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-- Of course the Russians did it. They're the experts
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And one more reason why Russian police didnt kill Litvinenko: everyone, invluding Berezovsky and Litvinenko claimed that FSB did this. But FSB has no jurisdiction on this, its like blaiming FBI on a car bombing in India - its CIA's job. GRU is the Russian CIA. Its GRU that should be blamed, but its not. Litvinenko should know better. FSB is not involved at all, its not their expertise nor jurisiction. Assassination of the terrorist Yandarbiyev was carried out by GRU agents.

Altho it has happened in the past, I can assure you it is illegal for the UK to carry out extrajudicial killings...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Russian media ... different political angles.

Yep, Russia has different political angles in their media alright!

It's just that if they are different from the Government, they often turn up dead...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5416218.stm

Funnily enough, Litvinenko was investigating her murder shortly before his own murder...

Hmmmmmmm

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Can someone explain why those dumbasses would use polonium to kill him? Isn't it obvious that super expensive shizzle like that would be traced back to a government? Why not use a .05 bullet and make it look like a robbery? Putin is a silly goose.

Really, it could have been anyone. Any country, that is.

quote:

Originally posted by George Smiley Yep, Russia has different political angles in their media alright! It's just that if they are different from the Government, they often turn up dead... http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5416218.stm Funnily enough, Litvinenko was investigating her murder shortly before his own murder... Hmmmmmmm

The truth is ... a lot of people die in Russia every day from contract killings. Today I already read on vesti.ru about 3 killings, 2 on businessman and one on a city mayor. But there are no spotlights on them in the Western media! Ever since Soviet Union collapsed, many military crack units and special troops lost their jobs. So to keep themselves alive they joined and/or created mafia groups, criminal organizations, hitmen units, etc. because of their former military expertise, connections and experience. Russian government no longer needed them for most part. And so the mayhem has begun. How about the shocking murder last year of Andrey Kozlov, the government official who I saw as a bright light to attack on corruption and curb the very corrupt banking system (private system) that took money from so many people and never gave it back. You think the government killed him, too? They cant even protect their own people for Christ's sake, and you think Politkovskaya had adequate protection as well?

Surely a lot of people hated here, the government feared her, but they couldn't touch here because if they did kill her, it would be OBVIOUS who killed her. So someone did it to make it look like the Russian government did it. Its pretty dam obvious. Its really really sad and unfortunate that she had to die, she was a great reporter. But its not perfect in Russia right now, there's still a lot of work to be done in reforming the country and getting rid of all the fucking criminal bastards (like Berezovky), but the killings of such people as Kozlov I think have sent shockwaves that will instill fear into Russian government officials to do little or nothing to curb crime and corruption. Its just sad ...

Read more on him:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrey_Kozlov

oher sad killings in Russia that shocked me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladislav_Listyev

^^ my favourite TV person when I was in Russia ... his killing (under Yeltsin regime) was so senseless... I LOVED his shows. Whole Russia cried ....

An interestinf quote in that above link:

"A 1996 article in Forbes Godfather of the Kremlin by Paul Klebnikov accused Boris Berezovsky of ordering the murder. Berezovsky said the article was a "series of lies" and sued the magazine in Britain. Berezovsky withdrew the libel suit in 2003 following Forbes's statement that there was no evidence that Berezovsky had ordered anyone's murder. Klebnikov, who published a book with the same title in September 2000, was murdered in April 9, 2004.[1]"

"Observers have suggested Klebnikov may have made powerful enemies because he investigated corruption and sought to shed light on Russian business. He wrote Godfather of the Kremlin (Forbes, September 2000), a biography of a Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky. Berezovsky was openly critical of Klebnikov's writings, particularly an article published in Forbes in 1996 about his alleged criminal activities for which he filed a libel suit, and Forbes was forced to retract the allegations. [1]

In 2003 Klebnikov published his second book Conversation with a Barbarian, in which Klebnikov provides the transcipt of his 15 hour conversation with a Chechen crime figure, politician and guerilla commander Khozh-Ahmed Noukhaev, and expresses his views on Islamic and Chechen terrorism.


[edit] Murder and investigations
Klebnikov was shot dead on a Moscow street late at night on July 9, 2004 by unknown assailants. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Klebnikov


^^^ Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm ........

George, do you see now where I am getting at? Russian government killed THEIR own people and THEIR own media support base? Seriously, you read too much anti-Russian media to understand the depth of the situation of problems in Russia. Putin cant just hire 1 million bodyguards and spend billions of dollars to protect everyone ... its not going to work, and its not going to help. There are people who are bent on ruining Putin's success and presidency, people who dont give a fuck about the future of Russia, people who kill others for money, kill for political motivations ... Chechen warlords have been arrested with the murder of Khlebnikov and Politkovskaya ... but thats not good enought for you, eh? They are actually the main suspects, because the stories by the journalists incriminated Chechen resistance and politicians there ... please come to your senses and understand this problem.

