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I'm very glad that they eased up the restrictions for guarantors. Particularly when you are just renewing your passport, why do you need someone else to confirm you are a Canadian citizen when you have your OLD passport? I don't think this will cause any more fraud than there already is.

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Originally posted by tatgirl I've been trying to get landed residency for 7 yrs. If its not one thing, its another. I've already applied twice, and now Graham's history blocked us. Back of the line again for me. (I'm aiming to break a Canadian record at this point).

It helps if you're fleeing some dirt-poor country that's in perpetual civil war. Have you tried making up a name like "Kreplachistan" and claiming that it's actually an island located in a previously-unexplored part of the Pacific ocean, and saying that you left because you were tired of being forced to eat babies?

I think that sounded funnier in your head.

well, i just went to get my passport renewed, and found it actually a lot easier than i thought.....if you were issued a passport after Jan. 1 2002 and havent had it lost or stolen, you dont even need any guarantors or signatures at all when you renew.....they just need two contacts that they can call if they want to verify who you are etc......still costs $87, which sucks, but what are you gonna do...

fyi

T.

Re: Canadian Passport: New guarantor policy in effect

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Originally posted by Chris Allen Source: HERE

These statistics are f*cking BS
Two summers ago I went to visit my family in Poland like I do almost every year so I am familiar with the process. I did not have a Canadian Passport - I had been travelling with my Polish passport for the past 16 years. I have been a full Canadian citizen since I was 3 and have never had any need to apply for a Canadian passport because I only travel to and from Europe.
Summer 2006 - my flight back was as follows:

Warsaw - Vienna
1 hour stop-over
Vienna - Toronto

The one hour stop-over turned into 3 days of hell.
Apparently the Canadian embassy issued new regulations that any traveller wishing to enter Canada MUST hold a Canadian passport. I did not have a Canadian passport, nor was I informed that I needed one until I was at the f*cking gate in the Vienna airport and being told that I am not allowed to board the plane. Nevermind the fact that I have been living in Canada for 17 years, am a full-time student and had every piece of i.d. on me that you could imagine.
I was then forced to apply for a temporary passport at the Canadian Embassy in Vienna - along with 15 other people in the same predicament (the process took 72 hours and cost me around $2000 - passport application, hotel, flight rebooking fee)

Bottom line: Dual citizens of Europe AND Canada are being FORCED to apply for Canadian passports because of "new security measures". These stats are based on the hundreds of thousands of EU Nationals who have been forced to apply for Canadian passports DESPITE the fact that they are WORKING CITIZENS of Canada. Way to go Immigration Canada *shakes head*

Better security measure would be to get rid of dual citizenship all together

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Originally posted by EvilTree Better security measure would be to get rid of dual citizenship all together

how's that a better security measure? if someone shady needs to get into a country, they'll do it regardless the single/dual/triple citizenship policy

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew how's that a better security measure? if someone shady needs to get into a country, they'll do it regardless the single/dual/triple citizenship policy

easier to keep track of people, if you want to keep track of your citizens globally by your citizens using your country's passport

i also don't like the fact that people profess to be loyal to more than one country. heavens help if you have a conflict of interest later on

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Originally posted by EvilTree i also don't like the fact that people profess to be loyal to more than one country. heavens help if you have a conflict of interest later on

nothing strange about that
if you're born in one country (where you're a citizen by birth, and do not have to profess anything), but moved here and got the citizenship and everything, but still visit the homeland, it's so much easier in terms of traveling, passport controls etc etc

it's not like the countries are in a state of war, or you'd be selling national security secrets, it's just a matter of convenience

the best dual citizenship would probably be a British/Canadian one, I'd love to have it

I know for sure if I'd go back to Ukraine with a Canadian passport, I'd get much more hassle at the passport control check, just because they'd think I'm a foreigner

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Originally posted by tatgirl ON a side note, I just got a new US passport yesterday- it feels so 'thick'- I swear there's some serious hardware hidden in those pages now.

There is. My new US passport has a smart chip will all sorts of fun information on it!

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Originally posted by EvilTree Better security measure would be to get rid of dual citizenship all together

Better still would be if Immigration Canada kept its nose in CANADIAN IMMIGRATION. Citizens of Canada are, by official definition, just that. Not immigrants, but citizens. In spite of the fact that you are not a born Canadian, upon receiving the status of Canadian National, that title overrides the "immigrant" label - officially.
My parents are total FOBs and I embrace that

Having dual citizenship is a wicked advantage - I wouldn't give it up for anything. It makes travel 100% easier and opens up all kinds of career options. I don't see an issue with security here at all; I can visit my family without having to apply for a Visa, I stand in shorter lines at the airport, and I have the comfort of knowing that I can peace out to europe whenever I want.

