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-- futurism: passed?
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For better or worse, Western art has situated itself on a time scale for the past four hundred years or so, each artist priding himself on innovation or besting his predecessors in some way. I doubt that this will change any time soon.

re: table thing

Yeah that's cool, I think we've all seen it by now...

but is that going to create a subculture that produces music, clothing, art, new building paradigms just because you can turn a cube around and make fancy patterns?

Subcultures have retreated to the Internet. There's less friction online.

@isoterra -

you're missing my point, which is that there has been a shift in outlook from liberal to conservative, from experiment to marketability, from a futuristic, optimistic outlook, to a historicist, cynical outlook...

i mentioned in my reply that the problem is that too many people are focused on the sound rather than the process and the technology, the culture, the motives, etc.

I agree that there is far too much emphasis on a superficial level of an 'innovative' sound. That's my critique too - that's why we get imploding subgenres.

If that's the central thrust of that article, it could have done without the meandering statements of the bleeding obvious on a variety of subjects.

It begs the question: do we become less interested in futurism the more technology advances? Is that really true? Surely the concept of the "future" is inherently unreachable, as no matter how far we advance, what we cannot do remains futuristic? Futurism just keeps moving onwards. Perhaps 80s and 90s conceptions of futurism have become uninteresting, just like the sci-fi of the 50s now looks painful, but that doesn't mean there's no appeal in futurism anymore. We just need to find a new musical expression of it.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It begs the question: do we become less interested in futurism the more technology advances? Is that really true?

Not less interested in the future in general, just in specific visions of it.

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Subcultures have retreated to the Internet. There's less friction online.

Seriously, though. How did furries find one another before there were Internet message boards and mailing lists?

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Not less interested in the future in general, just in specific visions of it.

Exactly. What was futuristic in the 1980s is no longer, as technology moves on. Just as what was cutting edge in the 1950s (space travel, nuclear power) is no longer interesting in this way.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If that's the central thrust of that article, it could have done without the meandering statements of the bleeding obvious on a variety of subjects. It begs the question: do we become less interested in futurism the more technology advances? Is that really true? Surely the concept of the "future" is inherently unreachable, as no matter how far we advance, what we cannot do remains futuristic? Futurism just keeps moving onwards. Perhaps 80s and 90s conceptions of futurism have become uninteresting, just like the sci-fi of the 50s now looks painful, but that doesn't mean there's no appeal in futurism anymore. We just need to find a new musical expression of it.

I don't think so - it just means something different. That is the essential question I am asking in the thread though - what is the musical expression? not that I can really expect anyone to answer, but...

I do feel, however, that there is not as much appeal for futurism in the world at large. I think most people are concerned with convienence and entertainment.


I think jivebojingles might have hit it when he started talking about furries.

Maybe the latest technological developments just aren't predisposed towards music.

Maybe I am missing all the innovation because it is not obvious. Maybe it's in internet partnerships, maybe it is the global consciousness itself that I am criticizing.

I might just be actually anti-futurist here, not wanting to accept the inevitable that everything will become the same

quote:

What was futuristic in the 1980s is no longer, as technology moves on. Just as what was cutting edge in the 1950s (space travel, nuclear power) is no longer interesting in this way.

I suppose we ought to choose a new futuristic vision for trance then. What should it include? Robots? Post-apocalyptic bands of warriors?

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It begs the question: do we become less interested in futurism the more technology advances? Is that really true?

Not futurism writ large; futurism in dance music.

The techno aesthetic used to be tied up in the edginess of electronic music-making. That coldness of the machine doesn't resonate much anymore.

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles I suppose we ought to choose a new futuristic vision for trance then. What should it include? Robots? Post-apocalyptic bands of warriors?

Perhaps trance was the 90s' vision of futurism, like house was the 80s'. Interesting that the 00s haven't yet seen a genuinely new genre emerge in electronic music. The 80s gave us house and techno and the 90s gave us trance and jungle, but the 00s? Perhaps there's no futurism any more because the musicians out there are cock suckers of history and have too much reverence for what's gone before them.

Really, I think a big part of the "cocksuckers of history" phenomenon and the feeling that "everything has been done" is that the rise of digital EDM stores and p2p sharing have extended the collective memory of the electronic music scene far beyond what it would otherwise have been.

Heh.

I couldn't read it, im too stupid with my ipod

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Really, I think a big part of the "cocksuckers of history" phenomenon and the feeling that "everything has been done" is that the rise of digital EDM stores and p2p sharing have extended the collective memory of the electronic music scene far beyond what it would otherwise have been. Heh.

Maybe what we need to do is lock every potential producer in a solitary cage with a bunch of equipment. Make up your own music with no influences, cocksucker.

Really interesting discussion (100x better than the usual shit on this forum), but I have nothing relevant to add.

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Originally posted by noikeee Maybe what we need to do is lock every potential producer in a solitary cage with a bunch of equipment.

