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-- Trance Chord progressions? is there such a thing
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Originally posted by mysticalninja What no britney? Think you're too good for britney spears? Lol jk.

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Horse Bassline = Oopma Oopma Bad analogy = Bad. Whatever. There will always be people who listen to music for how it sounds (me) and people who listen to it because of the technical complexity and the image of intelligence it portrays (you). I'll take my candy sugar cereal. (even though that analogy was horrible and THE most pompous thing i've heard in my life) Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go get hyphy.

I don't see what was wrong with his analogy. You keep referring to it as "technical complexity" but it has nothing to do with that. Some products or works of art are simply aimed at a narrower audience; that does not make them pretentious, nor does it make the audience a bunch of hipsters. It can, but that's not a given.

Kraft Dinner sells on a wider scale than fresh pasta. More people eat at your local McDonald's or Taco Bell than at the sushi bars or authentic Mexican restaurants. If you think that the customers in the second group are just trying to look sophisticated, then you really ought to be taken out and shot. These are all technically "food", but that makes about as much sense as saying that country and gangsta rap are all technically "music". They represent completely different business models, cultures, and target audiences.

If you don't like the food analogy, then just pick some other type of art. Any back issue of Hustler magazine will probably appeal to a wider audience today than nude paintings from the impressionistic period, but in spite of the superficial similarities, you're really comparing apples and oranges there. People don't buy paintings for the same reason that they buy porn. In the same vein, people don't go out searching for obscure music for the same reason that other people listen to Fiddy Cent. If you're looking for a hook-up, you go with mainstream rap; if you want to heighten the sensation from your drug cocktail, you pick trance or house, and if you just want to bust your best moves, you go with breaks or maybe the more underground rap.

You ought to understand this very well with your Bay Area culture that's all about the "stupid". Why not just listen to regular gangsta rap, buy regular Fubu clothes, speak the regular hip-hop slang and go to regular hip-hop clubs? That's what pretty much everybody else in North America does and is quite satisfied with, and quite frankly, they all think that you Hephies are a bunch of pretentious fucknuts who are so obsessed with being different that you don't care whether or not your shit is actually any good.

Not that I agree with them - I'm just sayin'. Almost everybody has their passions, their hobbies, where they take a deeper interest than the fluff that gets exposed on the mass market. That alone does not make them pretentious; it's only when they start to thumb their noses at the unwashed masses for not rejecting the "commercial crap" that it becomes pretentious.

And yeah, it's a late reply and the original post was probably just taking the piss. Sue me, I've been away.

Many music styles have a particular sound by way of chord progression, just listen to a lot of rock music but you get people breaking the routine all the time.
Doesn't mean one is wrong or right. Sure there is a quite a common chord progression in a lot of tracks but you also have a lot that have great variation.

But your friend needs to give trance another listen as there are a lot of tracks out there that don't use the formula as well. It all comes down to the musical knowledge and song writing ability of the composer at the end of the day, but also a question of if it sounds good or not.

Sure, AFG has been done to death, but that's not a trance thing, that's all music. Your hear it everywhere you go. If someone is starting out playing keyboard it's probably one of the first pleasing combinations they well find for themselves. It's all white keys and it's simple.

Take typical Blues chords, if you play a pentatonic scale in lets say E, you will find the switch to A natural for that type of music. Then go to B. Back to A and then back to E. Standard formula for basic blues but people are still writing tracks like that and it works.

At the end of the day it's always good to branch out and try new stuff, keeps the learning experience going.

You can get some nice results with suspended chords and accidentals too.

As for the other discussion... gah!

Cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by DigiNut I don't see what was wrong with his analogy. You keep referring to it as "technical complexity" but it has nothing to do with that. Some products or works of art are simply aimed at a narrower audience; that does not make them pretentious, nor does it make the audience a bunch of hipsters. It can, but that's not a given. Kraft Dinner sells on a wider scale than fresh pasta. More people eat at your local McDonald's or Taco Bell than at the sushi bars or authentic Mexican restaurants. If you think that the customers in the second group are just trying to look sophisticated, then you really ought to be taken out and shot. These are all technically "food", but that makes about as much sense as saying that country and gangsta rap are all technically "music". They represent completely different business models, cultures, and target audiences. If you don't like the food analogy, then just pick some other type of art. Any back issue of Hustler magazine will probably appeal to a wider audience today than nude paintings from the impressionistic period, but in spite of the superficial similarities, you're really comparing apples and oranges there. People don't buy paintings for the same reason that they buy porn. In the same vein, people don't go out searching for obscure music for the same reason that other people listen to Fiddy Cent. If you're looking for a hook-up, you go with mainstream rap; if you want to heighten the sensation from your drug cocktail, you pick trance or house, and if you just want to bust your best moves, you go with breaks or maybe the more underground rap. You ought to understand this very well with your Bay Area culture that's all about the "stupid". Why not just listen to regular gangsta rap, buy regular Fubu clothes, speak the regular hip-hop slang and go to regular hip-hop clubs? That's what pretty much everybody else in North America does and is quite satisfied with, and quite frankly, they all think that you Hephies are a bunch of pretentious fucknuts who are so obsessed with being different that you don't care whether or not your shit is actually any good. Not that I agree with them - I'm just sayin'. Almost everybody has their passions, their hobbies, where they take a deeper interest than the fluff that gets exposed on the mass market. That alone does not make them pretentious; it's only when they start to thumb their noses at the unwashed masses for not rejecting the "commercial crap" that it becomes pretentious. And yeah, it's a late reply and the original post was probably just taking the piss. Sue me, I've been away.

Well said.

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut I don't see what was wrong with his analogy. You keep referring to it as "technical complexity" but it has nothing to do with that. Some products or works of art are simply aimed at a narrower audience; that does not make them pretentious, nor does it make the audience a bunch of hipsters. It can, but that's not a given. Kraft Dinner sells on a wider scale than fresh pasta. More people eat at your local McDonald's or Taco Bell than at the sushi bars or authentic Mexican restaurants. If you think that the customers in the second group are just trying to look sophisticated, then you really ought to be taken out and shot. These are all technically "food", but that makes about as much sense as saying that country and gangsta rap are all technically "music". They represent completely different business models, cultures, and target audiences. If you don't like the food analogy, then just pick some other type of art. Any back issue of Hustler magazine will probably appeal to a wider audience today than nude paintings from the impressionistic period, but in spite of the superficial similarities, you're really comparing apples and oranges there. People don't buy paintings for the same reason that they buy porn. In the same vein, people don't go out searching for obscure music for the same reason that other people listen to Fiddy Cent. If you're looking for a hook-up, you go with mainstream rap; if you want to heighten the sensation from your drug cocktail, you pick trance or house, and if you just want to bust your best moves, you go with breaks or maybe the more underground rap. You ought to understand this very well with your Bay Area culture that's all about the "stupid". Why not just listen to regular gangsta rap, buy regular Fubu clothes, speak the regular hip-hop slang and go to regular hip-hop clubs? That's what pretty much everybody else in North America does and is quite satisfied with, and quite frankly, they all think that you Hephies are a bunch of pretentious fucknuts who are so obsessed with being different that you don't care whether or not your shit is actually any good. Not that I agree with them - I'm just sayin'. Almost everybody has their passions, their hobbies, where they take a deeper interest than the fluff that gets exposed on the mass market. That alone does not make them pretentious; it's only when they start to thumb their noses at the unwashed masses for not rejecting the "commercial crap" that it becomes pretentious. And yeah, it's a late reply and the original post was probably just taking the piss. Sue me, I've been away.

Umm I most definitely consider ganster rap and country music. ....get off your fucking high horse.

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people don't go out searching for obscure music for the same reason that other people listen to Fiddy Cent.

You're right they don't, but I don't think either of those people do either of those things for the music. People listen to 50 cent because he's hardcore, he's the real deal, he really did all the things he talks about etc, and people go out and look for obscure music no ones heard of because of the "oh somethings popular ill be different and not like it" mentallity that seems to be expanding with each generation.

And the food analogy where you compare musical tastes with healthy food vs junk food is THE most ridiculous analogy I may of ever heard.

quote:

Originally posted by Sanguis Mortuum Well said.

Heh you're such a mindless follower. That's why you don't understand compression beyond the basic textbook definition.

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Originally posted by DigiNut Any back issue of Hustler magazine will probably appeal to a wider audience today than nude paintings from the impressionistic period, but in spite of the superficial similarities, you're really comparing apples and oranges there. People don't buy paintings for the same reason that they buy porn.

I thought porn was art....

Traditionally, people did buy paintings for the same reason as porn. There is a definite erotic aspect that you can't deny in a lot of art. I don't think you should sideline thatq.

