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-- Transit City: LRT Survey
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quote:

Originally posted by jchung52

They have similar looking ones @ the Pearson International airport,but they only run between the terminals....

Way to go with the new transport. Hopefully it'll be better for traffic - AND hopefully the system will be better than the current one, thus more ppl will want to take public transportation and drive less. I like how the cars are environmentally friendly too. A step in the right direction IMO.

First of all, some people here seem to be confusing Light Rail with Monorail (i.e. the photo). Totally different things. Light Rail is not elevated and is not rapid transit. At least, not the LR that Toronto is talking about.

For those saying that all the problems with streetcars/LRV can be boiled down to the fact that cars and streetcars have to share a lane, how exactly does making the lane inaccessible to cars help the situation? That is even more inefficient, it will create worse traffic jams which is a bad thing even from an environmental perspective. Good for commuters perhaps, terrible for drivers.

There's no way to spin this as something that would benefit auto drivers, unless it turns out to be fast and reliable and comfortable enough to attract people who would normally be driving. It's certainly possible, but given this city's track record for transit infrastructure, I'm not very optimistic.

And yes, I know that many of you who live in the downtown core and almost never leave it don't care what happens to ordinary traffic. That's precisely how we got into the situation that we're currently in.

A public viewing opportunity to see an LRV will be avaliable at the following sites...

- Monday, June 25th (12 noon - 8pm)
Finch Station, one level below the bus terminal - 5174 Yonge Street

- Tuesday, June 26th (12 noon - 8pm)
Scarborough Centre Station, outside of the TTC station entrance - 300 Borough Drive

- Wednesday, June 27th (12 noon - 8pm)
The Albion Centre, Centre Court - 1530 Albion Road

- Thursday, June 28th (12 noon -8pm)
Yonge-Dundas Square, south-east corner of Yonge & Dundas



This is the version of a Bombardier LRV (in Minneapolis colors) that people will be able to see.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut First of all, some people here seem to be confusing Light Rail with Monorail (i.e. the photo). Totally different things. Light Rail is not elevated and is not rapid transit. At least, not the LR that Toronto is talking about. For those saying that all the problems with streetcars/LRV can be boiled down to the fact that cars and streetcars have to share a lane, how exactly does making the lane inaccessible to cars help the situation? That is even more inefficient, it will create worse traffic jams which is a bad thing even from an environmental perspective. Good for commuters perhaps, terrible for drivers. There's no way to spin this as something that would benefit auto drivers, unless it turns out to be fast and reliable and comfortable enough to attract people who would normally be driving. It's certainly possible, but given this city's track record for transit infrastructure, I'm not very optimistic. And yes, I know that many of you who live in the downtown core and almost never leave it don't care what happens to ordinary traffic. That's precisely how we got into the situation that we're currently in.

by posting the pic, i was hinting that we should just get raised monorails running through the city... im not that stupid

http://www.combinoplus.ca/

check out the new proposal for their version of the new TTC LRV's in a short video that they made.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky http://www.combinoplus.ca/ check out the new proposal for their version of the new TTC LRV's in a short video that they made.

there were ads for this plastered all over Metro and 24 papers this morning ...

i wonder what the Bombardier Unions will have to say about this ..

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut First of all, some people here seem to be confusing Light Rail with Monorail (i.e. the photo). Totally different things. Light Rail is not elevated and is not rapid transit. At least, not the LR that Toronto is talking about.

quote:

