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Re: On Optimism

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Originally posted by shanny Optimism is a beautiful thing that gives you the ability to pull yourself away from any situation because, couldn�t it always be worse? And therefore don�t you have it pretty good? Have faith in goodness. It is the most genuine of all things. Whenever things appear to be going terribly wrong, whenever you are completely down on yourself, and thinking that things couldn�t be worse, stop for a minute and recognize that actually, yes, things can always be worse. Infinitely worse. They can also be infinitely better. These two thoughts actually work together. Things can always be worse. Realizing this gives you the ability to rationalize your placement, and understand that you don�t have it that bad. Then thinking that things can be better gives you the greatest gift of all. Hope. At no point do you have to stop having hope. Hope for all things better. This hope is what I call Optimism, and is what you can have fun being faithful to from now until infinity.

so true.

Excellent post Josh!
I really enjoyed reading through that.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst?

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Originally posted by EvilTree Hope for the best, prepare for the worst?

how i like to usualy live and think.

Hands down Shanny, this is the post of the year.

Its all too familiar where I find the general population just can't seem to have a "deep" conversation and whilst this thread didn't go too far... as I'm sure you had prepared for... I most definately thank you for your indepth thoughts.

Cheers

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Originally posted by |3 |_ @ Z 3 |) Its all too familiar where I find the general population just can't seem to have a "deep" conversation

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Originally posted by |3 |_ @ Z 3 |) Its all too familiar where I find the general population just can't seem to have a "deep" conversation

Then again, there seems to be no shortage of stoners who think that just about every question containing the words "why" or "really" is "deep". As in, "is there really a difference between Fudgesicles and flashlights? Why?".

Now this thread actually had a lot to say. The problem is, as Shanny pointed out right at the beginning, it's an essay, not a discussion question. Most deep discussions start off with small, open-ended or controversial questions or statements. In order to respond to this in a meaningful way I'd have to write an entire essay myself, one which I know will be read by few people if any.

I will play devil's advocate here and give my trite response for the sake of opening up a real debate here. Josh, there are certainly some good points here, but it's written largely in emotional language and makes heavy use of the Argumentum ad Consequentiam (Appeal to Consequences) fallacy. Believing this will result in a better life, so you should believe it. Imagine not being able to be hurt. That is all well and good, but is there any evidence that these are natural and inevitable consequences? You've certainly omitted some of the obvious disadvantages of perpetual optimism:

- Optimism is inseparable from trust. People are instinctively self-centered and at least some will take advantage of blind trust.

- Optimism is optimism about one's own abilities. It can - and will - lead a person to set false expectations with people who may be depending on him. This isn't about breaking promises, or making ones which can't be kept, but assuming the best in the face of uncertainty when the best outcome is rarely the actual one.

- Unrelenting optimism hurts a person's ability to learn from failures by making it more difficult to accept that a failure even occurred, much less quantify the consequences of one. If there's always an upside, why do things differently next time?

Then again, maybe it's all a moot point, since the main idea that this essay seemed to be driving at (especially near the end) was altruism, not optimism. I could say plenty about that, but that is another debate entirely.

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Originally posted by shanny I completely understand what you are saying and think that is valid. I should clarify that I don't think that me or anyone else is completely capable of actually doing this without living in that true state of constant meditation that is too unpractical to do and continue to live in the physical world. It is the idea of progressing on a journey with that as the goal that you have in mind and taking pleasure in the steps you take to get there trying to become more and more at that level the entire time.

Ok, with that I agree

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Everything starts with having a firm sense of self and the confidence to act like yourself under any circumstance. It is not to say that your sense of self is a stagnant thing that you must always be trying to be, it will be a continually evolving thing that is slightly abstract in nature but very genuine in feeling. Staying truthful to yourself allows the person to have supreme confidence in all of the decisions that they make. Many other ways of operating obsess far too much over others views about them, and whether those people like to admit it or not, to a certain extent their actions are being dictated by the people surrounding them. Staying truthful to yourself is a way of giving you the power to dictate your actions. Rather than be concerned with petty differences, accept the fact that people will have a problem with you sometimes. For Someone who is very concerned with things that you aren�t such as image or appearance it will be hard for them to accept that you do not give it more thought than you do. Some people will not like you. This is not a bad thing. Instead look on it as a sense of freedom, where you have been given the unbelievable ability to know exactly what to do in any possible scenario. Act only in accordance with what you believe to be truest to yourself and you can never go wrong. It is only when external things come in to play and begin changing the way that you operate that you truthfully get into trouble.

