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| Originally posted by stevebutabi I see. Thanks again for the helpful advice. I'll try out a demo of Reason on my current Mac before I purchase Ableton or anything else. It only has 516MB of RAM though... will that cut it? |
Reason has everything you need in one. But you cant add anything extra to Reason.
Ableton has everything that Reason has apart from any synths. You buy these seperately (there are good free ones available as well). Operator could be one but I wouldnt recommend it for a beginner.
So if you buy Ableton and get a couple of synths, then you can do everything that Reason can do. You can then buy more synths and effects over time if you wish.
Some people like a program where they can add extra synths to it. Others prefer Reason for it simple all in one solution.
Like I've said, try both and then decide.
I'm having a rocking time with the Reason demo! It truly is easy to get started with it. I was really impressed how quickly I was able to lay down a decent sounding track.
I think I'll continue playing with it for a while, then give the Ableton demo a shout. On the Ab. website it says that there is an Operator demo included - I thought it wasn't. I guess I'll see!
Thanks again for the advice, really helpful 
http://www.tweakheadz.com/guide.htm
I think this could be of use to you.
If you want to go really cheap, I would get an Academic copy of Reason, it is half the price of the normal one. When you want to try rewiring into a VST-enabled host, download Reaper from www.reaper.fm. It is free to use, but after 30 days you have to wait a few seconds before it opens up (but it still functions FULLY). It is $40 to buy. 
It is still a great piece of software though, I'm on the edge of selling Cubase and using Reaper for everything.
Use your existing computer, don't buy a Mac just yet. Make sure, if you buy a mac, that you do it because of necessity. There isn't as much software out there for macs.
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| Originally posted by Eric J In addition, a mixing desk isn't going to do you much good without some hardware to plug into it. SO, if you are operating in a purely software environment, without any external hardware whatsoever, then the mixing desk will do nothing. |
I'd just say that mac isn't a neccessity, for the same $$ as you'd pay for a MBP, you get a monster, quad-core, multiGB ram, terrabyte HD, twin LCD screen pc, which will serve you a bit better when it comes to DAW's, some plugins/vsti are bitches when it comes to consuming resources... Even reason can prove too much even on a decent system with complex tracks (combinators with LOTS of synths and fx's), so an extra gb of ram and a extra proc core definitely can't hurt 
Just an opinion, no flaming whatsoever.
Reason is great to start with, just make sure you do the mixing in another app (like audition), beacuse the mixer in reason is crap, export each track one by one solo'd when you'll mix... If you don't believe me, give it a try
The general advice is of course take it easy, don't rush into anything, as you'll find it can prove difficult to transform the tune that's playing in your head into something speakers will play
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| Originally posted by Tarpex beacuse the mixer in reason is crap |
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| Originally posted by Tarpex Reason is great to start with, just make sure you do the mixing in another app (like audition), beacuse the mixer in reason is crap, export each track one by one solo'd when you'll mix... If you don't believe me, give it a try |
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| Originally posted by Rusty O'Hara Apart from wow the groupies you bring home? |
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| Originally posted by Eldritch Damnit, when will this myth die? Digital summing is pretty straightforward, especially if it's done in 32-bit floating point like Reason, Cubase, Logic etc. It's just as simple as 1 + 1. Do you really think propellerheads managed to screw that up? It's all in your head. |
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| Originally posted by Tarpex Then why the cleary audible difference in sound of the total export / track by track&mixed elsewhere? |
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| Originally posted by Tarpex Then why the cleary audible difference in sound of the total export / track by track&mixed elsewhere? |
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| Originally posted by Tarpex Then why the cleary audible difference in sound of the total export / track by track&mixed elsewhere? |
Jeez, it sounds less clear!
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| Originally posted by Tarpex Jeez, it sounds less clear! |
Suit yourself, i know what i've heard coming from the speakers :P
Of course you do.
Can't help.
