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-- 320 Mp3 vs. wav
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I recommend to anyone who is doubtfull about the difference between .mp3 and .wav to go ahead and just purchase the same track in both formats and then listen themselves.

On a club system you won't notice the difference. At home on studio monitors you can hear a bit of a difference.

I can here a difference, and for alittle bit more why not have a quality recording that does not take anything away from the original. Large hard drives are cheep now and downloading music is nothing compared to the cost of buying records. What ever happened to that animated graph that showed how as you go from wave though the verious levels of mp3 the loss? If you enjoy misic and are buying it why not treet you self and others to the best music experience you can?

Allen

c) flac
d) VBR mp3..

I like the analogy of watching a movie without wearing glasses.

Only after a few years of listening to a variety of music in a variety of settings was I able to differentiate between 192mp3, 320mp3 and wav.

mp3's below 320 generally sound like crap to my ears, and 320 is usually adequate. However, for a select portion of tracks (maybe 100 in my collection), I need to have them in wav format because they don't sound great as mp3s. "Angello & Ingrosso - Yeah" is a good example. More and more of my collection is in wav format these days though. As stated, downloading and digital storage is cheap, so why not?

Headphones aren't so bad, but in my car stereo (200W Harmon Kardon), low quality mp3s are USSSSSSSSSSSELESS.

In a club low quality mp3s are fine. There's so much reverb and other noise that you can't tell anyway. However, mp3s lack a bit of the bass that wavs do, so this might get noticed if someone with a good ear knows the track very well, but it's unlikely.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog so this might get noticed if someone with a good ear knows the track very well, but it's unlikely.

But then how would they tell that it's from the recording and not just the sound setup?

Thanks for all the input. So basically the common person can't really tell the difference between a 320 mp3 and wav. It basically boils down to whether or not you want to pay the extra money (and for those that can tell whether you can tell on the system(s) you're playing on).

quote:

Originally posted by Project-K But then how would they tell that it's from the recording and not just the sound setup?

They can't tell I suppose. However, if someone notices the difference, regardless of what they think made it (the recording, the sound system, the guy next to them dropping his guts), then that's a rock solid argument against using mp3s.

Unless your point is that you can easily use shitty mp3s in a club and get away with it, and I agree (only recently).

quote:

Originally posted by saltytheseagull Thanks for all the input. So basically the common person can't really tell the difference between a 320 mp3 and wav. It basically boils down to whether or not you want to pay the extra money (and for those that can tell whether you can tell on the system(s) you're playing on).

Correct. Hell, the "common" person can't even tell the difference between a well encoded 192kpbs and a 320kpbs mp3.

for some strange reason, i can't imagine buying mp3's... i always buy .wav's. if i'm gonna put money down on a track, i want every little thing/detail the track has to offer. i want the best i can get, so i end up buying .wav's.

then, if really have to, i'll make my own mp3.

several times i have thought about just buying mp3's so i can do more w/the same amount of money... but i just can't do it. it feels cheap to me.

quote:

Originally posted by RJT You could play a 192kbps MP3 in any club you'll ever play and nobody will be able to tell the difference. Anyone who says they can is either: A. Lying B. A Mutant

wow, i thought i was pretty normal. now i know that i'm a mutant. Are you fucking kidding me? you must go to clubs with really shitty sound systems.

Most sound systems are usually rubbish anyway from years of abuse, so you could probably even use 128. Even if you do use low bitrates in a good club they often have some sort of audio enhancement or amplifier that makes it sound better than it would normally.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero wow, i thought i was pretty normal. now i know that i'm a mutant. Are you fucking kidding me? you must go to clubs with really shitty sound systems.

Mutants of the world unite!!!

Actually what hacks me off a little is that people presume just becuase they can't do something that others can't.

The question should be, does it make a big enough difference to warrant not using them... the answer is no it doesn't.

Can you hear the difference... If you have the ability to hear the difference, sure you can.
I remember the first time I saw someone drop a set on CDs (This is going back quite a few years) after someone had played an all vinyl set, I knew there was a difference straight away. I went and checked out the DJs and sure enough there was my answer, I didn't know what the difference was at first as this was a new thing for me at the time but over the years I have learnt to recognise the difference. The same goes with MP3s, especially on sounds systems that I know well.

I guess this is going to be a constant arguement and those that can tell are not able to convince those that can't... It's absurd for a guy who can't tell to keep bangin on about how you can't just because he/she can't.
Some people have perfect pitch, some think they have, some don't believe it exists and others donn't care...

Sure, you get vinyl that sounds shit too, but that's usually due to the mixdown on the track or if it's a dub plate.

This discussion even goes on between the top DJs in the world with some saying you can and some you can't... often the guys who produce music say you can. Your ears reach a different level that you can't begin to imagine if you are just DJing. You will notice details in other peoples productions that annoy the shit out of you that you may not have cared about if you just listened to and enjoyed the music as it was inteneded but this is not the path we chose and we have to accept that.

You could compare it to a DJ in the crowd hearing another DJ virtually train wreck whilst the clubber thinks that the DJ did an amazing mix. Same difference. It's what your ears are used to.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 You could compare it to a DJ in the crowd hearing another DJ virtually train wreck whilst the clubber thinks that the DJ did an amazing mix. Same difference.

Tiesto?

Let's just say certain people, highly regarded dj's from the top100 playes several tracks of mine thinking they had the WAV. I actually lost that and the source-file aswell. So I did a 320kpbs mp3 > wav decode to pretend I did have a wav in order to get the release. Some of these dj's pretended to hear the difference between mp3 and wav. If they did they wouldn't have played that certain track. I don't believe them anymore and won't take them seriously about this topic anymore. In most cases the difference just isn't audible for any regular human.