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Originally posted by Ania_xox Better still would be if Immigration Canada kept its nose in CANADIAN IMMIGRATION. Citizens of Canada are, by official definition, just that. Not immigrants, but citizens. In spite of the fact that you are not a born Canadian, upon receiving the status of Canadian National, that title overrides the "immigrant" label - officially. My parents are total FOBs and I embrace that Having dual citizenship is a wicked advantage - I wouldn't give it up for anything. It makes travel 100% easier and opens up all kinds of career options. I don't see an issue with security here at all; I can visit my family without having to apply for a Visa, I stand in shorter lines at the airport, and I have the comfort of knowing that I can peace out to europe whenever I want.

curious. what is your definition of 'citizenship'?

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Originally posted by EvilTree curious. what is your definition of 'citizenship'?

a little card that lets me into places

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Originally posted by Ania_xox a little card that lets me into places

lol. i figured as much (and you're not alone in thinking like this)

I feel a Great Yohan rant coming, but I gotta get ready for work.

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Originally posted by EvilTree lol. i figured as much (and you're not alone in thinking like this) I feel a Great Yohan rant coming, but I gotta get ready for work.

I had a feeling that you expected such an answer so i gave it lol
I have deeper thoughts on what "citizenship" actually stands for, in terms of cultural identity. I have to get going as well though... I will rant later.

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Originally posted by Ania_xox I had a feeling that you expected such an answer so i gave it lol

i actually was expecting a more serious answer

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Originally posted by Ania_xox Having dual citizenship is a wicked advantage

For you, yes. For the country, it's a complete disaster.

And they were warning people about the new passport policy for over a year. I travelled a couple of times in '06 and '07 with just a birth certificate and driver's license, and every time I got the passport speech at the check-in.

Of course immigration policy doesn't apply to citizens, but in order for that to work, they have to, er, know who the citizens are, which means they need a valid ID. Policy is that a passport is now the only valid form of ID at the border. Durrrrrr...

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Originally posted by DigiNut For you, yes. For the country, it's a complete disaster. How so? When I'm in Canada - I'm Canadian. When I'm in Poland - I'm Polish. My Canadian citizenship has nothing to do with Poland. My Polish citizenship has nothing to do with Canada. And they were warning people about the new passport policy for over a year. I travelled a couple of times in '06 and '07 with just a birth certificate and driver's license, and every time I got the passport speech at the check-in. Funny. I did the exact same flight arrangement with the same stopover in Vienna just 10 months prior and I hadn't heard a damn thing. But yes, they told me at the airport that it had been in effect as of January 2006. Of course immigration policy doesn't apply to citizens, but in order for that to work, they have to, er, know who the citizens are, which means they need a valid ID. Policy is that a passport is now the only valid form of ID at the border. Durrrrrr...

Forgive me Immigration Canada, but I was under the impression that my Canadian Citizenship card is valid proof of my, er, Canadian citizenship New rules are bull... I can't think of a reason why but I'm sure there is a fat, bald guy somewhere collecting cash out of all of this.

uhhhh
i just f*cked up that post
lol sorry

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Originally posted by DigiNut For you, yes. For the country, it's a complete disaster. And they were warning people about the new passport policy for over a year. I travelled a couple of times in '06 and '07 with just a birth certificate and driver's license, and every time I got the passport speech at the check-in. Of course immigration policy doesn't apply to citizens, but in order for that to work, they have to, er, know who the citizens are, which means they need a valid ID. Policy is that a passport is now the only valid form of ID at the border. Durrrrrr...

sorry Digi, how is that related to having dual citizenship?

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Originally posted by StereoPrincess this is absolutely ridiculous!! any joe shmoe can sign your applications!?! the reason for the previous rules was that if you choose to be a guarantor for someone, you better think hard about it because you can lose your job (lawyer, doctor, professor). Now, I can open a gurantor service because i have a passport? crazy!

TOTALLY agree...yet this Minister is boasting about how good a job he's done by making it easier

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Originally posted by EvilTree Better security measure would be to get rid of dual citizenship all together

Maybe if you ran around collecting them or something, but for people who genuinely require both - say if their partner is from another country, and they need equal rights (ability to work etc.) in both places - I don't think this is wise.

