any and every possible way. So when a DJ feeds another bassline into a track, has the two tracks play in harmony with each other, and then brings the first track back as flawlessly as he cut it out, that's making music. It's taking two things, and making something new out of them. It really doesn't matter to me that he didn't make each of the things from scratch.

Also, since there is skill involved in being able to properly DJ, that also attributes to the DJ being a musician since it requires skill, and an ear for music.

So yeah, a DJ is definitely a musician. A modern musician, but a musician nevertheless.

Lastly, I don't think you don't really appreciate music if in your assessment of it, you're focusing on the means through which it was created instead of the end result. The end result IS music, how you get there is entirely up to the musician, and quite frankly, doesn't really matter.

P.S. It goes without saying that producers are musicians. If you're going to deny someone their musical ability simply because they're using electronic means to create music, you deserve to be cock-slapped across the face.

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Pfft. All Mozart did was sit there and arrange piano notes in a harmonic manner. My 5 year-old niece can do that. so Mozart's not a musician. My point is, you can knock down anyone's musical efforts down to 0 without any problems. Putting someone down is easy. If you think all a DJ does is push play on a CD player, then I guess all Mozart did is push keys on a piano. Big whoop, right? I think a musician is anyone who creates or manipulates music, in any and every possible way. So when a DJ feeds another bassline into a track, has the two tracks play in harmony with each other, and then brings the first track back as flawlessly as he cut it out, that's making music. It's taking two things, and making something new out of them. It really doesn't matter to me that he didn't make each of the things from scratch. Also, since there is skill involved in being able to properly DJ, that also attributes to the DJ being a musician since it requires skill, and an ear for music. So yeah, a DJ is definitely a musician. A modern musician, but a musician nevertheless. Lastly, I don't think you don't really appreciate music if in your assessment of it, you're focusing on the means through which it was created instead of the end result. The end result IS music, how you get there is entirely up to the musician, and quite frankly, doesn't really matter. P.S. It goes without saying that producers are musicians. If you're going to deny someone their musical ability simply because they're using electronic means to create music, you deserve to be cock-slapped across the face.

there's a HUGE difference in musical ability of being able to mix songs seamlessly.. than compared to writing a piano concerto.

it's like comparing a 10yr old junior varsity basketball player to michael jordan

quote:

Originally posted by Porky there's a HUGE difference in musical ability of being able to mix songs seamlessly.. than compared to writing a piano concerto. it's like comparing a 10yr old junior varsity basketball player to michael jordan

So what made you the authoritative body on deciding what takes enough musical ability to be a musician, and what doesn't? I'm not saying they're the same thing. I'm saying the people who practise both are musicians. Just like both the varsity player and Michael Jordan are both basketball players.

some are, some aren't.

and the agruement that some of you are using saying because a DJ plays someone else's music means he is not a musician, what do you guys think the symphony does? plays some old guy's music back to you. it's not like beethoven is there playing it for you. and please, you can't tell me that the TSO's conductor and symphony are not musicians. even choirs singing songs are someone elses songs! a musical? someone elses songs again!

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess and the agruement that some of you are using saying because a DJ plays someone else's music means he is not a musician, what do you guys think the symphony does? plays some old guy's music back to you. it's not like beethoven is there playing it for you. and please, you can't tell me that the TSO's conductor and symphony are not musicians. even choirs singing songs are someone elses songs! a musical? someone elses songs again!

Marg wins

quote:

Originally posted by Cosmic Fur

That's just an opinion.
But look, no one's taking credit away from DJs here. We're all discussing on the usage of the term "musician" that if it can include DJs or not. We can call someone who can mix two tracks harmonically and puts it back flawlessly a musician or any other term.
It neither adds nor takes any credit away from the effort and the work of art that they're providing for the audience.

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess and the agruement that some of you are using saying because a DJ plays someone else's music means he is not a musician, what do you guys think the symphony does?

I believe the difference here is that the symphony is actually generating the notes that the audience hears whereas the DJ is simply putting pre-recorded music stored on one media or another into a machine that transferes the recorded data into audiable music. In the former the people are required in order to make the music.

quote:

Originally posted by Moral Hazard I believe the difference here is that the symphony is actually generating the notes that the audience hears whereas the DJ is simply putting pre-recorded music stored on one media or another into a machine that transferes the recorded data into audiable music. In the former the people are required in order to make the music.

i just think that if garbage cans can be condidered musical instruments (a la Stomp), then so can turntables. i mean there are many things that you are adjusting while DJing, it's not just pressing play and hoping things line up. Playing with the sound on a vinyl/CD is like playing an instrument.

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