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I totally feel you on this. Sometimes you play a track and you recognize part of it in another track and you go "wow I really need ot mix that one next". It's true sometimes it doesn't work and it doesn't come to me all the time, but more often than not it works out well.

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Originally posted by nefardec the best track-track mixes i've ever done have always been those where i am just getting into the track that's currently playing and suddenly in my mind's ear i 'hear' another sound and then when i catch that sound in my head i think "where did that come from" and then i realize it's part of another track and then the more I think of it the better it will sound. even before 'key matching', i would stress 'sound matching' or 'tone matching', where you're mixing tracks with similar tonal, sonic, and rhythmic concepts. the key is just sort of a basic metric that doesn't tell you much about anything. just because two songs are in related keys doesn't mean anything Problem is this sort of creative flash doesn't come ALL the time, and sometimes the intuition is just wrong, so when you have your tracks keyed it gives you an affirmation of what you already knew

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Originally posted by nefardec the best track-track mixes i've ever done have always been those where i am just getting into the track that's currently playing and suddenly in my mind's ear i 'hear' another sound and then when i catch that sound in my head i think "where did that come from" and then i realize it's part of another track and then the more I think of it the better it will sound.

I get that but because when I remember songs I never remember them in the right key they're rarely in the same key as the track I think they'd fit with!

I have no absolute/perfect pitch ability whatsoever although my relative pitch isn't too bad - play me a note and as far as I'm concerned it could be any note on the keyboard whatsoever, but play me another note and I can usually tell you the interval between them without any trouble at all.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN um, which is why we write the key on our tracks perhaps?? "doing your research" does not equate with using ripoff software like mixed in key. my ears are cheaper and far more accurate.

Sure, but where do you see me advocating using mixed in key? I don't think it's any good. RE2 is the way to go. The time saved in automation makes it far superior to some kind of old-fashioned system involving a notebook at a keyboard. Not only that, but there are collaborative possibilities that I suspect most people don't even consider.

I find that proper harmonic mixing necessitates having lots of options. Simply because a track seems compatible (complimentary key and close in tempo) doesn't mean it is going to blend--the production quality, energy level, style, or some other factor could cause an issue. Additionally, I play many styles of psytrance and progressive in different sets. As a result, I need a lot of tracks keyed and analyzed. Currently my database has about 10,000 tracks (incidentally, with RE2 all of this data is publicly accessible through the shared server).

RE2 is smartly designed. I use it to automatically analyze the keys of tracks that I import into the database. Questions of accuracy have always plagued harmonic mixing software. You will read, in different places, all sorts of different results. In my experience, RE2 is 80%+ accurate. Last year some friends and I ran our own tests using a variety of psytrance releases old and new. We keyed by ear and also automated the process to find out just how accurate RE2 could be. On the average 9 track album, only one would typically have been analyzed improperly. In those instances, the "key accuracy" field usually had a low rating, so even the program knew something was up. Knowing this, one can run through and manually key tracks with low accuracy counts to improve the quality of the database. In most cases where the key was analyzed wrong, the song featured one or more key changes. RE2 is only set to uncover one key at this stage in its development, but there is an option to specify an ending key as well as the starting key. In these cases, it's just a matter of busting out the internal piano and doing some verification. I do some of that anyway, simply to increase the accuracy of the information in the database. This is what I mean by smart design: the automated analysis is good to begin with, and the program also provides for manual verification and easy updating.

Years ago I used to keep notebooks and slips of paper around my decks to mark down when a mix really worked out. Now I just use the mix-out feature in RE2 to record a connection between tracks in the database. Any time I practise or get into composing a mix I end up making what feels like real progress. When I find songs that are simply made for each other, not only do I record this in my RE2 database, but (this is the cool part) anyone else with those same songs can access my notes. What we're looking at here is open source DJing--collaborative networking of information that anyone can benefit from... as far as I'm concerned, it's brilliant. Too bad it is so poorly understood. But I like the idea that all my practise sessions go on record now. Whatever information I find--whatever networks I create--that data is saved. The informational complexity of the universe increases.

So, if you want to stick with a piano and a notebook and sort things out the hard way, be my guest. As for me, I'm going to continue to explore what the future has to offer.

BAM! lol good post

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Originally posted by basilisk So, if you want to stick with a piano and a notebook and sort things out the hard way, be my guest. As for me, I'm going to continue to explore what the future has to offer.

10 seconds with a keyboard hardly qualifies as "the hard way" plus, i mix exclusively with vinyl so importing tracks into any program is actually a whole lot harder. but, that system you have does sound pretty damn cool!

^ sounds like its time to embrace new technology

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Originally posted by starboy ^ sounds like its time to embrace new technology

lol. i have a mortgage, car repayments, a massive credit card bill. cant afford the CDJs just yet plus, vinyl rocks

RE2 is designed to make entries for vinyl records. You can key the tracks yourself and record an entry, or simply analyze an MP3 recording. Like I said, it's a smart piece of software

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol. i have a mortgage, car repayments, a massive credit card bill. cant afford the CDJs just yet plus, vinyl rocks

i know how it is

I think you guys crap on mixed in key way too much, for wankers like us that buy (or steal) dozens of tracks every week, its a very good tool to organize your collection with, to pre-test mixes and get yourself in the right direction!