Toronto transit plan promises plenty but pays for precious little September 23, 2008 at 11:22 PM EDT TORONTO � A long-awaited master plan to boost public transit, unveiled Tuesday, pledges to transform the Toronto region over the next 25 years � but fails to detail how it would cover most of its $50-billion price tag. The plan from the province's Metrolinx agency, chaired by former Burlington mayor Rob MacIsaac, comes after months of discussions about the need for radical measures to raise billions for public transit, including a 10-cent-a-kilometre toll on major expressways, a parking tax or a regional sales tax. But in a �draft investment strategy� short on specifics and released alongside a long list of previously reported new bus, light-rail and subway lines, Metrolinx backed away from ideas such as tolls and delayed further consideration of what it called �new revenue tools� until at least 2013. Mr. MacIsaac told reporters the public needs to get a taste of major public-transit improvements before it can stomach anything like road tolls: �We are committed to finding a way to move forward with this that's not going to get mired in controversy.� Until 2015, the plan says, the province's previously promised $11.5-billion MoveOntario 2020 program for public transit will cover the Metrolinx plan's costs. A hoped-for federal contribution of $6-billion to MoveOntario 2020 would allow construction to continue until 2018, it adds. Metrolinx also says it will study new ways to �capture� some of the boost to land values created by public transit, as well as looking at increased development charges and partnerships with the private sector. Both Premier Dalton McGuinty and Minister of Transportation Jim Bradley have previously ruled out road tolls, and the Metrolinx plan was delayed over the summer to allow the province to examine its proposals. Mr. Bradley, asked Tuesday if Queen's Park would foot the bill past 2013, was non-committal: �I think it's difficult to be specific that far ahead other than to say I think the province would be there.� Metrolinx officials drafting the plan had also met with anti-tax activist Kevin Gaudet of the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, who was on hand at Tuesday's unveiling and praised the plan: �We're pleased to see that taxpayers have been saved from the prospect of new taxes, new tolls, road fees and congestion charges.� Metrolinx's draft plan also shows the continuing state of the disagreement between Metrolinx and the Toronto Transit Commission over Toronto's proposal for a partially tunnelled light-rail line for Eglinton. Metrolinx and the TTC had clashed over the provincial agency's insistence on a more expensive but faster and fully tunnelled rapid-transit line using vehicles similar to those on the Scarborough RT or Vancouver's SkyTrain. TTC officials have argued that their ridership projections do not warrant the more expensive line, which they say would cost as much as $10-billion, compared to a light-rail line's $2.2-billion estimated cost. The plan released Tuesday refers to a �rapid transit� line for Eglinton, saying it could be buses, light-rail or another technology. But it also suggests the Eglinton line could become part of a refurbished and lengthened Scarborough RT line running all the way from Scarborough to the Pearson Airport. Mr. MacIsaac, who stressed the plan would still be refined, said he was confident Metrolinx and TTC planners would come to a consensus. Mayor David Miller denied there was a fight with Metrolinx over Eglinton and praised the draft plan. Pointing to the current federal election campaign, he said it was time Ottawa properly funded public transit. �Other countries do it. � Look at the transit funding program under [former] president Clinton and vice-president Gore in the United States. Look what they do in Europe,� Mr. Miller told reporters. The draft plan is to be debated on Friday by Metrolinx's 11-member board made up mostly of municipal politicians including Mr. Miller. Metrolinx says it will then seek public consultation before presenting a final plan to the provincial government in November, in time for consideration as part of its spring budget. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/serv...0923.wtransit23

Let's hope the length of planning actually leads to a well thought out system.

NOT!

quote:

TTC may introduce "smartcard" The TTC may join forces with other transit systems in the G-T-A, to introduce a 'smartcard' payment system. Smartcards are embedded with microchips which can be loaded with pre-paid fares for subways, busses, or even ferries. The National Post reports repreesntatives from Montreal's transit system were in toronto giving the TTC lessons on how the cards work. TTC chair Adam Giambrone tells the post a pilot project is now in the works. If its given the green light, the project is expected to cost the city anywhere from 250 to 300-million dollars, and would take upto seven years to complete. http://www.680news.com/news/headlin...920_093826_6836

What is wrong with these clowns? Seven years?

quote:

Originally posted by Zentac_75 I can speak for Warsaw and Krakow's systems. Lightyears ahead of what we have here. Actually I was in Amsterdam, and Prague this February. Same thing, No trouble getting around and I didn't even know the connecting routes very well.