This is a concept that has helped me the transition from my childhood and teenage years into my "coming of age" years. From as far back as I can remember until about the age of 18, I was always extremely concerned with what other people thought of me. I was afraid to speak in social settings because I was afraid that what I was going to say was going to be laughed, or that I would be put down. I frequently second guessed myself, and I even aspired to act like popular people within my social surroundings. This strategy didn�t exactly bode well. I quickly realized that people act negatively towards those who act in such a way to please others, instead of being true to themselves.

One day, I asked myself why these other people who I was trying to act like were better than me, and why what they had to say was more important than what I had to say. I soon realized that what I was just as good as everyone else around me, if not better. This realization that I had is the most fundamental reason for the way I am today. When I finally started acting true to myself, I became a lot happier of a person.

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Instead treat it as a process, with that as the goal at the end of the road. Look at the way you live your life and see how much more enjoyable things can become when all of a sudden things aren�t capable of hurting you anymore. Imagine being able to go through some of the most tragic events of all time and feel no guilt or remorse what so ever because you were so caught up in the current moment. It gives you the ability to progress towards infinite happiness.

I�ve heard you elaborate on this more, and I understand the usefulness of this concept, but I think too much emphasis is being put on the present moment. From my understanding, you are saying that is better to live in the moment, than dwell on the past, or worry about the future. You are also saying that you should concentrate on the positive things in the present moment, and not dwell on negative things in the past or in the future. It seems that you are suggesting that this is a path to happiness.

Let me address each assertion separately. On the upside of �living in the moment�, you are doing something that many others in this day and age fail to do. When you�re in elementary school, you can�t wait to be in high school, when you�re in high school, you can�t wait to be in post-secondary, when you�re in post-secondary, you can�t wait to be in grad-school, when you�re in grad-school, you can�t wait to be done and find a job, when you�ve found the job, you can�t wait until you�ve saved up enough to buy a house, then you can�t wait to get married, then you can�t wait to have kids. Next thing you know, you�re 65. What now?

However, living too much in the moment has serious consequences and disadvantages. For one, I think there is a lot to be said in remembering the past, your history, where you came from, etc. Avoiding the past will cause you to make mistakes that others have already made that could have been easily avoided if you had just taken some time to learn about them. As for the future, if you ignore it and spend all your time enjoying the pleasantries of the present day, you could be unaware of impending trouble that could have been easily avoided if you planned ahead. Furthermore, you could improve �the present day� in the future if you plan for it. To conclude the response to the first assertion, I think the path to happiness lies in an equal emphasis put on each time frame: past, present and future.

As for the second assertion, I believe that concentrating only on the positive aspects of the present moment in order to avoid negative emotions associated with painful times in our lives is a dangerous strategy. Accepting bad times for what they are, and dealing with the negative emotions as they come will bode better than brushing those negative emotions under the carpet and thinking happy thoughts. One example is if you are unhappy with something in your life; perhaps a friendship or an intimate relationship. The other person might be doing things or saying things that are bothering you. I have found that it is much more effective to deal with the problems as they come. If you think happy thoughts and forget about what�s bothering you, whatever is bothering you will not go away, and will resurface in a much more significant way in the future. In the example of a problem with a friend or a girl/boyfriend, chances are that the conflicts you have been avoiding along the way are going to end up in one big cumulative argument that has relationship ending potential.

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How this relates to being able to let things slide is very simple. Time and time again there will be situations in which you can make a personal sacrifice to do a group of people a greater good. A split second example when it may take you swallowing some of your dignity to allow a collective group of people to be more comfortable in a situation. You should look at this as in your best interest too because even though it is you making the sacrifice you are advancing the interests of the group collectively to the maximum potential. Here you are doing a sort of cost benefits analysis similar to John Stuart Mill�s argument for Utility.

Although I agree with this, I think that conflict can still be maintained between two individuals, doing minimal harm to a group, so long as the two parties involved do everything they can to minimize discomfort the group might experience relating to the conflict at hand. While group coherence is important, standing up for yourself, and making people realize that they�ve wronged you when they clearly have is also very important.