Dude, the Russians are world renowned for killing their own people to squash dissent.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Dude, the Russians are world renowned for killing their own people to squash dissent.

Russian history is filled with violence and terrorism. But some leaders like Putin are trying to change that, trying to wipe out the communist disease, the communist way of things. Yeltsin's freewill allowed oligarchs and mafia to reign over Russia ... at one point it was quoted that as much as 60% of Russia was run by mafia. I've lived there, I know what they're talking about. Putin came around and decided it was long enough. So the "new wave" of dissidents began to flow, claiming that Putin was against democracy, that he was criminal, while they themselves had a history of corruption, murder, manipulation ... how do you think those oligarchs like Berezovsky made their billions in the 1990s? Are you really that naive to believe they all followed laws and bought their stakes in businesses at reasonable prices without bribes and government connections in this? People like Berezovsky, Gusinski, Abramovich went from poor salesmen on the streets to billionaires in just few years from all kinds of dark deals, aided with corrupt government, assassinations, illegal takeovers and corruption. Yeltsin's mafia gang. Plus how do you think Shell managed to get for fire price massive gas fields in Sakhalin? Corruption. Back then you could buy half of the country of you had the money and government connections. I've seen some businesses change hands many times, and some of the businessmen were killed by others.

Putin came around to change that. Fuck all those oligarchs. I know how they made their money, how they became rich billionaires and how the rest of Russia became even poorer while them few prospered ...

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium Russian history is filled with violence and terrorism. But some leaders like Putin are trying to change that, trying to wipe out the communist disease, the communist way of things. Yeltsin's freewill allowed oligarchs and mafia to reign over Russia ... at one point it was quoted that as much as 60% of Russia was run by mafia. I've lived there, I know what they're talking about. Putin came around and decided it was long enough. So the "new wave" of dissidents began to flow, claiming that Putin was against democracy, that he was criminal, while they themselves had a history of corruption, murder, manipulation ... how do you think those oligarchs like Berezovsky made their billions in the 1990s? Are you really that naive to believe they all followed laws and bought their stakes in businesses at reasonable prices without bribes and government connections in this? People like Berezovsky, Gusinski, Abramovich went from poor salesmen on the streets to billionaires in just few years from all kinds of dark deals, aided with corrupt government, assassinations, illegal takeovers and corruption. Yeltsin's mafia gang. Plus how do you think Shell managed to get for fire price massive gas fields in Sakhalin? Corruption. Back then you could buy half of the country of you had the money and government connections. I've seen some businesses change hands many times, and some of the businessmen were killed by others. Putin came around to change that. Fuck all those oligarchs. I know how they made their money, how they became rich billionaires and how the rest of Russia became even poorer while them few prospered ...

lol, okay. Sure, one political entity is less corrupt than another. I'm glad we're living in this fairy tale.

Tell you what.

Q can be the paid sponsor for the neocons, and you can be the paid sponsor for Putin.

Who needs credibility anyway, when you've got allegiance?

We'll throw the Milgram experiments out the window, just for you.

quote:

Originally posted by Sunsnail I think the Russians were behind 9/11. The evidence is obvious

Yep. Putin flew them via hologram satelite remote missle control (HSRM)

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby lol, okay. Sure, one political entity is less corrupt than another. I'm glad we're living in this fairy tale. Tell you what. Q can be the paid sponsor for the neocons, and you can be the paid sponsor for Putin. Who needs credibility anyway, when you've got allegiance? We'll throw the Milgram experiments out the window, just for you.

No, under Putin you will no longer be able to go from a street salesman to a billionaire in a few years because the government will not sponsor your terror. The Yeltsin's appalling era is over, because of that bastard we had to leave. Some order is coming back to Russia. Putin is no neocon, he is simply forcing out the criminal elements in the country (and thats perceived in the West as an attack on democracy and return totalitarianism). See the laws Putin have passed ... oh sorry, you wouldn't, because the Western media NEVER talks about the good laws he passed, only the "questionable" laws they like to pick on him. You should look in your own backyard, you'll see your government pass worse laws and do worse things that what Putin's administration did ... surely things are far from perfect, but Putin's done many good things for Russia, economically and politically speaking. He finally started bringing prestige back to Russia. How do you think we won 2014 Olympics bid?

Why is it every time Russia is improving and things are getting better, its perceived so negatively in the West? You guys are really that naive that the Russian people will want to continue living as third world people in their country??? We had enough of the bullshit. Time to reclaim what is rightfully ours ... our resources, our pride, prestige, economy and all the other things that the West can do. And so far there's a wall of double standards hitting back our way.