When I went to Warsaw this August (after a 3 year absence) they improved the system even more. Now all stops on major streetcar routes have LCD screens which display which routes will arrive when at that particular stop for the next 25 minutes. Oh, and like half of their routes are already LRT's like what the TTC is only now pallning to introduce.

I guess if Ontario got money from the EU it would be a little different though, eh?

quote:

But it also suggests the Eglinton line could become part of a refurbished and lengthened Scarborough RT line running all the way from Scarborough to the Pearson Airport.

I wonder what the timetable for this is. I guess by 2050 it should happen?

quote:

Originally posted by Orko What is wrong with these clowns? Seven years?

LOL...how in the world does it take 7 years to incorporate something like this?? Goddamn!1

quote:

Originally posted by infinity HiGH LOL...how in the world does it take 7 years to incorporate something like this?? Goddamn!1

It's simple!

First, they spend a year figuring out which transit systems should be incorporated in the new smart card project. Then they spend a year convincing those networks that it's a good idea.

Next, they submit an RFP to smart card manufacturers with a 6-month timetable. Then they spend another 6 months deciding what the card will look like.

The cards and hardware are delivered 6 months after that, followed by a 1.5 year re-design because the new system isn't compatible with the existing, antiquated fare system. They'll eventually cancel that contract - at cost - and issue the contract to another vendor. Six months later we have the new system.

Next, we have to train TTC staff to install and maintain the system, which will take 6 months. Now allow six months to install the new system and market it to the TTC's ridership.

The last six months is used up repairing and re-installing the system after the TTC workers fuck it all up.

There you go, seven years later we have a barely useable, now outdated smart card system, which will require a retrofit two years later.

The system works!

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut For those saying that all the problems with streetcars/LRV can be boiled down to the fact that cars and streetcars have to share a lane, how exactly does making the lane inaccessible to cars help the situation? That is even more inefficient, it will create worse traffic jams which is a bad thing even from an environmental perspective. Good for commuters perhaps, terrible for drivers.

The problem is more from the fact that if the streetcar stops, all traffic on that street going same direction has to stop also. which basically means the traffic moves as fast as the streetcar (okay, slightly faster if the drivers pass the streetcar while it's moving, but that doesn't happen in rush hour). The streetcar lines that have dedicated lanes don't slow down the traffic moving next to the street car.

quote:

Originally posted by Orko What is wrong with these clowns? Seven years?

the ttc because it's stuck in a time warp, and the union as well. while all the other transit agencies should be on board presto aroudn 2012, ttc only then will want to consider if they want to be on board this program as well.

one of the main things is of course money. crying about how they are going to fund the inital costs and then the maintenance of the system. the other thing is that the union is afraid that the presto will take over the jobs of the booth collectors at subway stations.

but anyway, i'm not that excited about the GTAH transit plan because it's basically what moveontario2020 is. i haven't read it over yet, but from skimming through it, the two things that bug me the most is the delaying of the DRL to the 25 year plan which is just ridiculous. and the whole fiasco with the eglinton line and how they can't agree on what form of technology it'll be. those are, imo, 2 of the more important routes that need to be built asap.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky the ttc because it's stuck in a time warp, and the union as well. while all the other transit agencies should be on board presto aroudn 2012, ttc only then will want to consider if they want to be on board this program as well. one of the main things is of course money. crying about how they are going to fund the inital costs and then the maintenance of the system. the other thing is that the union is afraid that the presto will take over the jobs of the booth collectors at subway stations. but anyway, i'm not that excited about the GTAH transit plan because it's basically what moveontario2020 is. i haven't read it over yet, but from skimming through it, the two things that bug me the most is the delaying of the DRL to the 25 year plan which is just ridiculous. and the whole fiasco with the eglinton line and how they can't agree on what form of technology it'll be. those are, imo, 2 of the more important routes that need to be built asap.