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Optimism is a beautiful thing that gives you the ability to pull yourself away from any situation because, couldn�t it always be worse? And therefore don�t you have it pretty good? Have faith in goodness. It is the most genuine of all things. Whenever things appear to be going terribly wrong, whenever you are completely down on yourself, and thinking that things couldn�t be worse, stop for a minute and recognize that actually, yes, things can always be worse. Infinitely worse. They can also be infinitely better. These two thoughts actually work together. Things can always be worse. Realizing this gives you the ability to rationalize your placement, and understand that you don�t have it that bad. Then thinking that things can be better gives you the greatest gift of all. Hope. At no point do you have to stop having hope. Hope for all things better. This hope is what I call Optimism, and is what you can have fun being faithful to from now until infinity.

I really like this paragraph. Especially the part about knowing that things could always be worse, but also knowing that things could always be better. Whenever going through tough times, I have always thought that things could be worse, but I don�t usually think about how better things could be.

I know I�m disagreeing with a lot of what you�re saying, but as someone who is more often a pessimist than an optimist, you knew I would have a lot to say about this subject.

So in one concluding retort on the over-arching concept of optimism, and to optimists who accuse me that I complain too much, I will quote one of my friends who has also been afflicted with this unfair accusation, �Seeing the negative side in things is only pointing out the way that those things can be improved.� Although there are many people who are always negative, who don�t look at the positive side of things and are therefore unhappy, unhappiness is not a necessary condition for pointing out the negatives in a situation. Pointing out the negatives is only a path to a higher level of happiness than that of optimists who settle the mediocrity of the way things are.

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Originally posted by The Highroller

Stop procrastinating and go back to work, Graham

It was an interesting read though

Wow, I actually didn't think this post would end up going this route with some good an thoughtful arguments (hence my smart ass reply earlier). While I agree with some of what you have said I would say I disagree with it more.

I was going to write a long response with quotes like everyone else, however I just don't have the time and would actually rather discuss this in person over drinks sometime.


Thanks for the interesting read.

Events/things/situations exist on their own in a simple singularity.

The outcome or interpretation of the event/thing/situation is that of the filter of the individual. The filter creates a pretext that is not right nor wrong, negative nor positive, pessimistic nor optimistic - but something that simply frames the subject (the subject being the event/thing/situation).

Optimism is a tool that frames ones approach - it does not define the actual event or subject itself nor it does it provide a "truth" or "reason" to the reality surrounding the subject.

It is dangerous to use frames as a basis for beliefs or as evidence to support beliefs/outlooks as they paralyze (negative) and blind (positive) one from reality/actuality.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Josh, there are certainly some good points here, but it's written largely in emotional language and makes heavy use of the Argumentum ad Consequentiam (Appeal to Consequences) fallacy. Believing this will result in a better life, so you should believe it. Imagine not being able to be hurt. That is all well and good, but is there any evidence that these are natural and inevitable consequences?

One of the things that has lead me to this declaration of what I believe in was coming to the understanding that every single person I knew lived their lives by different principles. This is what causes couples in relationships to continuously fight over the same things over and over again. Often times when it comes down to two people having the very principles that they live their lives by conflict with one another it results in a necessary "agree to disagree" situation. That is because one person is almost incapable of understanding the other, because the way they have designed the strategy that they live their life by makes them blind to what the other is saying.

Having said that, I am an emotional person, and if I'm going to attempt to write down the philosophy by which I live my life you had better believe that it is going to be in an emotional language.

I also realize that not everyone is this way. It is often times something that even close friends of mine have problems with or want to warn me about when we are talking with one another.

Something that is interesting about philosophical arguments is that for most people the different philosophical theories (ultitarianism, deontology, existentialism,etc) in themselves are not complete. It often times is most beneficial for people to take seperate elements of each theory and put them together to make their own theory.

I took seperate elements of a variety of different things to put together my Optimism theory, and realistically I don't expect anyone to accept all parts of it. But never the less that is how I live my life, and I think that there are lots of people who would benefit from reading it, even if there is but one aspect of it that they take and apply for their life.

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Originally posted by DigiNut You've certainly omitted some of the obvious disadvantages of perpetual optimism: - Optimism is inseparable from trust. People are instinctively self-centered and at least some will take advantage of blind trust.

