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-- Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine
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quote:

Originally posted by Chris Allen Really? Well how about the $300 audio unit I bought, from Mackie: not exactly a small-time audio manufacturer. Plug in, doesn't work at all. Call support: no Vista drivers for another 3 months. Back to XP, worked fine. Wireless driver, same problem. NIC card, same problem. External Hard Drives, same problem. I'm a Microsoft beta tester and I've had nothing but problems with this OS, so I think I'm validated enough to say that by my personal experiences that I would not recommend it.

yeah... so its Microsoft's problem that Mackie doesn't have drivers ready for their own products?

You should know better, Vista has been in testing for a full 18 months, which should be plenty of time for any half assed company to write drivers.

Your memory seems selective because you are praising XP. Guess what, a shitload of products didn't have drivers ready for XP's launch.

Got a toshiba laptop a few weeks ago with vista loaded, with all the racket surrounding it I was very suspicious and was considering removing it for XP. Guess what, everything runs perfect, nothing unusual about it some crashes here and there (similar to XP), very fast and all the software I am using are working great!

Awesome shit Cale

I'm a huge storage guy, considering my giant collection of STUFF, so....

I just saw this article on Tom's which showed how fast the new WD drives were. I have about 1.5TB of seagate HDDs, but if I could get Raptor speeds in regular drives, fuck I might just go for it. Yes, I know they only come with a 3 year warranty, compared to Seagate's 5 years. I would rather run 0+1, as 5 just seems fishy, but I know its mathimatically sound. As for RAID, look at Tom's Raid Scaling charts. God I live Tom's.

As for your 1066MHZ ram, what is the FSB on the CPU? The price premium on DDR3 is so high right now, you have to make sure you are getting what you paid for. Read a few different reviews to make sure your MB does not have an 'memory leaks (basically does it scale properly). The Asus P5M is a good line, but check it out to be sure, since you are paying so much.

Otherwise, if you need to bounce any more ideas back and forth, get me on MSN. I need to discuss this stuff again, because nobody around me seems willing anymore.

pirate your OS and get a copy of xp pro, which works just fine.

Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

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Originally posted by Invasionmix Hey I work at Canada Computers

WTF! That's amazing dude!

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

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Originally posted by Chris Allen It should have been fine when it was released, that was the whole point. This operating system will eventually be fine, but it's been a massive embarrassment to Microsoft in the process of release.

Everything new always has bugs and problems with it, look at the first year for any generation of cars. But I agree with you, the RTM version and even at first Vista wasn't what Microsoft hyped it up to be, but now I see customers come in telling me that it's not that bad.

quote:

Originally posted by E2EK1EL WTF! That's amazing dude!

Is that suppose to be sarcasm?

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Also, Invasionmix: If I were to walk into a CC store, would they let me pick and choose to find a G0 stepping Q6600, or would they just hand me one and I take my chances?

Depends on the sales person and the location you go to. Some sales people are just pretty much annoyed by any customer, and some would gladly help you look for the right stepping. I know in the Mississauga location none of us would mind.

here's the rule for Microsoft OS's ok... they aren't "ready" until SP2.

learn it.

Re: Awesome shit Cale

quote:

Originally posted by Orko I'm a huge storage guy, considering my giant collection of STUFF, so.... I just saw this article on Tom's which showed how fast the new WD drives were. I have about 1.5TB of seagate HDDs, but if I could get Raptor speeds in regular drives, fuck I might just go for it. Yes, I know they only come with a 3 year warranty, compared to Seagate's 5 years. I would rather run 0+1, as 5 just seems fishy, but I know its mathimatically sound. As for RAID, look at Tom's Raid Scaling charts. God I live Tom's.

Surprising about the relative access times, but like I mentioned before, if write/read performance is an issue, then it still might make sense to put in a RAID. Not sure if that's as huge a deal with Autocad or not, but I know on any server side file transactions at my work, it's usually the read/writes that kill us in the end, not the actual access.

Just wondering, is 128MB of video RAM enough for CAD? The last CAD program I used was Anvil for Win'98 so im not really sure how much they eat up now.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

quote:

Originally posted by Invasionmix Is that suppose to be sarcasm?

Not at all, I'm always at Canada Computers. I'm normaly at the Kennedy location and sometimes at the Cummer location.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

quote:

Originally posted by Invasionmix Everything new always has bugs and problems with it, look at the first year for any generation of cars. But I agree with you, the RTM version and even at first Vista wasn't what Microsoft hyped it up to be, but now I see customers come in telling me that it's not that bad.

Lol, do you see anything wrong with Microsoft expecting their customers to pay a few hundred dollars for software that the customers review as "not that bad"? Personally, with the pricetag it carries, and the years it's been in development, I'd expect the reviews to be "wowowowow this is the best thing since sliced bread!!111" and not "ehhh it's not that bad."