But; back to the original topic! In all music there are favoured progressions E > A > B is one of the most standard, but there is so much room to maneuver even there, you can go from delta blues to hard rock to melodic pop rock and back again. So a "trance" chord progression is really not worth thinking about!

Im not actually a trance producer so can someone give me an example of a classic trance chord progression?

Does the average trance tune use say a 3 chord progression, to form the pads or arp pattern?

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Originally posted by Head Grit Im not actually a trance producer so can someone give me an example of a classic trance chord progression? Does the average trance tune use say a 3 chord progression, to form the pads or arp pattern?

Probably not actually, I would say at least 4, but often repeated and then the second time round there will be a variation in the progression. But you also frequently get other variations too.

You will also find that the age of the trance can make a difference but usually only in complexity of the over all track. Probably the think that changed on that front is the percussion and bass. But these are just my ramblings.

cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by mysticalninja And the food analogy where you compare musical tastes with healthy food vs junk food is THE most ridiculous analogy I may of ever heard.

Looks like you missed the point of the analogy. It wasn't about healthiness vs. unhealthiness or "bad taste" vs. "good taste." I don't think that popular music is bad because it's popular, but it does need to be immediately accessible in order to be popular: otherwise it wouldn't be liked by the millions of people who generally have little more than a mild, passing interest in music. But being immediately accessible doesn't necessarily make something bad.

The analogy was about something that's easily accessible to someone who doesn't know much music and hasn't experienced a very wide variety of it, and things that might take more experience or knowledge to appreciate. "Milk" would fit just as well in place of "sugary cereal."

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Umm I most definitely consider ganster rap and country music. ....get off your fucking high horse.

Way to dismiss everything with a single pointless oneliner.

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Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Way to dismiss everything with a single pointless oneliner.

Sorry, when someone says ganster rap/country isn't music, it's hard for me to pay attention to anything else they say.

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"Milk" would fit just as well in place of "sugary cereal."

Recent studies show milk isn't as good for you as it was previously thought of, and may actually be bad for you. The 'drink lots of milk' idea thats been with americans since early 50's is also now thought of to be contributing to the american "beer belly" and why so many americans are overweight.

Anyway, I think I like the art analogy better. As the analogy is between two things that are both subjective and purely opinion. Much better.

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Probably not actually, I would say at least 4, but often repeated and then the second time round there will be a variation in the progression. But you also frequently get other variations too. Nem

I'd say 3 actually, and for the variation sometimes a fourth.

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Umm I most definitely consider ganster rap and country music. ....get off your fucking high horse. You're right they don't, but I don't think either of those people do either of those things for the music. People listen to 50 cent because he's hardcore, he's the real deal, he really did all the things he talks about etc, and people go out and look for obscure music no ones heard of because of the "oh somethings popular ill be different and not like it" mentallity that seems to be expanding with each generation. And the food analogy where you compare musical tastes with healthy food vs junk food is THE most ridiculous analogy I may of ever heard.

How about actually reading what I wrote, thinking about it, understanding it, and responding appropriately, instead of totally ignoring the content and just repeating what you said before?

Everything you've written here has already been addressed in the post above. If your claim is that I said 50 cent and country music are not music, then it shows pretty clearly that you aren't actually listening to what other people have to say, you're just being belligerent (and ignorant).

I'd suggest you reread, lest you come across as a dolt - not that it's ever stopped you before.

Edit: To clarify, in case you're still having problems, the whole point of the post was that country music and gangsta rap ARE both "music", but just because they can both be defined using that term does not mean that they have anything significant in common. Hence the analogies with food (yes, KD really is food) and art (self-explanatory I think). I could just as well say that a TV and an alarm clock are both "appliances", and screw all those pretentious bastards who can't be satisfied with an alarm clock and have to get an expensive TV instead. Get it?

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Originally posted by DigiNut Edit: To clarify, in case you're still having problems, the whole point of the post was that country music and gangsta rap ARE both "music", but just because they can both be defined using that term does not mean that they have anything significant in common. Hence the analogies with food (yes, KD really is food) and art (self-explanatory I think). I could just as well say that a TV and an alarm clock are both "appliances", and screw all those pretentious bastards who can't be satisfied with an alarm clock and have to get an expensive TV instead. Get it?

No. I don't get it at all. That analogy is even more retarded. You're just going downhill with this argument now. You're arguing semantics now? You just implied 50 cent and Country aren't really music not like your stuff they're just called that even though there is nothing significant in common. Come on man, are you just egging me on?

