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-- Kindergarten Graduation Ceremony in Gaza
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Originally posted by cdzromm do us all a favor and look up UN resolution 242

Already done that, and a lot more research .

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Already done that, and a lot more research .

then what is your opinion on it?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Israel came in to existance via ethnic cleansing, persecution, death, desruction, deciet, theft, tremendous pressure on Western goverments for it's creation and continued existance (Balford Declaration of 1917 and AIPAC), and helping Hitler's rise to power in order to generate support for Zionism by slaughtering Sephardic and even Ashkenazi Jews, amongst numerous other victims of the holocaust. So Zioinsts are a death cult, you're quite correct on that. They'll even slaughter Jews to achieve their political and ideological objectives.

yeah, it's too bad that idiots willing to teach their kindergartners this are the only ones who believe it.

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Originally posted by Q5echo yeah, it's too bad that idiots willing to teach their kindergartners this are the only ones who believe it.

lmao

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Originally posted by Q5echo yeah, it's too bad that idiots willing to teach their kindergartners this are the only ones who believe it.

Yes, one example from this thread would be Lenni Brenner. You're the fucking idiot, idiot lol.

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November 2nd, 1917. Dear Lord Rothschild, I have much pleasure in conveying to you, on behalf of His Majesty's Government, the following declaration of sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations which has been submitted to, and approved by, the Cabinet: "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country". I should be grateful if you would bring this declaration to the knowledge of the Zionist Federation. Yours sincerely Arthur James Balfour

so your saying this letter from James Balfour to the British Parliament was responsible for ethnic cleansing in Palestine and was partly responsible for Hitler's rise to power?

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z You're the fucking idiot, idiot lol.

everyday for you is one closer to martyrdom, isn't it? c'mon you can tell us.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Brenner was born into an Orthodox Jewish family. He became an atheist at age 12 and a Marxist at age 15/i]

[/credibility]

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Originally posted by Capitalizt [/credibility]

and... how does that detract from it....

I love how no one addresses facts, figures, maps, quotes, or any of that except with one word or one line answers like "credibility" or "anti-semitism". "Y'all" are the ones lacking credibility, learn how construct an even semi-decent argument or shut the hell up.

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Originally posted by cdzromm absolutely horrifying... people dont understand that this is how these kids are brought up. no wonder they cheer in the streets when they blow up busses full of israeli children

How are they any different to the Settlers?

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Originally posted by George Smiley How are they any different to the Settlers?

because they dont blow themselves up and then blow firecrackers and cheer about it in the streets

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Originally posted by cdzromm because they dont blow themselves up and then blow firecrackers and cheer about it in the streets

Yeah, they use tanks, bulldozers, automatics, hellicopters, and f-16s instead.

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Originally posted by cdzromm because they dont blow themselves up and then blow firecrackers and cheer about it in the streets

No they have a nation's military to do it for them.

Tho they do have celebrations for Baruch Goldstein every year...care to tell me why if they are so different from the other side's terrorists?

Just love how this has turned into a chicken and egg argument when there is none.
The truth is caught on video. EOD.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Just love how this has turned into a chicken and egg argument when there is none. The truth is caught on video. EOD.

I for one am not denying what is there. To solve a problem though, it is crucial to understand where it came from and how it developed. It would be meaningless to try and deny that what is shown in the video is happening. This is however a discussion forum, and discussing the origins of this problem is relevant to the topic.

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Originally posted by venomX I for one am not denying what is there. To solve a problem though, it is crucial to understand where it came from and how it developed. It would be meaningless to try and deny that what is shown in the video is happening. This is however a discussion forum, and discussing the origins of this problem is relevant to the topic.

Why is it critical?
I can almost guarantee that everybody knows the answer (or at least partially) and that wouldn't change a thing.
It certainly hasn't for over 50 years, why should it magically stop now?

Is our society that ignorant of responsibility that they don't even recognize it in others when they do something wrong?
Why does it always have to be that someone has to point the finger somewhere else when the truth is looking them straight in the eye? (or in the mirror for that matter).

I don't know what's worse, not taking responsibility and always blaming someone else, or the person supporting them because they believe they're not to blame either even though the facts show that they are wrong.

Victimhood is a disease that needs to be discussed...
What is 'Victimhood'?

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The victim's basic stance is that he or she: 1. Is not responsible for what happened. 2. Is always morally right. 3. Is not accountable. 4. Is forever entitled to sympathy. 5. Is justified in feeling moral indignation for being wronged.

>>Source<<

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Yeah, they use tanks, bulldozers, automatics, hellicopters, and f-16s instead.

Which all seem to be targetting specific suspects, as opposed to the rockets fired from gaza into Israel with no specific target and the self-bombers with no specific victims (but rather a random public crowd) to kill.

While I watched the video I couldn't help but to think how cool the song sounded. My mom used to take me Israeli folk dancing and there were a lot of cool Arabic songs played there too.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Why is it critical? I can almost guarantee that everybody knows the answer (or at least partially) and that wouldn't change a thing. It certainly hasn't for over 50 years, why should it magically stop now? Is our society that ignorant of responsibility that they don't even recognize it in others when they do something wrong? Why does it always have to be that someone has to point the finger somewhere else when the truth is looking them straight in the eye? (or in the mirror for that matter). I don't know what's worse, not taking responsibility and always blaming someone else, or the person supporting them because they believe they're not to blame either even though the facts show that they are wrong. Victimhood is a disease that needs to be discussed... What is 'Victimhood'? >>Source<<

sanity.

