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-- Want to make a living from EDM music production?
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| Originally posted by palm this is like famous people would have to pay for wearing clothes' brands. maybe. just a thought. the dj is actualy doing free promotion for you so show some respect. the djs are VERY important to this scene. |
I was personally thinking of big events such as trance energy etc... where there is quite a lot of people attending / cash.
It would probablly be impossible to implement etc..., but it would just be nice in theory for producers to be paid a little amount when there tracks are played at these big events.
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| Originally posted by Mane I just came up with an idea, what if every dj who play for example for audience above 1000 people, or those big names would make an official tracklist of tracks they play at certain gig , so for example at the end of year,half year ect they would be charged from they fees for each track played at certain gig, some kind of taxes and certain labels would get those money to pay more for producers  |
I read some information on Music copyright last year and it stated that every DJ is "supposed" to get permission from each producer to play their music out... But in the real world I guess it's never possible. It was on an official Music Copyright information site as well.
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| Originally posted by Blahzaay I read some information on Music copyright last year and it stated that every DJ is "supposed" to get permission from each producer to play their music out... But in the real world I guess it's never possible. It was on an official Music Copyright information site as well. |
this is the very first time I don't entirely agree with john's ideas about this.
I have to admit that facts being cited are the exact truth, though. John is an extremely good friend, also a reliable partner, and no doubt he has a point here. But I'd like to add my two cents on how it feels for me.
You all know how it ruined my soul back in the dark days. To be honest, it should have opened my eyes on a situation that was NOT brand new, happily enough I got to open them after all.
People gave up budgets they had for music in favor of every single kind of gadget,mobile phones and ringtones that money can buy, or movies, or other media (video games anyone??). Their point of interests have changed, and some call that priority-switching but that's just one of those factors.
The costs have increased horribly, especially in Western Europe. For example, bread costs now 2 Euros here while it was 1 Euro 25, this ten years ago. Same with every single basic product, fuel here in Belgium, 1,35 Euro a liter of Euro 95, while it didn't cost 90 cents in 1997.
And not to forget that the internet is a monthly cost to put on top of that. What was a weird thing back in 97 is now a basic need for many of us...
And, finally, there's that thing, online sharing, that lets you download songs you like in a compressed format, mpeg 1 layer 3. It's fast, easy as one-two-three.
Of course everyone needs to know that this remains illegal, and that I don't encourage illegal sharing 24/7 without buying anything.
That said, what do people really share "illegaly"?? Most of the time, mtv and radio stuff that's being played 20 times a day. And here I totally agree with John, it doesn't harm the company when you share this kind of music. And again, I agree with John when he says that it harms us, as we're the first victims of that crisis, we the indies, you know, the guys who run this business out of passion??
And here comes my point of disagreement. Fact is, WHY do WE have to pay for that? Why do the madonna's and britneys all over the world get plays 20 times a day on mtv?? Why do record companies invest so much, like 1m us$ while you can invest 10 000 in a hundred new artists? Why does it have to affect us?
And further, fact is, if an artist needs a 100 000 us$ video investment to generate a lot of sales, if this has been done by hundreds of artists signed by universal, bmg, sony, emi, warner, if all of them just do a break-even, well people get used to get fed like ducks for their meat. So, they don't see the millions of people willing to share their passion for music.
Today sees us live one of the most important failures of the whole system in a century. Media-based marketing on art has shown its limits. Whether you paint, photograph landscapes, make small movies, or cool music you're happy with, in order to do for a living what you were made for, you need so much marketing... unbearable for the most of us.
Again, we get treated like sheep because all of those brands just invest so much money.
Something that the world forgot. You can influence people, but you cannot alter their tastes.
So, here's my conclusion.
We should admit that fighting sales that decrease, while we're 6 billion people on earth, and while 2 billion and a half don't even get access to our art because they don't even have anything to eat, is quite ridiculous.
We should consider this every single time we make something, and everyone in the music industry should keep this in mind.
That would at least make some of us a lot more humble, a lot less self-sufficient, and also that would make us happier after all. This is what the Flower-power movement was made of back in the end-60's-70's.
God only knows what's gonna happen. Budgets allowed for every record could decrease, that would be great for the thousands of promising records remaining unsigned and unheard. Or some might figure out something incredible to revolutionize the face of the music industry.