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

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Originally posted by Cosmic Fur Lol, do you see anything wrong with Microsoft expecting their customers to pay a few hundred dollars for software that the customers review as "not that bad"? Personally, with the pricetag it carries, and the years it's been in development, I'd expect the reviews to be "wowowowow this is the best thing since sliced bread!!111" and not "ehhh it's not that bad."

I'll use my analogy again, cars cost a lot more there's a longer history in development versus computers, yet there's always problems with it. Look at Mercedes and Audi cars, there's always electrical problems with it. Mercedes and Audi releases cars and when the car is messed up they repair it, log it, and make sure to fix it in the next year. Microsoft releases their products in a similar way.

Its called engineering guys. You have a budget, a scope, and a list of objectives. Expecting any OS to be perfect is just stupid.

As for drivers, that is a joint partnership. MS has to create an environment for peripherals manufacturers to develop drivers. If MS makes it hard for the manufacturers to create drivers its MS's fault; but if the environment exists, and manufacturers are slow to react, then its their fault.

As with any technology, virtual or not, early adopters always pay a hefty price. This should not be a surprise.

Now if you want to continue this idiotic argument, carry it to the other Vista thread, which was started last year.

If you actually want to give Cale some advice, then do it.

I vote we just give Caleson advice.

BTW Cale, that's a serious machine with some serious programs.

How come your getting those for?
Just curious.

Your not "Fucking around" as we like to say.

Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

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Originally posted by VERTiG0 I'm building this machine to run AutoCAD 2008, AutoCAD Architecture 2008, and Autodesk VIZ. It'll be my main desktop machine for pissing around, as well. Proposed specs: Antec P182 case Seasonic 620w PSU Intel Xeon X3220 (quad core, 2.4GHz, SLACR/G0 stepping if I'm lucky, the 3120s are all G0s but 3220s aren't all, just yet) Asus P5M2/SAS mobo 4GB 800MHz Corsair XMS2 Dominator memory (CAS latencies 4-4-4-12) 500GB Seagate SATA drive 150GB Western Digital Raptor 10K sexdrive (mmmmmm) PNY Quadro FX560 128MB video PCI-E video card some piece of shit soundcard because I don't care that much Vista Ultimate 64-bit Perhaps instead of the Raptor, I'd grab another 500GB Barracuda and a PCI RAID card and run RAID-0? Or a bunch of 320s and run RAID-5... Maybe step up to some 1066MHZ RAM? Maybe I could skip the Quadro and run an 8800GTX 320MB? Thoughts? I believe these all to be pretty cream-of-the-crop components.

In my opinion you have built an amazing machine. Great processor, dun care much about the case but good for you if you like it, drives are great but I think for the type of programs you're running...you need more RAM...lots of RAM. AutoCad takes up so much out of the processor....video card seems good...Vista or XP ...even though Vista is getting bad reviews, I would still suggest to go with Vista. Good luck with the compatibility issues but Vista is the way ahead in terms of technology. + it definitely has a better feel than XP. Finally, monitors :-)....with a computer like that, it is a shame to get a monitor smaller than 23''. Cale, you are quite the computer nerd...

quote:

Originally posted by Orko Its called engineering guys. You have a budget, a scope, and a list of objectives. Expecting any OS to be perfect is just stupid. As for drivers, that is a joint partnership. MS has to create an environment for peripherals manufacturers to develop drivers. If MS makes it hard for the manufacturers to create drivers its MS's fault; but if the environment exists, and manufacturers are slow to react, then its their fault. As with any technology, virtual or not, early adopters always pay a hefty price. This should not be a surprise. Now if you want to continue this idiotic argument, carry it to the other Vista thread, which was started last year. If you actually want to give Cale some advice, then do it.

Thank you!

Anyways, you have the system spec'd out pretty nicely. I don't know if I'd pay the premiums on the quad-core CPUs, and 64-bit OS is kind of a waste unless you're running an app that is specific to the architecture. I haven't done any recent reading on Autodesk products, but from what I can recall, no native 64 bit software...
Even though everyone is a proponent of RAID, IMO I'd stick with your setup. Why? Dunno, just personal preference I suppose. I just built a machine recently, and went with segragated OS and app physical drives.
Also, nothing wrong with Vista. There are quirks, like with any other brand new OS. The drastic API changes forced many manufacturers to completely rewrite system drivers, thus a lot of ppl couldn't piggyback off their existing architecture and didn't meet the deadline for release. Calling Vista shit cuz you couldn't get a niche (yes it IS a niche market) sound card to work...well...
Additionally, I'd definitely go for a better video card. Even though the 8800gts (the 320mb is the gts), I'd go for the full blown GTX. Its a bit more expensive, but worth it. You're looking at almost 30%
of a performance gap between the two.

Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 Barracuda

lol. i got one for the name.

and i can sing along everytime i use it. "barracuda, cha cha cha!"

Re: Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

quote:

Originally posted by StereoPrincess lol. i got one for the name. and i can sing along everytime i use it. "barracuda, cha cha cha!"

