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Re: Re: Re: DJing Illegally?

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Originally posted by Storyteller That last sentence. How can you not be guilty if you can't prove you're innocent? Proving someone is guilty is easy when he or she is walking around with cdr's burnt full with music. That is illegal unless proven otherwise (receipts!) I save all promo emails I get, and all receipts.

the only reason that dj in europe got busted is because of the video's. playing videos gets you a lot of unwanted attention...

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Originally posted by DJ RANN DJ in Italy hit with biggest MP3 piracy fine in Europe February 16, 2005 An Italian DJ has been fined a record �1.4 million for using hundreds of pirate music files in a well-known local nightclub near Rome. The DJ was discovered with more than 2,000 mp3 music files suspected to be illegal downloads and 500 pirated video clips. The fine, set by the Italian Fiscal Police of Rieti (Rome), is the biggest fine to be imposed on an individual in Europe to date for the unlawful copying and use of copyrighted music in the mp3 format (the fine is subject to administrative recourse). The DJ may be subject to further criminal sanctions. Enzo Mazza, Director of the Italian recording industry association (FIMI), said: "We are pleased with the fine imposed by the Rieti Fiscal police. This DJ was touring clubs and making money out of the music he played - while those who had invested time, talent, hard work and money into creating the music in the first place did not get a cent. We hope this precedent will serve as a deterrent for those who are thinking of doing the same." The operation, targeting radio stations and clubs around the region, was led by the Fiscal Police. In addition to the mp3s and music video clips found, a large quantity of audiovisual material and software were also seized. Full story here: http://digital-lifestyles.info/2005...or-copied-mp3s/

"suspected illegal mp3's and PIRATED videos" they havent proven the mp3's were illegal but the videos WERE... it is not hard to prove that a video is pirated! most videos are never released to the common population and if you are a video dj, you have to watch it.. video dj's are the ones who have to be careful...

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Originally posted by chris harrington i seriously doubt there are any djs out there that have played only tracks they have payed for, especially with territory restrictions at beatport not letting us buy the tracks we want.

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Originally posted by Alex Fact is though, DJs aren't the ones that are going to get caught most of the time, because DJ's TEND to use pirating as a last resort (At least in my experience and the ones I know).

yup, agreed w/ the above.

chances are you'll never get caught. but by not purchasing your music you're only killing the scene thats not very strong to begin with... think about it, the only people that really pay for electronic music are djs, with them gone, 'record' (mp3) sales would plummet.
besides, getting paid to play other peoples music that you don't purchase and support is just not right...

Re: Re: DJing Illegally?

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Originally posted by discobiscuit so, YOU are thinking about djing w/ illegal mp3's and afraid YOU might get caught... very slim chance. like said earlier, if you're plaing unreleased dr dre tracks at the biggest clubs in the biggest cities in the united states, you might get caught...

No I am not thinking about Djing with illegal mp3's. I was just wondering how someone might be caught. The last thing I wanna do is get caught for something like that.

Oh and in the last couple of weeks I had read posts from people talking about people they know who play illegal tracks and the subject kind of interested me

well why can you only play specific songs in specific places?

Whiches rises me to another question...why does beatport do that?

'Territory Restrictions" thats happend to at least a dozen tracks i want.

quote:

Originally posted by chris harrington i seriously doubt there are any djs out there that have played only tracks they have payed for, especially with territory restrictions at beatport not letting us buy the tracks we want.

Mauro Picotto got busted/sued for a few mill due to illegal toons..

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Originally posted by chris harrington i seriously doubt there are any djs out there that have played only tracks they have payed for, especially with territory restrictions at beatport not letting us buy the tracks we want.

hell yeah!

i hate that!

beatport is the only place for now that i buy music from and i cant buy some good tunes like Beautiful (Extended Original), The Other Side (Deep Dish),etc.


I would happily buy my music but not EVERY tune i want is available for me so thats y i got to get the tune another way (illegal)

how do you watermark a tune?