In fact, it depends on us, you know, the middle-class. In a way, people need our money so much, that we might dictate whatever we want. It's harsh to say, but we haven't made good use of so much power, YET.
"I'd rather save an 3rd world-kid from death than sell 1000 000 cd's. Because after all, money won't make us happy." This is something that Armin van Buuren for example (and just as an example), or every single well- or over- paid artist in our scene (depends how you consider them, right, not a personal opinion here), should think about before acting or performing.
How are we going to explain our kids that soon out of 2 kids on earth, one will die from lack of nutrition because a dj gets 20-35 000 Euros for 2 hours?? or even 6000 euros? It's as simple as that for me. It's how richness (not money, but richness in general) is inequally being distributed on earth.
So, let's remain humble guys with a passion for music. That's what all of us agree with after all. Like painting, writing books, making movies, it's just art being made by craftsmen. The day we die, only what we've done to make the world better really will matter.
Wow, thats certainly something to think on Lolo... I certainly agree with you that money doesn't buy happiness, but I would love for 1000 people to buy my CDs, only because it would mean that hopefully I'm giving them happiness... But I guess when your starving or your family's died of AIDS, then music maybe isn't much consolation.
I think one reason people have run away from music to put money into other things, is that they aren't exposed to music worth buying. Also, prices are ridiculous, especially when most of the time you've never heard the songs on the record before, due to it never being played on the radio. You're basically spending $50 on an item of completely unknown quality, thats a real leap of faith. Also, I find that a lot of people just don't listen to music anymore. Whenever I hang out with friends all they ever do is turn the music down till you can hardly hear it. For those people it doesn't matter whether its britney or Deadmau5, its just background chatter.
I think you've hit something with the amount spent on the few these days. Spending 1 mil on an artist just isn't fair when others are getting nothing. If music can't sell itself without a video, then maybe its not worth even producing. These days the artist isn't really about the music they make, they have become a BRAND. A clothing line, a perfume, a video. Thats what the 360 degree deals are all about. Labels just often aren't interested in music anymore, only image and how they can use it to sell hard material goods - the sort of goods which can't be downloaded.
I hope one day in the future audiences will be able to find music which appeals to them, music which moves them. I hope that artists will be paid for making that music, and be able to continue making it without any concern for where their next meal is coming from. But I don't know how or if that is ever going to happen, so it remains only a hope.
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| Originally posted by palm this is like famous people would have to pay for wearing clothes' brands. maybe. just a thought. the dj is actualy doing free promotion for you so show some respect. the djs are VERY important to this scene. |
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| Originally posted by piku303 then i go to TA and post in the unknown tracks section and find out what it is. how many people at clubs do that after? |
Don't forget about DJs who make their sets available via the internet, producers don't get any money out of that either. That is counted as promotion, so no one really cares I suppose. I bet a lot of DJs don't even get permission from the labels or producers.
I used to be in underground metal bands, so I'm used to not making money from music. At the moment, I'm trying to get some of my tracks signed to labels. I can tell this is going to take a while. When I do find a label or labels, it will take 3 or 4 months to see the release. After that long wait, I'll probably end up making under $100. It just doesn't seem worth it. If I was going to make $500 per track, that might be worth it.
I don't mind giving out tracks for free, but I'd have to do my own mastering and promotion, neither of which I am great at. I feel like that's all labels are good for.
good thread guys, but i think everyones getting a little downer on producing music. you should never think music is not worth producing, if you think your making something that other ppl should be hearing keep going, like someone else said its all about the music. sure it might be hard to make a living out of but why should you stop trying, one reason why ure not making soo much money is because theres soo many other producers trying to break into the scene aswell so be original and work hard and eventually you might make it big. even if you dont you should be honoured that ppl out there do dig your music and aslong as you get some feedback from fans it should be worth it.