I agree with this. I am a trusting person, I see its advantages and disadvantages. I give people the benefit of the doubt, and don't take that away until I see a reason to take it away. It certainly has burned me in the past. I've been deceived and I've been hurt because of it. In my optimism theory I didn't say that I had completely achieved everything that was in my essay, but it is all something that I am aspiring to do. For everytime that I have been hurt, it has been my optimistic attitude that has made me feel better that much quicker. And for each time I gave someone my trust, it has enabled me to establish more of a bond with that person, where as an untrusting person would be more unlikely to be able to make that claim. Here I look at the argument for utility, and argue that in this aspect in particular, optimism has brought more good into my life than harm. It has worked for me, and that's what I wanted to share with people. It might not work for you, but I think it would.

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Originally posted by DigiNut - Optimism is optimism about one's own abilities. It can - and will - lead a person to set false expectations with people who may be depending on him. This isn't about breaking promises, or making ones which can't be kept, but assuming the best in the face of uncertainty when the best outcome is rarely the actual one. - Unrelenting optimism hurts a person's ability to learn from failures by making it more difficult to accept that a failure even occurred, much less quantify the consequences of one. If there's always an upside, why do things differently next time?

These are both good points, and I would counter the first with, even if the outcome isn't the exact one you thought it would be, it more often than not is having confidence in yourself that enables the best outcome to occur. Optimism and confidence go hand in hand, just like optimism and trust do.

To the second point I return to the process argument of my theory. I don't think it is totally possible for anyone to truthfully achieve the complete "living in the moment" state that I had discussed. The idea behind it being a process was that even when you realize things have gone wrong you have the ability to recognize that it could have gone worse, and can get better, and turn the situation into the best situation possible.

Aaron, all of your points are completely valid, and I don't really expect you to accept the counter-arguments that I have made, for the same reason that you didn't accept my initial argument. I truthfully believe that this philosophy is the best one to live your life by, just as I'm sure you truthfully believe your life philosophy is the ideal way to go. Discussing it with one another can lead to nothing but an improvement for anyone interested in reading it though, and that is more valuable than anything.

Heh, you remind me of myself.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker Optimism is a tool that frames ones approach - it does not define the actual event or subject itself nor it does it provide a "truth" or "reason" to the reality surrounding the subject. It is dangerous to use frames as a basis for beliefs or as evidence to support beliefs/outlooks as they paralyze (negative) and blind (positive) one from reality/actuality.

This assumes that there is an "objective" reality that actually exists. I've yet to see anything that proves that such a thing is out there. Because of this, who's to say that the way I see something is more or less right than the way you do? Or vice-versa?

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Originally posted by musicsnob_NOT Wow, I actually didn't think this post would end up going this route with some good an thoughtful arguments (hence my smart ass reply earlier). While I agree with some of what you have said I would say I disagree with it more. I was going to write a long response with quotes like everyone else, however I just don't have the time and would actually rather discuss this in person over drinks sometime. Thanks for the interesting read.

I am happy to see that it turned into a real discussion, I didn't expect it to at all, and thought that most people wouldn't take the time to read it, since as has been pointed out it was painfully long.

It was something I felt passionate about and wanted to discuss in a complete way, which is why I wrote that long of an original post.

I would be more than happy to discuss it with you or anyone over drinks, this is obviously something I think is important and welcome objections from anyone who has them, whether it be on this forum or any other method.

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Originally posted by shanny This assumes that there is an "objective" reality that actually exists.

I think you missed my point.

Events occur, period. Subjects exist, on their own. Specific reality only exists because one frames it as such. True objectivity is the lack of a frame (optimism in this case).

Optimism isn't right, nor is it wrong - it's simply a way of approaching (framing) a subject. Optimism (or any frame) is not objective - it is specific.

Framing is dangerous as it doesn't provide true representation/approximation of a subject.

Being a pessimist and saying that everything is/will go wrong is just as dangerous as being an optimist and believing that everything is/will be ok. Paralysis is just as dangerous as being blind.

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Originally posted by shanny Not only yellow auras and puddles but also a distinct "coolness" vibe, only seen before near John Travolta in his early years. Such as during his strut following the movie Stayin Alive.

John Travolta had zero mojo in his sequel "Staying Alive", however, in the first movie "Saturday Night Fever" his strut really was BADASS!!!

Good read, refreshing to see this sort of thing here. Printed it out, and have read it about 8 times. In general it is quite logical, well written; I think he could/should expand on it further. He leaves alot to be assumed.

...I guess I am the target market if I find his semi-socipathic take on "others" (and them liking you or not) as somewhat overly optimistic and not always possible.

Anyways nevertheless thank you for the good read.