The truth is, you guys [the West] NEVER gave a shit about Russia. When Soviet Union was going down, you guys made a lot of promises and tried everything to bring down what took decaded to build. We happily nodded and accepted how you guys allowed our country being destroyed from within ... how your businesses came to our country, seized our resources, made billions, supported and endorsed criminal and corrupt government, ignored the first brutal Chechen War which even I opposed; became friends with many oligarchs and mafia that have seen been deposed and/or exposed for their crimes, put our country in debt by massive loans to mafia and criminal government officials; continued expansion into Eastern Europe militarily via NATO and EU even though Cold War was over; ignored our human right problems and other. And it was all called beautiful democracy, progress in Russia ... mafia was taking over, and everything was peachy. Then Putin came and started rebuilding the country ... and everything became wrong in the West. It turned out that economic progress in Russia is a bad thing. Jailing criminals and murderers is a bad thing. Fighting a new war against terrorists and radicals is a bad thing. Trying to extradite criminal oligarchs is a bad thing. Taking back natural resources because the companies who had them didnt pay taxes damaged the environment didnt give a shit about locals - bad thing. FUCKING everything that was going better in Russia was a bad thing. Suddenly Russia was heading into totalitarianism. Standards of living increased, many businesses propped up ... bad thing.

Fuck the West. You guys know dick shit about Russia. You guys are just hoping that Russia would always stick its tail in its arse and give you everything you want. No, sorry, thats not going to happen. Russia is rich in resources, people, proud history and will eventually get back what is rightfully ours. And no bullshit from the West is going to stop us. Instead of having equal market political relations, you guys are interfering and criticizing our progress ... and what do you expect, us Russians to just give in to your bullshit demands to return to the 1990s? Any Russian will tell you to fuck off. 1990s was one of the worst decades in Russian history. And according to the West, it was the most happiest and democratic decade in Russian history (oh, I know why).

Because of all your ill-treatment of Russia, you will as a result lose potential future great economic and trade deals and strong friends. We will instead be forced (and are doing so) making friends with no-so good countries that we would rather not make friends with (i.e. Iran, China, Sudan). I've lived in Russia, I've seen it. I know what I am talking about.

You guys really think we want to evolve into Chinese-dominated economy? We embraced the West in 1990s, and all got is huge amounts of our capital heading out. You guys came and abused our country, and we were OK even with that. But the happy easy ride is coming to an end ...

Look man...

you can create this "you vs us" mentality all you want.

I don't apply to it, and I don't endorse, not even for a second. What's corrupt is corrupt... and the fact is, that is often the government, western, russian, anywhere.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Shibby Look man... you can create this "you vs us" mentality all you want. I don't apply to it, and I don't endorse, not even for a second. What's corrupt is corrupt... and the fact is, that is often the government, western, russian, anywhere.

Ok, you understand then. And you dont apply double standards in this case, so thats all that matters. I cant stand it when people criticize Russian government while their own one has problems or has had problems not any smaller than the Russian one. Its not a good idea to create a boogeyman out of Russia when they can be such a great ally and partner with all the riches and possibilities. We extend a hand of friendship and co-operation, but we're sick and tired of putting bandages on it, and we're thinking about pulling it back ...

One thing I really dont understand is why they keep spitting at Russia. They really want us to turn to China and Asia? Because we can, and we are doing it. But by treating Russia like a piece of shit they shouldn't expect us Russians to be happy with them and give them resources, co-operation and etc. We didnt start this horseshit. And we certainly dont want it continue on. They want us more than we want them. Russia has been a closed culture for many generations. Recently we have opened up, but what has that gotten us?

quote:

Originally posted by Capitalizt Can someone explain why those dumbasses would use polonium to kill him? Isn't it obvious that super expensive shizzle like that would be traced back to a government? Why not use a .05 bullet and make it look like a robbery? Putin is a silly goose.

It's almost like how the Anthrax spores which were mailed to Senators Daschle and Leahy were of the Ames strain, a strain which originated at the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Disease at Ft. Detrick.

Both men were highly vocal opponents of the Patriot Act which was being pushed on Congress at the time.

Via Wikipedia:

quote:

On the 9th of May 2002, New Scientist published an article [41] that reported: The DNA sequence of the anthrax sent through the US mail in 2001 has been revealed and confirms suspicions that the bacteria originally came from a US military laboratory. The data released uses codenames for the reference strains against which the attack strain was compared. The two reference strains that appear identical to the attack strain most likely originated at the US Army Medical Research Institute for Infectious Diseases at Fort Detrick (USAMRIID), Maryland. The new work also shows that substantial genetic differences can emerge in two samples of an anthrax culture separated for only three years. This means the attacker's anthrax was not separated from its ancestors at USAMRIID for many generations.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2001_anthrax_attacks

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