Speaking of how useless the transit union is, does anyone else board the subway at yonge/sheppard using the entrance just west of yonge st? By Beecroft?

There is this ticket collector there who does fuck all everyday of the week. Its not a sales booth and she only takes exact change. All the bitch does all day is sit there and draw dragons in this binder she has, she doesn't even look at your metropass if you show it.

Maybe if the TTC wasn't stuck pandering to a useless union that keeps useless morons employed they'd have more money.

fuck i hate unions.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis only takes exact change

i love that part of the TTC collectors. YOU'RE A FUCKING HUMAN BEING WITH A BRAIN AND HANDS, WHY IN THE WORLD CAN'T YOU GIVE CHANGE???

A vending machine is less useless.

quote:

Originally posted by Dave Akermanis Speaking of how useless the transit union is, does anyone else board the subway at yonge/sheppard using the entrance just west of yonge st? By Beecroft? There is this ticket collector there who does fuck all everyday of the week. Its not a sales booth and she only takes exact change. All the bitch does all day is sit there and draw dragons in this binder she has, she doesn't even look at your metropass if you show it. Maybe if the TTC wasn't stuck pandering to a useless union that keeps useless morons employed they'd have more money. fuck i hate unions.

Take a picture and send in a complaint.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS It's simple! First, they spend a year figuring out which transit systems should be incorporated in the new smart card project. Then they spend a year convincing those networks that it's a good idea. Next, they submit an RFP to smart card manufacturers with a 6-month timetable. Then they spend another 6 months deciding what the card will look like. The cards and hardware are delivered 6 months after that, followed by a 1.5 year re-design because the new system isn't compatible with the existing, antiquated fare system. They'll eventually cancel that contract - at cost - and issue the contract to another vendor. Six months later we have the new system. Next, we have to train TTC staff to install and maintain the system, which will take 6 months. Now allow six months to install the new system and market it to the TTC's ridership. The last six months is used up repairing and re-installing the system after the TTC workers fuck it all up. There you go, seven years later we have a barely useable, now outdated smart card system, which will require a retrofit two years later. The system works!

Yes, I have to admit, the transit system in Toronto is quite embarrassing. After seeing Danish transit system this summer, I realized that we are so far behind. Let's forget for just a second that we have the most inefficient streetcar routes in the world, our bus's schedule resembles bus system of a small village somewhere in Asia, we have no transit serving one of the biggest airports in the world (literally every city has a bus or an RT serving the airport, but ours!); let's start with smaller things. You know, one thing that Toronto STILL doesn't have that is literally simple to do, is a time counter to next bus at any bus stops. When I get up every morning to work, and as I approach the bus stop, I see a bus driving away from me, I think that perhaps the next one will arrive in 10 mins (because thats what the freaking schedule says at the bus stop). After 25 mins of waiting (let's add a winter of -40C to the scenario), I see a great suprise! 3 BUSES ARRIVE AT ONCE! Wow! I must feel like a royalty then. I can choose a bus out of those three. Of course, the fact that i am already late to work doesn't make much difference anymore. So this summer, right after returning from Europe, I posed a question to one of the TTC's bus drivers about why don't we still have a simple bus counter system, that can allow me to know better when the next bus will arrive. To which he replied to me (I quote this word by word what he said - I shall never forget that answer): "Do you really want us to work like machines and follow the schedule minute by minute? We are humans after all."
This answer actually explains alot. It doesn't just answer the question regarding the bus counter system, but also clarifies the reason why it should take us 100000 years to build a normal, satisfying transit system that in some ways (but not even really) resembles European transit.
Thanks alot TTC, for shining us the ray of hope that our grandchildren some day will be able to take a bus to the airport; that they will not be late for work anymore. Honestly, Soviet transit was way better than Toronto's!

How can a TTC collector in a booth not issue change? Isn't that the sole purpose of having them at what would otherwise be a token/metropass entry only?