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Originally posted by Engine9 see the cheese not the holes /end thread

swiss cheese is such a fucking rip off...

same with Aero Chocolates...

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Originally posted by The Highroller I�ve heard you elaborate on this more, and I understand the usefulness of this concept, but I think too much emphasis is being put on the present moment. From my understanding, you are saying that is better to live in the moment, than dwell on the past, or worry about the future. You are also saying that you should concentrate on the positive things in the present moment, and not dwell on negative things in the past or in the future. It seems that you are suggesting that this is a path to happiness.

Certain parts of what I am saying are difficult to grasp. Some of it is my fault. When I was writing this declaration, I was in a moment of clarity and wanted to write down a complete version of my thoughts. Because of that I didn't want to stop as I was writing it out of the interest of not losing what it was I was trying to explain.
The clarity may have suffered at times because of it.

In reference to living in the moment. Something that I discuss in the essay is the idea that the idea of living so completely in the moment that nothing matters is perfect in theory, but not in reality, because it would result in you starving to death. Because of that I am arguing that you should aspire to be able to reach that state, even though you recognize no one could truely do it. You need to continually try to get there. If you start 10 feet from the wall and move half way to the wall every 30 seconds when will you get to the wall? Never, but you will keep getting closer and closer. That is what this is like, you are continuing to try to achieve that while still living in the world where it is necessary for you to be impacted by the things that are happening to you.

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Originally posted by The Highroller Let me address each assertion separately. On the upside of �living in the moment�, you are doing something that many others in this day and age fail to do. When you�re in elementary school, you can�t wait to be in high school, when you�re in high school, you can�t wait to be in post-secondary, when you�re in post-secondary, you can�t wait to be in grad-school, when you�re in grad-school, you can�t wait to be done and find a job, when you�ve found the job, you can�t wait until you�ve saved up enough to buy a house, then you can�t wait to get married, then you can�t wait to have kids. Next thing you know, you�re 65. What now? However, living too much in the moment has serious consequences and disadvantages. For one, I think there is a lot to be said in remembering the past, your history, where you came from, etc. Avoiding the past will cause you to make mistakes that others have already made that could have been easily avoided if you had just taken some time to learn about them. As for the future, if you ignore it and spend all your time enjoying the pleasantries of the present day, you could be unaware of impending trouble that could have been easily avoided if you planned ahead. Furthermore, you could improve �the present day� in the future if you plan for it. To conclude the response to the first assertion, I think the path to happiness lies in an equal emphasis put on each time frame: past, present and future.

Keeping in mind what I've said about it being impossible to live completely in the moment, and that it is a progress to do that as much as possible, the reverse side of that is that it is also necessary that you do live in the past at some point. This optimism theory is a mix of what would work in a strictly theoretical world, and of how to use that information in the actual world. Learning from your mistakes is certainly a good idea, and should be done. But it also opens you up to dwelling on the events of the past and "crying over spilled milk" which is something you want to avoid. I am arguing that you should try to keep in mind that living in the present is your end goal, and when you get into a situation when you find yourself obsessing over things in the past, remember what you should be doing it and use it as a motivation to forget what it is that you are dwelling about.

In that sense I am agreeing with you, there is a mix of past, present and future, but it is when the past becomes problematic (eg. "I wish that wouldn't have happened to me") that you need to focus on the present.

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Originally posted by The Highroller As for the second assertion, I believe that concentrating only on the positive aspects of the present moment in order to avoid negative emotions associated with painful times in our lives is a dangerous strategy. Accepting bad times for what they are, and dealing with the negative emotions as they come will bode better than brushing those negative emotions under the carpet and thinking happy thoughts. One example is if you are unhappy with something in your life; perhaps a friendship or an intimate relationship. The other person might be doing things or saying things that are bothering you. I have found that it is much more effective to deal with the problems as they come. If you think happy thoughts and forget about what�s bothering you, whatever is bothering you will not go away, and will resurface in a much more significant way in the future. In the example of a problem with a friend or a girl/boyfriend, chances are that the conflicts you have been avoiding along the way are going to end up in one big cumulative argument that has relationship ending potential.

I think in some part, what I was originally saying is being misinterpreted. I was not saying that you need to ignore the negative aspects of life, but that when a situation presents itself you have the ability to have hope in a positive outcome. This could be after you have had complete realization of all of the negative aspects. A bad situation occurs such as the loss of a loved one, you recognize everything and come up with the thought that you cannot go on. Or you recognize that it will get better, it's ok, it's always ok, and with that confidence begin to move forward progressing in your life maximizing happiness.

