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Originally posted by Taranis Harry Potter isn't amazing writing,

you got that right. the first book (the only one i bothered to read) was basically written in crayon.

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Originally posted by Taranis but it tells a good story, and it's still way above Dragonlance on the literary ladder.

like fuck it is.

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Originally posted by Taranis I read it because it tells an interesting story, and because I've been hooked on the series since I was a kid and want to know how it ends.

exactly.

ultimately, im just really surprised that someone so rabid in their criticism of DL for "poor writing" or "cliches" etc would be a harry potter fan! you're living in an awfully glass house to be throwing such stones.

pkc, the HP books may use simplistic writing style, but the are very well written, and even better thought out.

However what makes them such a good read is their complete originality, which is probably the hardest thing to achieve in this day and age.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog pkc, the HP books may use simplistic writing style, but the are very well written, and even better thought out.

whats the difference between "writing style" and being "well written"? either way, that first book reads like a student's rough draft. absolutely terrible.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog However what makes them such a good read is their complete originality,

yeah, witches riding broomsticks. never heard of that before.

it might be fine for people with the reading age of about 5, but its a blight on the entire scifi/fantasy genre.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you got that right. the first book (the only one i bothered to read) was basically written in crayon.

Yeah the first book is kind of childish, but it was basically written as a childrens novel. The series progresses a lot as you move through it to deal with much more darker and mature themes, growing with the reader (in the case of myself and many people of my age who started the series as a child and grew up with it, which is part of the draw).

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like fuck it is.

There's a reason JK Rowling is a billionaire and Weis and Hickman are virtually unknown outside their small group of D&D novel reading rabid fans.

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exactly.

Hey I can understand being attached to something because you liked it as a child. I have a ton of books that are incredibly mediocre by any standard, but I keep them and even read them over occasionally because of the sentimental value those stories have.

The difference is that you let your attachment to Dragonlance blind you into thinking it is either a) good writing, or b) good storytelling, when it fails rather horribly on both accounts.

I mean sure, you can like something even though it's cheesy and unoriginal and 'bad', some of the music on my MP3 speaks for that, but don't let the enjoyment of that thing fool you into thinking it's complex or original or 'good.'

Really, this discussion isn't worth much, because you haven't even read more than 1/6 of the series (which is actually much less if you're going to measure in total content, and not in book numbers). Your opinion on the matter of HP is pretty much invalid.

dude dragonlance fucks harry in his hairy ass on the literary ladder. the fact that the language in DL is written for an adult audience with adult themes like philosophy/sex/human instinct discussed in all facets is enough to make harry potter look exactly what it is - a motherfucking wizard book for 12 yr olds.

you can't compare the two because they're on a completely different scale as audience. there are enough brainless 12 yr olds to go check out harry potter. much less mature-minded individuals to support an amazing classic like dragonlance. but audience doesn't mean superiority. next thing you'll be telling me that spiderman was a better movie than Forrest Gump because it sold more in theatres?

rofl my gf's dressing up as a wizard for the release tonight
lawl dork
kinda looks hot though

-mezz

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Originally posted by Aristronica dude dragonlance fucks harry in his hairy ass on the literary ladder. the fact that the language in DL is written for an adult audience with adult themes like philosophy/sex/human instinct discussed in all facets is enough to make harry potter look exactly what it is - a motherfucking wizard book for 12 yr olds. you can't compare the two because they're on a completely different scale as audience. there are enough brainless 12 yr olds to go check out harry potter. much less mature-minded individuals to support an amazing classic like dragonlance. but audience doesn't mean superiority. next thing you'll be telling me that spiderman was a better movie than Forrest Gump because it sold more in theatres?

thanks for that! you saved me a lot of typing couldnt agree more.

quote:

Originally posted by Aristronica dude dragonlance fucks harry in his hairy ass on the literary ladder. the fact that the language in DL is written for an adult audience with adult themes like philosophy/sex/human instinct discussed in all facets is enough to make harry potter look exactly what it is - a motherfucking wizard book for 12 yr olds. you can't compare the two because they're on a completely different scale as audience. there are enough brainless 12 yr olds to go check out harry potter. much less mature-minded individuals to support an amazing classic like dragonlance. but audience doesn't mean superiority. next thing you'll be telling me that spiderman was a better movie than Forrest Gump because it sold more in theatres?

The fact that you just compared Dragonlance to Forest Gump makes my brain hurt

bla bla bla, is that girl dating anyone and is she coming to San Diego soon?
right now i'm 0-2 with celebrities (Hilary Duff smiled at me, but didn't respond to me at her FYE signing and Avril Lavigne didn't even look me in the eye)

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Originally posted by Taranis The fact that you just compared Dragonlance to Forest Gump makes my brain hurt

ditto for the "harry is better than dragonlance" argument.

Did someone say jk rowling was original?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/1224264.stm

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN whats the difference between "writing style" and being "well written"? either way, that first book reads like a student's rough draft. absolutely terrible.

Well, the fact that you don't know the difference between "simple writing" and "well written" degrades your opinion on literary work in my eyes. Sorry.

It's just like anything, there's a simple or complex way to achieve a task, but either way can have a good or bad result. Rowling's writing is simple, yet very effective.

What I basically mean is that although she doesn't use big, complex words, her sentence structure and flow of ideas is supreme. In particular her character development is good. There are a lot of characters, yet she establishes each one as having a distinct personality, and makes them all memorable, which is more than I can say for many adult books I have read.

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yeah, witches riding broomsticks. never heard of that before. it might be fine for people with the reading age of about 5, but its a blight on the entire scifi/fantasy genre.