and dont forget dj's have to work freekin hard to make some cash too, theres soo many dickheads out there that think they can dj and youve got to be on top of em and trying to promote ureself and when everyones a dj is a bit hard. and djing isn't just knowing how to use cdjs, theres a shit load of reasearch and practise. i think that all dj's should be paying the proper price for the music they play as soon as they get a decent gig and i agree that producers are underpaid but unfortunately theres not much you can do but try harder to get ure music to the world, if ure real serious about trance music you should be a dj and producer i think,
think about this
your at a decent sized gig, good equipment in front of you, the last dj left the crowd happy but they're not peaking yet, standing in front of these ppl being the centre of attention already has the adrenalin pumping, some of the crowd know your name and music, your building in your set and the crowds vibe is risin and finally get to mixing in your track, smooth transition, bam! its mixed in and the crowd is loving it, you look around and theres those few ppl that just start partying even harder, you pause to enjoy the moment where you are in complete control of the crowd and have completely captured them with your music. your the first person to play ure track and local magazines give you a good write up, which promotes your track awesomely and other dj's buy ure track to try and recreate ure same effect but clubbers find that that was your own track and want to listen to the dj that made it and plays orginal tracks rather than hammering the tracks from armins last playlist.
lol, thats such a perfect situation but atleast its something to aspire to.
we all just got to remember why we love music and keep on tryin dont think about the money, think about the status, where you've got ureself with ure music, if you really love music youll have a high paying casual job just to pour cash into your music and if you work hard enough you will be rewarded.
goodluck
robb sonykc
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Well I should have read this post before..
I quit my day job!
But I am spending important time working with audio as thats where I want my career to go. I think its BS to spend all your time and energy at a job only to be drained and lacking time to do things that make life enjoyable. I quit my job and don't really have money but you know what I am happy! I spend all day working on music and at night relax. When school starts im going to take full time audio classes.
I quit my job because I have a plan for a career in the audio field, whatever that may be.. post-production work for movies, Live sound,\ ect.
But am I realistic about my music or DJing? ofcourse I am.. Im not expecting to be "THe" next anything. I just want to be able to do what I have done in the past 6-7 years of my life because its my obsession.
Now I know this is kind off from what the topic was talking about, I just thought it was funny that I quit my job in order to persure a career in audio and music and thought I would share that with your guys. hehe
Theres nothing wrong with looking for a job in the general music/arts field, I think this thread was aimed more towards being a dance producer/DJ. Obviously those areas you stated are sectors where you actually can make a living.
Like all arts jobs, the statistics are against you and you'll probably be scraping along on your ass for most of your life, but for some people that is better than burying their soul in 9-5 work. 
Man don't let JF get you down. Whilst I have a lot of respect for the man and he is a great DJ to work with, his posts can be somewhat too sobering at times. Sometimes even to the degree that he could be considered negative.
It is matter of fact but not everything is grim in the music business, and lets look at it for a moment. The group of Producers who were making the silly money back in the day are the same guys now who are still on top in terms of DJing and Producing. What we are seeing is an industry that is really tough to make it big in, living up to it's reputation of being really tough to break through.
The business landscape has changed but if you make the right track at the right time and the right person hears it, you may well find yourself on that road to fame.
Ultimately there are more people doing it and from that aspect it's harder, but still not impossible.
Besides for anyone out there who isn't both a DJ and Producer, your chances have always been pretty slim in comparison to someone who does both.
It's easier to sign to an agency if you have a few productions out there with a decent level of airplay.
With regards to Mister Conway... the path that you have chosen is different and probably a very wise one as you will get a lot of knowledge and create great contacts.
Cheers
Nem
some deep deep thinking going on here. nice read!
well first off being straight with the label you work with should be common sense. what J00F said goes for all business in all industries...you need to be honest and disciplined when working with people. its called being professional. he's probably running into unprofessional people more and more simply because there's so many young kids sending in tracks to labels now because of accessibility, and they have zero experience in business situations. everything they've learned, they've learned from TV and movies 
Lolo, you mentioned increased costs of bread etc. thats not a new phenomenon like the internet/mp3s imo, but I do agree it certainly contributes to the problems an artist has paying the bills simply because his/her wages/income haven't increased with the rate of inflation because the industry has gone belly-up.
also, mp3 sharing has certainly hurt the major labels. the big guys over here in the US are scrambling right now to figure out how to adapt. of course they didn't get hit or blindsided like the indie labels (cause of the amount of capital/assets they own). but when you've got major artists like madonna leaving the major labels in the dust nowadays, you know they're hurting, change is coming.