It comes down to individual circumstances, and getting rid of dual citizenship I think would be more of a hinderance than anything as there is a plethora of the population that requires it for practical reasons and uses it responsibly.

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Originally posted by Irishaddict Maybe if you ran around collecting them or something

I hope to be one of those people.
On a side note-
Just got my settlement visa (equivalent to landed immigrancy) to the UK yesterday. A SIMPLE application form w/basic supporting documents, $1050 fee & a 45 min wait later, and I'm now free to live in the UK for 2 yrs, work and get national health care. Shockingly simple in comparison to getting into Canada or the US. No months or years of waiting, no application hoops to jump thru, no background check or nothing. Unbelievable, but refreshingly enjoyable considering the crap I've been going thru w/Canada all these years.

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Originally posted by tatgirl I hope to be one of those people. On a side note- Just got my settlement visa (equivalent to landed immigrancy) to the UK yesterday. A SIMPLE application form w/basic supporting documents, $1050 fee & a 45 min wait later, and I'm now free to live in the UK for 2 yrs, work and get national health care. Shockingly simple in comparison to getting into Canada or the US. No months or years of waiting, no application hoops to jump thru, no background check or nothing. Unbelievable, but refreshingly enjoyable considering the crap I've been going thru w/Canada all these years.

Congrats Nats!! Happy to hear that girl!! xo

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Originally posted by FunkyCrew sorry Digi, how is that related to having dual citizenship?

The first line was unrelated to the rest. The rest was a response to an earlier post.

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Originally posted by Ania_xox uhhhh i just f*cked up that post lol sorry

Sure did. I'll give it my best shot though.

I said that dual citizenship is great for you, and you've responded by confirming that, yes, it is great for you. Surely it's not that hard to see how it's an organizational, not to mention legal and enforcement nightmare for authorities in both countries.

For a perfect example, look no further than the Lebanese "dual citizens" who all flocked to Canada last year during the short-lived war, received tons of help and financial aid from the Canadian government, and immediately flew back 2 weeks later, never to return or pay a single cent in taxes. In other words, we were a bomb shelter. This is good for Canada... how?

Further to all of this, you seem to have some misunderstanding of the consequences of dual citizenship. You say: "When I'm in Canada - I'm Canadian. When I'm in Poland - I'm Polish." That's actually not how it works. If you have a dual citizenship, both countries are entitled to enforce their own laws regardless of which country you are actually in at a given time. Whether or not they are physically able to enforce those laws is another question, but you do not magically stop being Canadian when you are in Poland. There's also a specific requirement in almost every country allowing dual citizenship that dual nationals have to use their passport to enter and leave the country. I'm actually surprised that you were surprised.

Onto the next point, it was actually official airport policy since 2006 to warn people without passports about the upcoming changes, so I suppose if you weren't warned, then the people you dealt with (in Canada, not Vienna) didn't do their jobs. Incompetent airport staff - annoying but hardly surprising. Most people found out somehow, and that's why Passport Canada has been so backlogged; everybody knew that they'd need to get a passport, so everybody applied at the same time. It sucks for you that you somehow didn't get the memo and I'm sorry to hear that you went through so much trouble because of it, but, well, shit happens, and the changes had been made public for some time. Don't blame the system.

As for your citizenship card, it's not allowed for the same reason our birth certificates are not allowed. It's valid ID, but it's not a valid travel document. Yes, Canada used to allow that, and Canada was also one of the few countries that did; hardly any other country has ever allowed traveling without a passport because (a) it's completely insecure, and (b) it creates much more work for the government to keep track of when you're entering and leaving the country.

Again - it sucks what happened to you, but nothing about it strikes me as "bullshit". Almost all of the recent changes have been positive ones.

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Originally posted by Irishaddict for people who genuinely require both... I don't think this is wise.

Security and convenience are mutually exclusive. I'm sure it would help a lot of people who travel in a time crunch to do away with customs and immigration altogether, and would probably save millions if not billions of dollars in the Canadian economy, but it's a necessary evil that we put up with because of the very real risks associated with open borders.

Dual citizenship is a security risk. It's very difficult to enforce your laws in another country. If the authorities in said other country refuse to cooperate, it may be impossible to even find a dual citizen. And while some people may be genuinely helped by it (I don't believe any genuinely "needs" it), there's obviously no reliable way to differentiate between those ones and the ones who will cause trouble.

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