Well, if you're going to go by that criteria, every fantasy novel since Lord Of The Rings is an unoriginal piece of shit because it uses Elves, Magicians, Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Dragons etc etc.

While Harry Potter may use an un-original concept as its basis, the STORY (not the setting) is extremely original. The way all the spells have been made-up, and the hogwarts castle with moving portraits etc, are all original and interesting ideas.

p.s not saying HP is better than Dragonlance, because I haven't read it. Only that HP is good.

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Originally posted by SuspicionVandit bla bla bla, is that girl dating anyone and is she coming to San Diego soon? right now i'm 0-2 with celebrities (Hilary Duff smiled at me, but didn't respond to me at her FYE signing and Avril Lavigne didn't even look me in the eye)

I REMEMBER THAT!!

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Originally posted by Beat Blog Well, the fact that you don't know the difference between "simple writing" and "well written" degrades your opinion on literary work in my eyes. Sorry.

i said i wanted to know the difference between having a good writing style and writing well actually. to me they are one and the same. so, im sorry.

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Originally posted by Beat Blog What I basically mean is that although she doesn't use big, complex words, her sentence structure and flow of ideas is supreme.

not sure i've read anything more unbelievably wrong in a long, long time. her first book reads like it was written by a creative writing student. who was failing. the sentence structure and the flow are truly amateurish. i was offended. the fact it is for kids is why it got through the editors. no serious fantasy publishers would tolerate such poor writing.

no, i dont know what the other books are like. but i am not a glutton for punishment.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Well, if you're going to go by that criteria, every fantasy novel since Lord Of The Rings is an unoriginal piece of shit because it uses Elves, Magicians, Orcs, Trolls, Giants, Dragons etc etc. While Harry Potter may use an un-original concept as its basis, the STORY (not the setting) is extremely original. The way all the spells have been made-up, and the hogwarts castle with moving portraits etc, are all original and interesting ideas.

my criticisms are more related to comments Taranis made in my dragonlance thread. of course fantasy is derivative, though Taranis failed to realise a lot of these so-called "cliches" were made cliches by the brilliance of the dragonlance fantasy world. anywayz, i digress...

i have no problems with "staple" fantasy themes.

im just quite amused taranis would criticise DL so harshly for its supposed cliches and poorly written prose, when its 30 odd years old and above and beyond potter in both contexts!

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN im just quite amused taranis would criticise DL so harshly for its supposed cliches and poorly written prose, when its 30 odd years old and above and beyond potter in both contexts!

word.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i said i wanted to know the difference between having a good writing style and writing well actually. to me they are one and the same. so, im sorry.

Ok, the difference between "writing style" and "writing well", is that writing style can be, for example, simple or complex, whereas "writing well" relates to the quality of the writing, regardless of the method used.

My point is that just because something's simple doesn't make it bad.

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not sure i've read anything more unbelievably wrong in a long, long time. her first book reads like it was written by a creative writing student. who was failing. the sentence structure and the flow are truly amateurish. i was offended. the fact it is for kids is why it got through the editors. no serious fantasy publishers would tolerate such poor writing.

Yes, it is for children, and that's why you probably think it sucks. However, for a children's book, it's miles and miles ahead of the competition. It manages to achieve with simple language and ideas what many adults books can't achieve with their complexities and advanced vocabulary.

However, I can see that we simply disagree on this, and that there's no point in arguing. I might check out Dragonlance and see if it's any good.

p.s Magician still pwns all.

quote:

Originally posted by Beat Blog Is Emma Watson 18 yet?

nope, she's 17, but that's legal in the UK

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Originally posted by TheWhiteQueen rofl my gf's dressing up as a wizard for the release tonight lawl dork kinda looks hot though -mezz

pics pls.

Best movie I have seen this year! Im so glad they took my favorite book of the series making it as good as it should have been. The whole movie was great and did a great job of sticking to the book. Although they missed out alot on telling the importance of Professor Trelawny.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN i said i wanted to know the difference between having a good writing style and writing well actually. to me they are one and the same. so, im sorry. not sure i've read anything more unbelievably wrong in a long, long time. her first book reads like it was written by a creative writing student. who was failing. the sentence structure and the flow are truly amateurish. i was offended. the fact it is for kids is why it got through the editors. no serious fantasy publishers would tolerate such poor writing. no, i dont know what the other books are like. but i am not a glutton for punishment. my criticisms are more related to comments Taranis made in my dragonlance thread. of course fantasy is derivative, though Taranis failed to realise a lot of these so-called "cliches" were made cliches by the brilliance of the dragonlance fantasy world. anywayz, i digress... i have no problems with "staple" fantasy themes. im just quite amused taranis would criticise DL so harshly for its supposed cliches and poorly written prose, when its 30 odd years old and above and beyond potter in both contexts!

Read the rest of the books. Do not judge a series based on one book. I would love to see someone summarize all of DL based on one book. and no that is not an invitation!

Honestly the first book was brain candy, it was the rest of the story that got me hooked. The development and maturation of these characters is amazing. You can see these "kids" growing up before your eyes. It does handle adult themes and situations.

::sigh:: i hate having this discussion. just try and read the rest of the books, you may change your mind you may not. i am guessing your opinion will be slightly less vitriolic.

Lol pk is beyond any human help in ever changing his opinion, your better off not wasting your time.

it's hp 5 :P

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Originally posted by trunks1022 it's hp 5 :P

lolz ya i was about to say that but whatever I wanna go see it again tonight

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Originally posted by washout pics pls.

i have none

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Originally posted by chach lolz ya i was about to say that but whatever I wanna go see it again tonight

what did you think of the movie?

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