I do believe it's audible in some cases. Luckily the audience doesn't care/hear if it's a 320kbps mp3 or wav. I would like to note that I don't go any lower than 320kbps.. On another forum I did a test and and had 256/320 mistaken for eachother, but below 256 the compression becomes quite audible.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Mutants of the world unite!!! Actually what hacks me off a little is that people presume just becuase they can't do something that others can't. The question should be, does it make a big enough difference to warrant not using them... the answer is no it doesn't. Can you hear the difference... If you have the ability to hear the difference, sure you can. I remember the first time I saw someone drop a set on CDs (This is going back quite a few years) after someone had played an all vinyl set, I knew there was a difference straight away. I went and checked out the DJs and sure enough there was my answer, I didn't know what the difference was at first as this was a new thing for me at the time but over the years I have learnt to recognise the difference. The same goes with MP3s, especially on sounds systems that I know well. I guess this is going to be a constant arguement and those that can tell are not able to convince those that can't... It's absurd for a guy who can't tell to keep bangin on about how you can't just because he/she can't. Some people have perfect pitch, some think they have, some don't believe it exists and others donn't care... Sure, you get vinyl that sounds shit too, but that's usually due to the mixdown on the track or if it's a dub plate. This discussion even goes on between the top DJs in the world with some saying you can and some you can't... often the guys who produce music say you can. Your ears reach a different level that you can't begin to imagine if you are just DJing. You will notice details in other peoples productions that annoy the shit out of you that you may not have cared about if you just listened to and enjoyed the music as it was inteneded but this is not the path we chose and we have to accept that. You could compare it to a DJ in the crowd hearing another DJ virtually train wreck whilst the clubber thinks that the DJ did an amazing mix. Same difference. It's what your ears are used to. Cheers Nem

Well put, it does get annoying when people say that something is impossible just because they can't do it!!

It's even more annoying when someone pretends he can while he obviously can't. Like in my case

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller It's even more annoying when someone pretends he can while he obviously can't. Like in my case

lol

WAVs are too big, take a long time to download even on a high-speed connection like DSL or Cable, and just aren't worth the extra money or HD space. I just mix as a hobby, basically an extension of listening, so as 320s are more than adequate for listening enjoyment, they are worth it. Even if your a big name DJ, playing out in clubs or festivals, 320s are fine.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Let's just say certain people, highly regarded dj's from the top100 playes several tracks of mine thinking they had the WAV. I actually lost that and the source-file aswell. So I did a 320kpbs mp3 > wav decode to pretend I did have a wav in order to get the release. Some of these dj's pretended to hear the difference between mp3 and wav. If they did they wouldn't have played that certain track. I don't believe them anymore and won't take them seriously about this topic anymore. In most cases the difference just isn't audible for any regular human.

I have to admit that not playing it just because it's MP3, sounds like a dumbass or totally snobbish outlook. I am still a strong believer in playing a tune because it's good not because of the format unless the quality is so bad that it's offensive.

I think on the other part we will have to agree to disagree but for the record, I would have played your tune if it would work with what I do, regardless of MP3, WAV or Vinyl. And they are very good even if they are not my style.

Besides, a lot of the Top 100 DJs also call themselves producers when in actual fact they sit down with an engineer and say what they want... they may have good ideas but know fuck all about production in any great detail, but it works for them so good luck to them.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Besides, a lot of the Top 100 DJs also call themselves producers when in actual fact they sit down with an engineer and say what they want... they may have good ideas but know fuck all about production in any great detail, but it works for them so good luck to them. Cheers Nem

God damn, so true! I know many top 50 who walk out of a studio if their engineer isn't there because they don't know what they are doing.

I think the whole point is, if you're a bedroom dj, it really doesn't matter about true sonic quality, unless you really care.

If you're playing out you should always go for the best quality, because club systems are designed to make a small sound very fucking big, and along with it the noise, mud, crackle etc. Loads of clubs have great sound systems and playing 192's on them is a waste of that system's quality.

One thing everyone is forgetting, many people in clubs (TA's for instance) are much more discerning than they used to be as clubers are often home producers and DJ's. If you notice the difference, then chances are a good few other people in club have too.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller So I did a 320kpbs mp3 > wav decode to pretend I did have a wav in order to get the release.

Its sad but true. Some tracks i get in wave from beatport do sound like they were sourced from mp3. I thought beatport was doing that in order to sell those track to wave buyers or to make extra buck.

A lot of regular people don't even know what 320kbps, WAV, AIFF, or even bitrate is. Heck, a lot of DJ's don't even know that.

I try to buy 320, but if I can't find it on 320, I'm not bitter about it.

Last year I recorded a Top 10 DJ's set. I told him in advanced that I would be recording his set and his reply was... CAN I GET A COPY ON 192KPBS.

Minimum bit-rate I go for is 320Kbps, and YES there is a noticable difference between 320kbps and a lossless Wav file. I also only record my mixes in 320kbps/or WAV.

Listen to 2 tracks in Headphones between 192kbps and 320 and you should definately hear the difference, especially the detail of the high-hats and the clarity of the bass-line. You can also go louder with better quality tracks before distortion as well.

Only down-side to better quality is the amount of space a 320kbps track takes in comparison to that of 192. Small price to pay in my opinion however.

quote:

Originally posted by Vero wow, i thought i was pretty normal. now i know that i'm a mutant. Are you fucking kidding me? you must go to clubs with really shitty sound systems.

I don't consider Funktion 1 soundsystems shit, but whatever claims rock your cock m8 - you're so l337, my hero.

Bottom line is that I can hear the difference between 192 and 320. But the difference is very little between 320 and WAV. Anyway some clubs have so shitty sound systems that I wonder if they play 128 kps mp3

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