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Originally posted by DigiNut How about actually reading what I wrote, thinking about it, understanding it, and responding appropriately, instead of totally ignoring the content and just repeating what you said before?

I understand it perfectly, your music is a tv and mine is an alarm clock and it takes a higher than average level of intelligence to appreciate your music, which is obviously why the masses don't listen to it. Fuck you. Converstaion over. I bid you good day sir.

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Originally posted by mysticalninja No. I don't get it at all. That analogy is even more retarded. You're just going downhill with this argument now. You're arguing semantics now? You just implied 50 cent and Country aren't really music not like your stuff they're just called that even though there is nothing significant in common. Come on man, are you just egging me on?

Hey mysticalninja,

I'm not trying to rattle your cage but seriously, he didn't actually imply in his post that Gangsta Rap and country weren't music. He was just making the point that it's not comparing like for like because the differences outweigh the similarities that's all.

With regards to the 3 chord thing though, I can think of a whole heap of tracks that have at least 4 or more so it's definately not a given concept.


Cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by Nemesis44 Hey mysticalninja, I'm not trying to rattle your cage but seriously, he didn't actually imply in his post that Gangsta Rap and country weren't music. He was just making the point that it's not comparing like for like because the differences outweigh the similarities that's all.

That's all? that's alittle different than saying my music is like porn/junk food while his is healthy food/sophisticated art/too complex for the masses.

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Originally posted by mysticalninja Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to go get hyphy.

word man word....!!! WORDDDD,i like the way this guy thinks!

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Originally posted by mysticalninja That's all? that's alittle different than saying my music is like porn/junk food while his is healthy food/sophisticated art/too complex for the masses.

I don't think he specifically stated which music was equivalent to junk food etc. but I might have missed something. The way I read it was more along the lines of it's ok to like it even if it's popular, and the real issue he had was with people turning their nose up at it for that reason.

Damn, wish my music was like porn though...

Maybe I missed something.

Cheers
Nem

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Originally posted by mysticalninja That's all? that's alittle different than saying my music is like porn/junk food while his is healthy food/sophisticated art/too complex for the masses.

It was never a comparison of Good vs. Bad, or Simple vs. Complex, or Sophisticated vs. Puerile. It's simply Popular vs. Fringe. I can't help it if Skittles are more popular than Cream of Broccoli Soup, or if Jenna Jameson's lesbian porn is more popular than Monet landscapes. That's just the way it is.

One could reason that the popular products are better in quality, otherwise they wouldn't be so popular. Flawed reasoning of course, but it's just to illustrate the absurdity of the conclusions you're jumping to.

If you'd care to find a few examples of where the mass-marketed products are "better" than the indie/rare versions, I'd be more than happy to use those instead. VHS vs. Betamax is a good example of where the more popular product was actually better, but that's pretty useless as an analogy to music/art.

But it's a pointless tangent anyway, because once again, I wasn't discussing the quality or merits of these things. They're simply aimed at a different audience. Different people want and consume them for entirely different reasons; therefore, just because several things may qualify as "music" or "art" or "food", does not mean that there's any legitimate and practical form of comparison between them.

Again, I'd ask you to actually listen to what other people have to say, rather than cursing at them and restating your own false assertions.

I'm listening, you're not. You're the one restating your false assertions. Now I believe I said good day.

digi you ever thizz bfroe?

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Originally posted by mysticalninja I'm listening, you're not. You're the one restating your false assertions. Now I believe I said good day.

"LA LA LA LA LA I'M NOT LISTENING NA NA NA NA NA"

I whole heartedly agree with this analogy. Most people don't eat good food and go to fancy resturants, they're satisfied with fast food junk. That's exactly the same reason the masses listen to what they do. Not because it's catchy, well produced, sounds good etc. No not at all. The analogy is flawless. The average masses just don't listen to music for the same reason I do, just because my music and the masses are both 'qualified' as music doesn't mean there is any legitimate comparison between my music and theirs!

Ah, looks like somebody else has dropped by to miss the point. Or maybe it's just a ninja in disguise.

Different products, different audiences. Some things take a little experience or getting used to in order to enjoy them, others don't. That doesn't mean that one is "better" or "worse" in some absolute sense. Either a piece of music moves you or it doesn't. That's the important thing.

No I get the point! Different products for different audiences. Some products are for those with musical knowledge others aren't. I totally agree, the average listener out there just doesn't have enough musical experience to appreciate my music!

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