Go with what works and what feels right. Ears are funny things. I've caught myself, tweaking an eq while mixing, making little adjustments and saying "yes, that sounds better now, then I'll change that here...okay, sounding good" - then, when I've needed a more major adjustment, realised that the eq wasn't even turned on! (I've heard other engineers mention this, it's amusing when it happens!)
In my experience, Reason sounded great when I was using it exclusively, then I bought some hardware and Ableton Live and it sounded...different...both due to the new sound sources as well as the different DAW. But then I trialled Cubase and my ears heard a remarkable difference. I can't speak for anyone else, but recording my synths through exactly the same hardware, they sounded better. I wasn't particularly keen to spend another chunk of money on Cubase but I couldn't go back on that gut feeling (I do love the mixing interface, maybe that introduced some subjective listening bias, but I'm not convinced)
So, yes - if you've given other software a fair, open-minded trial and your choice still sounds and feels better to you, then that's great. But you can't tell someone else to "unhear" what they've heard. Potentially I could go back to just using software, just using Reason, but I'd be doing so out of a sense of "seeing what I can do with self-imposed limitations" rather than a true feeling that that's the best way to realise my artistic vision. Heck, I love being able to see the actual audio, grab it, chop it, manipulate it, rather than have it contained in synths and samplers.
I think that the differences in actual audio engines aren't huge, but generally, the more Reason eqs or reverbs or other devices you use in a track, the more the track will take on the sonic characteristics of those devices. Same with ableton's eqs and effects, same with Cubase's. (I use a lot of Waves processors, so for better or worse, my tracks are coloured with the sound of those processors). My synths are the same - potentially, if you were to try and export a pure sine wave out of all of them, there might not be much difference, but if you're working with pure sine waves you're not going to go out and spend money on a hardware synth. The sound's going to be determined by the oscillators, yes, but also the filters and effects.
I could "kinda make a JP80x0 sound" with my Virus KC or Nord Lead 3 or Micro Q or Supernova II, but heck, it's easier to just turn on the JP8080. And the same in reverse. Otherwise it just sounds like a synth trying to sound like another synth. Every synth and effect, hardware and software, has a basic sonic character. Some of them have a much wider range than others, but underlying it all is the unit's basic character.
I don't think there's anything wrong with Reason's mixing algorithm. You take a piece of recorded music and run it straight from an NNXT into the Reason mixer and export it, no-one's going to be able to tell it's going through Reason. But if you start building up the use of the eqs, reverbs, choruses etc, more and more of their sonic character will come through.
I personally wouldn't use my Virus for the basses AND the pads AND the leads AND other sounds all in the same track, unless the moons happened to align right and it just so happened that I felt all the perfect sounds sitting in there. The Virus is extremely versatile and does all those things well, but if I used it for everything, the track, for better or worse, would sound incredibly virusey in character.
( Okay, I'm done. Every now and then people need to get things off their chest and this topic was the innocent victim! )
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| Originally posted by derail Go with what works and what feels right. Ears are funny things. I've caught myself, tweaking an eq while mixing, making little adjustments and saying "yes, that sounds better now, then I'll change that here...okay, sounding good" - then, when I've needed a more major adjustment, realised that the eq wasn't even turned on! (I've heard other engineers mention this, it's amusing when it happens!) |
there is actually considerable diference in the preceived quality relating to different audio engines, and how they are programmed.
I switched from Cubase SX to Neundo and to my amazement found far lower latency with Nuendo (i.e. I could use a much lower buffer setting for many-track projects) on exactly the same hardware and computer set-up. But then I started thinking that my projects (compatible) sounded slightly different, as if I has adjusted the acoustic treatment in my room, or slightly altered the speaker position. It sounded (subjectively of course) "better". This wasn't just beacuse fo the latency issue (the tracks being tighter etc) - the tops sounded a touch crisper and my bass sounded muddier, which actually let me roll of frequencies/remove harmonics that i had left in acidentally. I could be totally wrong, but I've heard a couple of people now havning similar experiences.
a while back, there was also, an investgation in to the sonic differences of sequencers (it was logic vs. cubase/nuendo in SOS I think) and the results were noticeable and recordable.
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