I love your StereoPrincess-ness!

My home system runs on a Quad CPU and I love it. I like it when I can download, stream my tunes, run FTP, host website, + more all at the same time with no apparent slowdowns. My fav was most of the above while playing Need For Speed Most Wanted (ported full screen to my second vid out) to my 50" Sony HDTV without any hiccups. Smooth! Best shitload of cash I've ever spent.

Re: Computer nerds: Critique my next build - CAD machine

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 ...

You're a CAD machine!!!

On a serious note...

I did CAD drawings for a summer (HVAC systems and front facades of buildings) and the computers you're going to work on professionally are going to be at least a year or two old.

Don't load your machine with advanced cutting edge gear because you'll get too familiar with top features and then have to "regress" when you finally end up working (consider using a version or two under what the current is).

So after a bit more research, seems the Xeon X3220s aren't showing up in anybody's hands with G0 steppings, so I'm just going to go with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 - which means I don't need that ridiculous motherboard anymore to accomodate a Xeon.

And, because Core 2 chips see their biggest increases in performance when memory and FSB are at a 1:1 ratio, I'll scale back to 800MHz memory... OCZ Platinum XTC Rev.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15. I'd prefer Crucial Ballistix, but for $80 less, and the minimum RAS active time is only 3 cycles slower than the Ballstix, I'll go with OCZ.

Then I played the Bioshock demo the other day, and I forgot what a Quadro was.

So then:
Antec P182 case
Seasonic 620w PSU
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme HSF with a 120mm Yate Loon
Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L motherboard
2GC OCZ Platinum XTC Rev.2 PC2-6400 RAM
500GB Seagate SATA hard disk
eVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB

Gonna run 8x400 on the multiplier and FSB to reach at 3200MHz, thus keeping the FSB and RAM at the desired 1:1 ratio.

Cale, I consider myself pretty nerdy in the realm of computers (although not hardware), and even I did not understand about half of what you just said. Pr0p5.

quote:

Originally posted by VERTiG0 So after a bit more research, seems the Xeon X3220s aren't showing up in anybody's hands with G0 steppings, so I'm just going to go with a Core 2 Quad Q6600 - which means I don't need that ridiculous motherboard anymore to accomodate a Xeon. And, because Core 2 chips see their biggest increases in performance when memory and FSB are at a 1:1 ratio, I'll scale back to 800MHz memory... OCZ Platinum XTC Rev.2 PC2-6400 CL4-4-4-15. I'd prefer Crucial Ballistix, but for $80 less, and the minimum RAS active time is only 3 cycles slower than the Ballstix, I'll go with OCZ. Then I played the Bioshock demo the other day, and I forgot what a Quadro was. So then: Antec P182 case Seasonic 620w PSU Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 Thermalright Ultra-120 eXtreme HSF with a 120mm Yate Loon Gigabyte GA-P35-DS3L motherboard 2GC OCZ Platinum XTC Rev.2 PC2-6400 RAM 500GB Seagate SATA hard disk eVGA GeForce 8800GTS 320MB Gonna run 8x400 on the multiplier and FSB to reach at 3200MHz, thus keeping the FSB and RAM at the desired 1:1 ratio.

you should have sticked with an 8800 GTX and get 1066 memory and overclock it higher.

Your system is not bad... I have just upgraded my comp too and I am also running AutoCad 2008 with Land Desktop 2007.

My suggestion is to go get Intel 2 Duo Core E6850 with FSB 1333mhz and 3.0 GHz.

If you want to get a quadro, its just waist of money, there are only couple software which are written to use all 4 cores. And I don�t think Autocad supports 4 cores. You will only benefit if you do some kind of band which like video encoding.

Motherboard you need a future prove so you can change CPU when new 45 nm cpus will come out.

I am running Mushkin memory XP2-6400 ( 2gb x 1 gb sticks), which is a performance memory. You can only buy them from Canada Computers or Mushkin online store.

I don�t suggest getting a 1066 Mhz of memory, because its just a waist of money.

For example E6850 runs at 1333mhz you divide that number by 4, you get 333. That is the actual speed of processor. Multiply 333 by 2 you get 666. 666 is the frequency which your memory should be run. So if you get 1066 Mhz memory it will be under volted to run at speeds of 666 mhz. However if you want to run your memory at 1066 you need to overclock your FSB to around 2000 mhz, meaning you need very good motherboard and cooling.

About video card, my suggestion to buy some cheap one, and wait until new once to come out with better direcx 10 support.


My system:
Antec P180 $160
Seasonic 430w $100
E6850 $320
Asus P5K Deluxe $220
Mushkin XP2-6400 $240
WD 500gb
Zalman cooling CPU temp around 20 C
Some cheap Radeon�.

Check out... www.mushkin.com Go to forum with their memory. Support can give you manual settings for your motherboard for the best performance.

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