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Originally posted by regulate how do you watermark a tune?

I dont think there is any real way, I mean you could always put like an audio clip over the song or something, but then it would taint the clip and DJ's wouldn't play it.

logging exact filesizes and sending them to a certain person only... if you find a mp3 on somewhere you know where it's from..

Include a username/email in the mp3... etc etc.

I thought of placing an abstract noise as an identifier. A lot of promos end up on file sharing programs etc. You could even do something like a recording of you saying your name or the person you're sending that track to and pitch it up until it's unrecognisable (so it sounds like a hihat or something). At least you'd be able to recognise it and when you applied the exact reverse fx, it would revert back to the identifier.

Wouldn't work on a mass scale but if you think someone is leaking your promos it's a good way to find out.

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Originally posted by regulate how do you watermark a tune?

Burn your WAV file to CD. Get a glass of water, then pour it over the CD.
Rip the CD back to WAV, then encode to your desired bit rate. Now your tune has a watermark on it.

when someone called DJ MickeyQ is playing "Tiesto - Burst The Bubble" weeks after Tiesto debuted it, its time to ask questions

unless you have some specific knowledge of what method of marking a label/company/shop uses, its highly unlikely you could even begin to spot any marking, let alone remove it

theirs countless ways of uniquely identifying an audio track

how could you develop software to scan for any markings? firstly you dont have a clue what to search for, secondly how do you distinguish an actual marking from part of the audio? how is the software able to determine if its a genuine perc or disguised marker?

totally new technology which hasnt been thoroughly documented or researched yet

I've just downloaded a tune illegaly.

I've been after this tune for years and never been able to find a vinyl copy (i even emailed the producer who couldn't help me) - it's a full and very decent sounding copy @ 192kbps - i've never played anything under 320 before out tho.

Anyone know if this will sound hugely different when mixing?

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Originally posted by chesco Anyone know if this will sound hugely different when mixing?

Wouldn't have thought so - try it and see!

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Originally posted by skip there is at least one! altho i've been thinking about burning myself an illegal copy of of "evanescence - say hello (gabriel & dresden vs. trifactor remix)" as it's one of my top 10 favorite tracks ever and i'll never get a legal copy of it.

there's a difference between illegal and unauthorized. the track in question wasn't authorized, so it's not illegal to have a copy of it. i may not even be illegal to play it, i'm not sure. if anyone was going to get in trouble (potentially) it would be Gabriel & Dresden, but it's not like they released a bootleg whitelabel and profited off it, so Evanescence and the label probably just looked at it like it was free publicity...

All Djs have played bootlegs or illegal mp3s at one point or the other but if your collection consists of only that then you should worry.

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Originally posted by DJMaytag there's a difference between illegal and unauthorized. the track in question wasn't authorized, so it's not illegal to have a copy of it.

That doesn't make sense. The song in question is (almost 100% of the time) exclusively licensed to a label and the creator is owner of the intellectual property. It is ALWAYS illegal as long as one of the original productions have been signed exclusively. And if it's not, you'd need to have permission of the original artists involved, otherwise there would be a copyright issue to deal with. (if something is your intellectual property you own the copyright).

Of course this is all from a more law&rights kind of view. In general virtually nobody gets caught for performing/sharing/dowloading material from illegal sources. But there is a reason why these bootlegs are mostly put out on untracable white-labels

Not sure if this has been stated before but, the only way you are going to get caught in the UK is if the Performance Licensing people turn up.
And believe me, they do from time to time it's not something thats so remote it will never happen. They will go through you CD wallet and you will have to produce evidence that you either own the vinyl or have purchased the MP3.
They don't like promos and hate whitelabel vinyl. They are some of the worst tossers out there and I probably to my disadvantage make my feelings known, especially recently they tried to imply that I was playing pirated music. The only problem was that I actually wrote the tune from start to finish. They even confiscated the CD in question. Needless to say it didn't go anywhere but they do themselves no favours by being total wank stains... sorry, I just hate those guys. Fucking music nazis... sorry guys for all the swearing, but I really feel that those guys are a waste of space. GAH!!!!