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Originally posted by The Highroller So in one concluding retort on the over-arching concept of optimism, and to optimists who accuse me that I complain too much, I will quote one of my friends who has also been afflicted with this unfair accusation, �Seeing the negative side in things is only pointing out the way that those things can be improved.� Although there are many people who are always negative, who don�t look at the positive side of things and are therefore unhappy, unhappiness is not a necessary condition for pointing out the negatives in a situation. Pointing out the negatives is only a path to a higher level of happiness than that of optimists who settle the mediocrity of the way things are.

I like the idea that pessimism points out things that need to be pointed out to make things better. I do think that we aren't exactly on the same page about what it is that I mean by optimism in reference to this thing specifically. I do not think that you should interpret a bad situation as that it is actually not bad, but instead, when you recognize that something bad has happened, have faith that it will get better. That is what I mean by optimistic, and it is that hope that I think is the true benefit of optimism.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker I think you missed my point. Events occur, period. Subjects exist, on their own. Specific reality only exists because one frames it as such. True objectivity is the lack of a frame (optimism in this case). Optimism isn't right, nor is it wrong - it's simply a way of approaching (framing) a subject. Optimism (or any frame) is not objective - it is specific. Framing is dangerous as it doesn't provide true representation/approximation of a subject. Being a pessimist and saying that everything is/will go wrong is just as dangerous as being an optimist and believing that everything is/will be ok. Paralysis is just as dangerous as being blind.

Events may exist objectively, but it is impossible for someone to experience it without bringing their own subjective world into the picture.

As an example:

Event: World Trade Centre Falling

Experience One (from small child of firefighter who lost life):
World Train Centre falls and it kills my father, which is making me feel terrible

Experience Two (from terrorist aboard one of airplanes): World Trade Centre falls and it is a tremendous success, months of planning have paid off

This is an extreme example I know, but the point I am getting at is that while there may be some truth to the statement "events happen period", it is impossible to separate the event from your experience of the event.

I am arguing that having an optimistic outlook will allow you to make your experiences the most enjoyable that they can be.

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Originally posted by shanny Experience One (from small child of firefighter who lost life): World Train Centre falls and it kills my father, which is making me feel terrible I am arguing that having an optimistic outlook will allow you to make your experiences the most enjoyable that they can be.

So you would say that being "optimistic" would make the loss of one's father the most enjoyable it could be...

Interesting to say the least. Optimism at it's best you'd suppose.

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Originally posted by rabbitjoker So you would say that being "optimistic" would make the loss of one's father the most enjoyable it could be... Interesting to say the least. Optimism at it's best you'd suppose.

The loss of a loved one is a bad experience, but it could be varying degrees of bad. As enjoyable as it may be, it is still unenjoyable. I am just arguing that in the varying degrees of "badness" having an optimistic attitude that "things will get better" will enable you to make the best of the situation.

I've tried to avoid situational specifics in my replies - because I believe that theories/ideologies should transcend specific events and outcomes...

But with your WTC example - you've provided a specific, so let me counter with a less-specific one of my own that we might be able to build your system upon:

The pessimist says: The outcome is highly unlikely to be possible. Almost no matter what happens the end result will be negative, uncomfortable, akin to failure. Effort and exertion will likely not matter because influencing the outcome is near impossible (the outcome will not be positive).

The optimist says: The outcome is highly likely and will probably be possible. Odds are in my favor that the outcome will be positive, rewarding, a win. Effort and exertion matter - but the outcome will probably be in my favor or be possible as a matter of approach (the outcome will be positive as a matter of expectation).

So the danger that I speak of is as such: once the objectivity of a subject is lost - the pessimistic or optimistic influence immediately influences ones input into the outcome.

The pessimist decides that their influence can't effectively impact external factors and the optimist believes that their (perceived) influence has already effectively impacted external factors (by the mere optimistic approach/attitude).

Objectivism, or, realizing that things "just are" and then accepting that one has a true internal locus of control impacts outcomes far beyond a pessimistic or optimistic frame.

Positive/optimistic thinking is a valuable emotional tool to keep spirits high and hope for the best. HOWEVER (and it is a BIG however) it often results in under-action/under-responsibility/under-decisiveness when it matters most.

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