Fucking TTC union, fucking TTC...I was late this morning because of that same no-bus, three-bus shit.

I would happily pay $3.25 for a privately owned transit option if it meant reliable, timely service and the occasional service uprade.

Since I've been living in TO, fares have gone from $2.25 to $2.75 with the only improvements being new TV screens on SOME platforms.

It actually makes me WANT to buy a car, and I sold mine when I moved here because I wanted to use transit.

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar our bus's schedule resembles bus system of a small village somewhere in Asia,

really? i'll ask the names for 3 small villages in asia that compare to our bus system and the frequencies that they have, please.

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar we have no transit serving one of the biggest airports in the world (literally every city has a bus or an RT serving the airport, but ours!)

i guess i'll inform you a bit. http://www3.ttc.ca/Riding_the_TTC/Airport_service.jsp. While it's probably not the best service in the world, there is service. also blue22 and eglinton (w/e technology they use) will serve the airport in the future as well.

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar let's start with smaller things. You know, one thing that Toronto STILL doesn't have that is literally simple to do, is a time counter to next bus at any bus stops.

now that all buses, streetcars and subways have GPS enabled, this service will be rolled out in the next couple of years. they are doing a test run at dundas station for a couple months i think. although using this service on the subway seems kind of useless since headways are ~5min.

i know you're just ranting about your frustrations and that's fine. but maybe you should be sending off emails and such to people who run the system. you'll have a greater chance of getting some sort of result from them than from us.

quote:

Originally posted by Dr. DAS It actually makes me WANT to buy a car, and I sold mine when I moved here because I wanted to use transit.

Nah, driving a car in Toronto is a pain in the ass too (and expensive).

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar

we have counter type dealios in london. and the bus has a system that announces the next stop and "Stop Requested" lol.

quote:

Originally posted by smuncky really? i'll ask the names for 3 small villages in asia that compare to our bus system and the frequencies that they have, please.

My point was, our bus system's frequency is atrocious. I'd be actually interested to know that even small villages in Asia have better transit than we do .

quote:

i know you're just ranting about your frustrations and that's fine. but maybe you should be sending off emails and such to people who run the system. you'll have a greater chance of getting some sort of result from them than from us.

Im not trying to get any results here (and even sending an email to the TTC that will get lost in the infinite webs of bureaucracy is pointless either), but simply stating my frustrations in regards to the "wonderful" service that we get for $2.75 a ride. One more toll raise, and we should honestly consider boycotting the TTC!

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar My point was, our bus system's frequency is atrocious. I'd be actually interested to know that even small villages in Asia have better transit than we do .

the frequencies aren't that bad actually. most routes during rush hour are 10 min or less. the problems comes in the way (1)fares are collected, (2)transit priority, (3)bunching at terminal stations, (4)the way the ttc tries to run a schedule. that's just off the top of my head.

(1)if there was a POP (proof of purchase) system, it would speed up boarding via all doors without having the driver sit there and watch as people drop in their fare and give out transfers. an example close to home is viva.

(2)on routes like spadina or harbourfront, transit priority isn't enabled even though it's there. this is because of city transportation officials thinking about cars first. that's why many times you can be stuck at a light until all the cycles have gone through and only then is it the streetcars turn to go. buses can easily have transit priority sensors installed so the light changes to favor the bus. again, viva has this technology installed.

(3)+(4)these two points are connected because unfotuently, the ttc tries to run a schedule and not on headways. this means if a bus is late pulilng out of the station by 5 min. the bus behind can easily catch up to it causing 2 or 3 buses to arrive at a particular stop along the line.

so again, the it's how the system is run that is the problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Shankar but simply stating my frustrations in regards to the "wonderful" service that we get for $2.75 a ride. One more toll raise, and we should honestly consider boycotting the TTC!

i don't think anyone thinks that it's "wonderful". concerning the "boycotting"...good luck with that.

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