as for your question of why to we have to pay for this crisis? not sure if you mean we the indie labels or we the consumer...but either way its we who have created this pedestal for the commercial artists. its consumerism that has driven the progression from simple passionate music writing to huge labels controlling the airwaves. the labels could never have come this far without the consumers pumping money into them. they have nothing if the consumer decides to stop paying their money and stop paying attention to them. the major labels don't truly control the markets, in the end it is the consumer who has the control.
look at itunes as an example. 22% of all music sales in the U.S. is now done through itunes. its not because steve jobs is an evil businessman raping our natural resources. its because the latest generation (15-30 yr olds) has adopted the ipod as their go-to media player...even though there's wonderful alternative media players out there. apple simply has a cooler more consistent ad campaign compared to the practically non-existant ad campaigns put out by other companies. the consumer hasn't taken the time to research the media player market, they've decided that because ipod is in their face, it must be the best.
problem is most people don't take half a second to realize this and they'd rather bitch about major corporations controlling the world instead of getting together and changing things. hippie movement as not (for the most part) and will not be the force for change. there's too much emotion wrapped up in that world and not enough discipline and education.
I don't know how to solve this music industry issue, but luckily capitalism is fueled by competition in the markets which means a solution is bound to show up fairly fast compared to other methods for creating change. we'll see how things go.
good read... but damn, if J00F posted it in cOr, spelling police would have his ass!
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| As I mentioned before, anyone today has access to a PC and can release a track as a digital file, and to be honest there's a lot of cheap sounding rubbish music out there cluttering the shops and this is why record labels will always play and important roll. The A&R guys behind good labels have the ears to source talented producers and also ensure the finished tracks are produced, engineered and mastered to the highest quality. They will advise and guide you to the next level in your career, these guys could have the power to make or break a career and it's why you must respect them. Unfortunately this often doesn't happen as many newcomers come into this industry completely blind with ridicules expectations due to lack of knowledge. Every time I come back from a music conference I hear the same recurring stories of new producers hassling the labels they've signed tracks too because they're simply nieve to what's going on. |
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| Originally posted by aNYthing good read... but damn, if J00F posted it in cOr, spelling police would have his ass! |
. Personally I hate the spelling police types, it's ignorance, snobbery and often hypocrisy to the highest degree. Not everyone here has English as a first language, some may be dyslexic like myself.
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| Originally posted by aNYthing good read... but damn, if J00F posted it in cOr, spelling police would have his ass! |
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| Originally posted by echosystm it's the internet. cares? if you want to see some real illiteracy, head over to futureproducers.com (hip hop producer forum). |
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| Originally posted by emc^2 ooooooo, don't even get me started on FP - what a conglameration of lame bumpkins... not even mentioning that most of it dedicated to Hip Hop. Tho ocasionaly you get some really great gems like n00b axin why he can't get his $1300 Roland AX-7 to make any sound, even tho he hooked up with his $80 Monster MIDI cables to his sound blaster joystick port... and how come his Emagic AMT|8 SOUND MODULE is not making any sound, even when he hooked0r3d up his new AX-7 to it. (no joke). |
the best place to hang out if you don't know what to do :P
I had no problem understanding J00F's blog, so he must have a good grasp of the English language. I've seen much worse, we all have. Sometimes it's unreadable.
Futureproducers.com, eh? Never been there. Sounds awful though. I suppose they are all into "making beats". YO YO YO MF'ers. I just have no tolerance for the hip hop culture, or the music. True dat!
I can't stand DnB, it sounds like garbage to me, but ironically, I like speed metal. I think of DnB as the speed metal of EDM. Well, along with happy hardcore that is.
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| Originally posted by emc^2 ooooooo, don't even get me started on FP - what a conglameration of lame bumpkins... not even mentioning that most of it dedicated to Hip Hop. Tho ocasionaly you get some really great gems like n00b axin why he can't get his $1300 Roland AX-7 to make any sound, even tho he hooked up with his $80 Monster MIDI cables to his sound blaster joystick port... and how come his Emagic AMT|8 SOUND MODULE is not making any sound, even when he hooked0r3d up his new AX-7 to it. (no joke). |
if you're talented and innovative at what you do, you can make a great living doing anything :P
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