The results might be interesting. You'd probably end up with a lot of angst-filled music, though.

And we'd probably need to lock them up for years so that their music taste could mature, and their experience at producing music could increase.

Sounds like fun, let's do it.

isolation is not the key to innovation

innovation always comes from contact with other people, a reappropriation of ideas




there's still new and innovative stuff coming out, but we are desensitized to it.

I think the real culprits in this are the people who patronize the scene. And they can't really be helped for the most part, especially those just getting into it. When I liked epic trance I had no idea I was contributing to the demise of a cultural era.

Maybe it has to do with the fact that there are less freaks in the scene, and more self-consciousness and narcissism.. or rather mabe a similar number of freaks but dwarfed by the rest of the culture.

And some of the leaders who used to be freaks now need agents to program voting software for magazine polls and to take campy fashion shots on beaches, in front of brick walls and urban textures, and in venice, because for whatever reason they are trying to reach other audiences.

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Originally posted by nefardec Maybe it has to do with the fact that there are less freaks in the scene

Yep.

And the freaks who are there hesitate to let their freakiness come out because of the swarms of non-freaks ready to point and laugh.

I'm typing this as I listen to Phuture's 'Rise From Your Grave'. I think it fits this thread nicely

The thing about futurism for me was that the images conveyed by the artists were either very clean and idealic (Kraftwerk's 'Autobahn') or unrealistic (The Jetsons' view of the future might come true, but not in our lifetimes).

Like nefardec said, there's innovative stuff coming out, but we, the music consumers, are barraged with so much music that it is very easy for an innovative releases to be missed. Blame the lack of awareness on the saturation of the music market than on the producers that are doing something other than using presets to make their tunes.

Also, the innovations that I am hearing are not major ones like what happened in the early 90s, but minor nuances that are changing overtime. For example, thanks to the global culture that we now have, producers today can find many more sources for samples than they could even 10 years ago. Now instead of going to a physical record shop for ideas, one can access one of the many producers' groups and music communities on the net to find material. A good example of this emerged when Timbaland took a sample from a Finnish keytune producer and used the track as the undercurrent of a Nelly Furtado single:



Never mind the legal issues with this sampling, before this would have not been possible. Thanks to the internet keytune producers are able to join together and share their songs with each other, etc. Before, one with this obscure hobby might not have known where to go for help, or even if anyone else was doing this, with the exception of a visit to the Classic Gaming Expo. A kid with the brains to hack a NES sound chip into producing his/her own unique melodies would not have had a place to get help if something went horribly wrong...

And this is true for almsot every sub-culture that exists today. Furries, Sega Saturn enthusiasts, J-Pop fans , etc all have access to each other, allowing for a greater proliferation of ideas. Innovations are able to be spread to the rest of the community instead of being stuck in someone's home in Wisconsin.

The point is that there are tons of new outlets for creativity, new ideas waiting to be expanded upon, and new sources for musical inspiration. Why then are producers sticking to the tried-and-true formula for Electro House, or Breaks, or Minimal, or whatever, with only minor changes in these genres taking place?

Part of it comes from the desire to sell records, and that causes producers to be fearful of trying anything that is too far from the 'norm'. We live in a capitalist society and for many artists the influence of money holds a greater sway over their output than the desire to try something new.

Another part of it could amount to laziness. 'Why try something new when I already have this preset that the fans ate up last time?'

quote:

Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Seriously, though. How did furries find one another before there were Internet message boards and mailing lists?

They didn't. They would either keep it to themselves or commit suicide.

And this, people, is why the internet was such a terrible idea. It allows hardcore nerds, paedophiles, fat people, furries, cosplayers, bbw fetish and enthusiasts of every freak activity you can think of to congregate, organize, and convince themselves that they are normal, perfectly well adjusted people and the problem is that society simply doesn't understand them.

There's definitely some humor value in seeing it all happen, though.

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Originally posted by Ishkur They didn't. They would either keep it to themselves or commit suicide. And this, people, is why the internet was such a terrible idea. It allows hardcore nerds, paedophiles, fat people, furries, cosplayers, bbw fetish and enthusiasts of every freak activity you can think of to congregate, organize, and convince themselves that they are normal, perfectly well adjusted people and the problem is that society simply doesn't understand them.

Yeah, but with all of these 'undesirable' groups online there are also plenty of outlets for more 'normal' groups to communicate at the same time.

And just because you think they are wrong doesn't mean that they don't have the right to communicate in the same way that you or I do. Freedom of speech and the like...

I demand we ban Philip Sherburne from all forums.











































because we can't stop reading his stuff...

As much as it may seem like we've run into technological barriers in terms of sound design, when was the last time you heard a really stellar live act in 5.1?

If you would like proof that futurism is alive and well, simply turn to Montreal's own Nuclear Ramjet; an incredibly futuristic act if there ever were one.

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