Keep your proof of purchase, don't let those ******s get the better of you because the penalties can be pretty hefty.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Not sure if this has been stated before but, the only way you are going to get caught in the UK is if the Performance Licensing people turn up. And believe me, they do from time to time it's not something thats so remote it will never happen. They will go through you CD wallet and you will have to produce evidence that you either own the vinyl or have purchased the MP3. They don't like promos and hate whitelabel vinyl. They are some of the worst tossers out there and I probably to my disadvantage make my feelings known, especially recently they tried to imply that I was playing pirated music. The only problem was that I actually wrote the tune from start to finish. They even confiscated the CD in question. Needless to say it didn't go anywhere but they do themselves no favours by being total wank stains... sorry, I just hate those guys. Fucking music nazis... sorry guys for all the swearing, but I really feel that those guys are a waste of space. GAH!!!! Keep your proof of purchase, don't let those ******s get the better of you because the penalties can be pretty hefty. Cheers Nem

Do we really have to bring our beatport reciepts from the beginning of time everywhere we go??

if they cant prove that they are illegal tracks how the hell can they take them of u? what is it guilty untill proven innocent? just smack him in the face and take them back.

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Originally posted by sleepydragon if they cant prove that they are illegal tracks how the hell can they take them of u? what is it guilty untill proven innocent? just smack him in the face and take them back.

Doesn't work like that in this case, as it is technically your responsibility.
It's like being stopped by the police for a driving offence, if you don't have your licence with you, you have a certain amount of time to present this at your nearest police station.
This differs slightly from the new digital DJ licence as you have to register the tracks you have with them.

Technically they have proven you guilty by using burnt CDs in the eyes of the law, it's up to you to hit them with your alibi so to speak.


Ministerio,
Nah, you don't have to take them with you, like above you will be given a certain amount of time to present them.
I do actually have a small folder with this information with me, but I do not provide them with any help to go through this, I just present it and tell them to get on with it, as I see them as the ones having the problem, not me. Only once have they ever seized some CDs and that was the time I was playing one of my own tracks. It hadn't been released at the time, and I took great pleaure in writing to them and basically declaring them to be incompetent fools, in addition I demanded a letter of apology from them but never recieved that.

I too am a firm believer in innocent till proven guilty, make no mistake, and I resent the treatment that I have had at the hands of these people. Although I have to be fair and say that some of them too have been pretty cool from time to time.
One of the clubs I had a residency at actually had difficulties with it's licence and as a reslut we had a few visits from them. And the biggest issue I have with them is the attitude that they present me with.

When my Dad had a pre club bar I also had experience with them. On this occassion they actually fabricated evidence. In the letter we got from them they claimed that their reps had heard music being played on a night that the bar was actually closed. I remember that they said that they had heard various tracks including All Saints-Pure Shores, Michael Jackson-Remember the Time and some other cack that's equally banal. What world are they living in? This was a preclub bar that used to be the pre venue for the 'Shrine' (Now Club New York) in Brighton. At the time the club was hosting, Dark Drum and Bass, Hip Hop and a Hard Dance Night which yours truly was one of the residents at. On what planet would you get those types of clubbers wanting to hear the fore mentioned acts? I also have a very good memory of what was being played at the bar because 1, I was responsible for managing the DJs, 2 I played there myself.

If someone from the PPL happens to be browsing, let it be known that I think your organisation is scum of the earth and has no interest in the representation of independant artists and only looks out for the insterests of the major labels and ultimately your own.

A lot of stuff we play is either white label or never sees official release, hence the artists never see the benefits of this organisation.

Sorry guys, rant over. Weird to see old Nem loose it like that but this is something that I feel strongly about.

Don't get me wrong, I hate music piracy, but I don't think this organisation does anything to tackle this and focuses it's efforts on the wrong group entirely.

Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaarrrrr!!!!

Nem

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