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Originally posted by Fir3start3r Why is it critical? I can almost guarantee that everybody knows the answer (or at least partially) and that wouldn't change a thing. It certainly hasn't for over 50 years, why should it magically stop now? Is our society that ignorant of responsibility that they don't even recognize it in others when they do something wrong? Why does it always have to be that someone has to point the finger somewhere else when the truth is looking them straight in the eye? (or in the mirror for that matter). I don't know what's worse, not taking responsibility and always blaming someone else, or the person supporting them because they believe they're not to blame either even though the facts show that they are wrong. Victimhood is a disease that needs to be discussed... What is 'Victimhood'? >>Source<<

Your post represents all that's wrong with the US's and other countries foreign policy. You think these people are like this by nature? Or did they become like this due to certain circumstances? If you don't believe they are inherently like this then knowing why they became like this is critical to solving any situation. Saying that 'oh the problem is right there, they are brainwashing they're kids' leads to 'lets stop them from brainwashing them'. But that doesn't solve anything in the long run does it? You stop them from brainwashing they're kids, they'll come up with some other strategy.

On 'Victimhood', it's the same thing. People are usually victims of circumstance. Not to say that they're decisions don't count, but it is pretty well established that circumstances have more to do with decision making than internal dispositions. So if you are to evaluate someone's behavior the circumstances are crucial to understanding why that person behaved that way.

In light of this, I state my point again, knowing why these people (in the middle east) became this way will lead to better solutions. You say, people have known why for many years. I say, the foreign policy of many a country, including the US (even when you say they know the reasons behind the struggle) do not take into account those reasons.

Fir3start3r
Zionism Terrorism is worse

Watch people

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Originally posted by venomX You think these people are like this by nature?

yes.

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Or did they become like this due to certain circumstances?

yes.

it's not either/or

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Saying that 'oh the problem is right there, they are brainwashing they're kids' leads to 'lets stop them from brainwashing them'.

i don't think anyone serious is saying "let's stop them from brainwashing" serious people know it's much more complicated than the simplistic terms you are laying out.

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You stop them from brainwashing they're kids, they'll come up with some other strategy.

agree, b/c this is about the the ultimate destruction of Israel. this is about pure genocide. in addition, it's about the Arab indifference towards Palestinians and a much broader problem of Islamic fascism and all the garbage that goes along with it.

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In light of this, I state my point again, knowing why these people (in the middle east) became this way will lead to better solutions.

WE'RE ALL EARS

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Originally posted by M.Johan Fir3start3r Zionism Terrorism is worse Watch people

I didn't realize this was a contest...

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Originally posted by Q5echo yes. yes. it's not either/or

Indeed, it is not either/or. I do ascribe more importance to situational factors when it comes to their current behavior. Saying that these people are inherently violent is repeating the mistake made many times in the past, for history has seen the slaughter of many 'barbarians'.

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i don't think anyone serious is saying "let's stop them from brainwashing" serious people know it's much more complicated than the simplistic terms you are laying out.

To the best of my knowledge I can not think of US foreign policy that is more complex than that. Yes, the US blundered into a war in Iraq, bu the first steps it took when reconstructing the country where all wrong. Where were the medical facilities, schools, churches? Where was the support for moderates? Where was the direct aid to families, communities? Instead your government tried to erect an government right away, compromised by people that were inexperienced and wary by years of violent repression. All the plans, all the policies that you're country has directed towards this region have been simplistic. And my point is that this simplicity is caused by a lack of understanding of how poverty, ignorance and desperation have shaped the world view of these people.

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agree, b/c this is about the the ultimate destruction of Israel. this is about pure genocide. in addition, it's about the Arab indifference towards Palestinians and a much broader problem of Islamic fascism and all the garbage that goes along with it.

That is the easy exit. You accuse me of oversimplifying ideas, and yet here you are saying that the whole problem in the middle east is about the extermination of Israel. This sole idea corroborates my point above. Most of your country's populace have no idea of the complex scenario that has lead to the current problems in the middle east. Note, that even though we are limiting our discussion to the middle east, poverty, hunger and desperation are creating movements such as those present in Palestine in other places. Islam is just a convenient vehicle in a more complex struggle by oppressed people around the world.

As a side note, I will completely acknowledge that there are those on the extreme end i.e. those that are not related to anti oppression movements but hold extreme interpretations of the Koran. I am not however talking about that group of people, but of those that are fighting (as many in palestine) against oppression.

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WE'RE ALL EARS

Refer to my above post for some ideas. It is a complex situation. I do not deny that some use of force may be useful. The problem is that the use of force is not being followed through with measures that will help empower these people so that they can take charge of they're own future. Direct aid to communities is one route not often travelled. Instead of dishing out money to government or organizations, support could be given to individual communities. Contingencies could be added to particular aid. Educational and medical projects are also of high importance. I do not intend to develop a comprehensive plan on how to solve this situation, as I am neither a citizen or politician of your country. I do believe that there is something to be learned about the circumstances of these people. There is something to be learned in acknowledging they're suffering and the injustice committed by your countries policy's and other country's policies against them.

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Originally posted by shaolin_Z Spoken like a true Zionist (aka Nazi).

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Originally posted by Capitalizt I find it amusing that you blow your father with that filthy mouth of yours.

*FIXED*

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Originally posted by emc^2 *FIXED*

Useless ad hominem, refer to the rules of this forum. If you can't keep it civil, leave.

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