I agree it isnt THAT accurate, but it always gives me a general idea and points me in the right direction of picking the tunes I want to play and shortens the search of finding a track that works with another, of course it all boils down to whether or not those two tracks work together, but Mixed in key is accurate enough to lay out my options for me, at which point I can go and listen to them more carefully and figure out what works BEST with what.

By no means does this program provide "flawless" harmonic mixing or anything, but it has it's uses, and they help me a lot when I'm getting to know my new tunes.

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Originally posted by Alex Mixed in key is accurate enough to lay out my options for me...

i downloaded the free trial of mixed in key just to try it out, i uploaded about 20 songs to which i knew the keys of.. every single one of them was wrong no joke 20 tracks...

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN lol. i have a mortgage, car repayments, a massive credit card bill.

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Originally posted by starboy i know how it is

+ 2 kids

...and an expensive mistress

Sorry guys,

But software is not the be all and end all solution at the moment. Sure it's getting better but I still don't feel that you can fault sitting down with an instrument and a marker pen.

I can key a track in the time it takes me to pick up a guitar and play a scale, then the real magic comes in... I write the key on the CD or the Vinyl.

Incidentally I also enjoy picking out the scale that the melody incorporates although this isn't necessary. And this is something that music software can not do on any level at the moment.

I have tried the music software on my own productions (Mixmiester being one of them) and it couldn't get the key right on those, and I'm pretty sure about the key they go in.

Contrary to what some say in the thread I can actually here the key of quite a few tracks before I sit down with an instrument. It comes with practice and writing music. I have to be honest and say that I can't get all keys.

This thread has also moved into the realm of music memory which is another thing that some people have and some people do not. It is possible for some people to compare tracks in the head, for picking out A minor I usually compare things to Scott Mac - Damager 02.

But as Stu says, a lot of people don't always remember tracks in the right key. It's not the same thing as perfect pitch though.

Simple answer to all this is do what feels best for you, and ffs stop trying to tell people that one way is better than the other. If one of you rocks the dancefloor better than me and you are using mixmiester, who the hell am I to tell you not to use it?

Oh, and I'm afraid the sheild will be fully operational when your friends arive... Errr...

Cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 I'm afraid the deflector sheild will be quite operational when your friends arive... Errr... Cheers Nem

fixed

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Originally posted by starboy i downloaded the free trial of mixed in key just to try it out, i uploaded about 20 songs to which i knew the keys of.. every single one of them was wrong no joke 20 tracks...

I think you must have had a truly wonky version, I also have the trial and it helps me out a lot.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN fixed

Your tears gypsy... give them to me or I will take them from you!!

Nem

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Originally posted by Alex I think you must have had a truly wonky version, I also have the trial and it helps me out a lot.

+1

i tested out starboys theory last night with 10 tracks and a keyboard....it got 9 out of 10 right and that last one was minimal so yeah...hard for those ones lol.

must be the free trial version, what i thought was really weird was that almost half of them were B's.. not likely

I can't understand why someone would want to try so hard to avoid the knowledge that comes from learning your scales and basic theory and on top of that training your ear to hear what the keys sound like rather than just having a program (half of the time) tell you what key its in.

Besides, when mixing you start adjusting the pitch, and it's going to be way more difficult for a person who can understand semi-tones (half steps) and what intervals work in mixing when you start to do that.

If you just rely on some software and software alone, I think your putting yourself in deep shit. I admit mixed in key and such is tempting for speedy keying, but honestly if anything if you HAD to get the program, why not understand what the program is telling you and do a double check??? My 2 or 3 cents

Check out our key detection software comparison here.

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Originally posted by Alex i downloaded the free trial of mixed in key just to try it out, i uploaded about 20 songs to which i knew the keys of.. every single one of them was wrong no joke 20 tracks...

Hi,

I'm Yakov, I've been on TranceAddict since 2001 and I developed the original Windows version. We've long-ago discontinued the free trial because it was for Version 1.26. It's one-and-a-half years out of date. We've updated the algorithm at least 3 times since then, and our latest version offers an improvement over the old results.

The algorithm used in Version 3.0 uses a patent-pending method in the United States. We hired two professional musicians to analyze approximately 1000 songs in a wide variety of genres, and used this information to teach our algorithm how professional musicians detect keys. A lot of professional DJs were happy with the results, and Version 3.0 has been our best launch yet.

Although I respect that our friend Mark Davis (Camelot Sound) has linked to the key detection comparison, it's out-of-date as well -- The version that's compared on that page uses a previous-generation algorithm from Zplane Development. The new version is based on our fusion algorithm of Zplane and a custom in-house enhancement. It would be better if the comparison was done again.


We know that Mixed In Key is not for everyone, but it is used by professional DJs including Pete Tong, Blank & Jones, 4 Strings, Kuffdam, John Digweed, Deep Dish and many more.


-Yakov, Mixed In Key

learn to do it yourself kids. quicker, easier, more seductive.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN more seductive.

Yep, girls love DJs who can key their own tunes. It's usually one of the things on their checklist of their "perfect guy".


Actually having said that, I would be all over a girly DJ who keys her own tunes

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